Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: xyzcf on July 30, 2018, 07:42:21 PM
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Just a reminder that this is a discussion thread for people who have a Vanisher. As defined in RCR's articles:
Is my spouse dead? You may know they are alive and how they seem to be doing because of the grapevine, or you may not. This MLCer seems to drop off the earth. They may contact on occasion, but contact is rare.
Previous Thread:
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10256.msg680846#new
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Thanks xyzcf, I was just asking someone to start a new thread. ;D
I do think it's nice everyone has a "story" thread, even if they have a Vanisher and only want to post on this thread.
That is your right.
I don't have a Vanisher but I do read this thread off and on to see how everyone is doing. Plus it's good to get this information for all Moderators.
Your story thread just gives everyone some background on what has happened to you. Stats on your age, length of marriage, how many children, how did this all start with you....just your story.
I have a thread but RARELY update it for the same reason. There isn't much to tell anymore. But if someone wants to read my story, it's there.
Just a suggestion.
Thanks xyzcf.
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I update my thread but as I don’t post as much on it as I tend not to get many reply’s. Hmm light bulb moment! Post more May = more replies.
I think I may need to re read what I post before I save as I know what I mean but others may not.
It’s more I get sweet fa. I could be dead and a. He wouldn’t know and b. He probably wouldn’t care. I know he isn’t dead as passed him on the road the other day.
Thanks xyzcf
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My H is a vanisher. Don’t know where he lives or anything about his new life. Children get an email once a month but never tell me about it - they are adults. Only info I have been given is he is enjoying his new city and work.
Question for anyone with vanisher after divorce final plus 18 month. Does anything change - do they ‘want’ to touch base etc. Anyone got any idea what could be expected? Otherwise I guess I may never see him again after 34 years of (wonderful?) marriage?
No expectations, just after other experiences?? I’ve GAL, just discussing.
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Rising, just so you know, I do read your updates, I have since the beginning, I just don't always have anything useful to add. :)
Nothing wrong with posting on the Vanisher thread too.
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I update my thread but as I don’t post as much on it as I tend not to get many reply’s. Hmm light bulb moment! Post more May = more replies.
Rising - just letting you know that it's not unusual to post an update and have it read 75 times and maybe only get one or two responses. I don't post often on my thread and still find that there may be 100 reads but only a handful of responses. I think it's pretty typical that there are many more readers than there are writers.
Thunder - I always like to see you drop in on this thread! :D
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Question for anyone with vanisher after divorce final plus 18 month. Does anything change - do they ‘want’ to touch base etc. Anyone got any idea what could be expected? Otherwise I guess I may never see him again after 34 years of (wonderful?) marriage?
Yes, things tend to change, but may remain the same for a long time. Some MLCer do vanish for years and then, one day, they show up out of the blue.
18 months is not that much in MLC world. Hard to tell how things will go and when your husband will stop being such a vanisher.
You may see him again. Just don't know when.
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Aw thank you Still.
Sometimes it's the only way to follow some of the people I care about.
I try to be quiet though. :-X :)
I know having a Wallower it was much easier to relate to other Wallower's stories, so I'm glad someone started this thread for Vanisher's.
They are both a different breed.
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Thanks Anjae, yes early days I know, I can hardly remember what it was like being married to him. I feel like this new life is ‘me’ now. So so strange this world we find ourselves in. So much twilight zone (Limbo?).
Although I don’t post much I do hang out here probably too much. May have to try and limit the time....thanks.
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You're welcome, Ausgatorgirl
I feel like this new life is ‘me’ now.
For now, yes, this is your life. And all you can do is look after yourself.
So much twilight zone (Limbo?).
Twilight zone for sure. There will a limbo period for the LBS, but the MLCer and his/her crisis will remain Twilight zone.
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Sorry, just got sent an application to divorce in ‘joint’ mode. I’m in Australia. I have gone back to my lawyers and said ‘no, his divorce he can file solo’. Did I do the right thing? Australia. No children under 18 and financial split done.
Any advice? I don’t want to make it easy on him, not stalling,just principles.
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Hi Aust
Your decision..no right or wrong.. I too am in Australia... H took copy of marriage cert few weeks back to "move on with things"
He has mentioned D a few times but seems like he is going ahead...I have always told him that it is his Divorce and whilst I have no choice he can file solely (also told him to put adultery as reason) , as you know he does not need to put a reason but I needed to put across to him that his actions have led to his decision to D (whether that ever resonates with him who knows)
xx
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Thanks AB. We have NC so I don’t care what he puts. I guess it will be done and dusted by Christmas. Thanks.
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I have called The Leaver a vanisher since the beginning.
However, if I listed the contact I had with him, especially the first year, he would not seem like a vanisher to most people on here. For me, I wanted contact every day... he ignored messages, "Forgot" to go to scheduled meetings (including a divorce hearing) or just canceled meeting outright. I think he would have been a true vanisher if the courts didn't force him to show up. Things like my FIL's funeral, he had no choice. Oh he tried to ignore me, "didn't see me" ::),... same at my nephew's funeral, "didn't see me". "E" thought I might be exaggerating about The Leaver until he saw how I was treated at my nephew's funeral. No, I wasn't making it up, the interaction was weird. After the divorce was done, contact is about 2-3 times a year, usually b/c of finances.
I have many stories b/c it's been over five years so I just keep repeating the same stories... ;D ;D
Question for anyone with vanisher after divorce final plus 18 month. Does anything change - do they ‘want’ to touch base etc. Anyone got any idea what could be expected? Otherwise I guess I may never see him again after 34 years of (wonderful?) marriage?
No expectations, just after other experiences?? I’ve GAL, just discussing.
Not everyone agrees with this advise, so take it or throw it out. I have zero intentions of ever reconciling with The Leaver, I'm remarried to someone else and very happy with my life now. I do however, still reach out (rarely but I do), to my ex. Hey, we were "happily" married for over twenty-five years, we have two adult kids, many mutual friends and family, just b/c he went bonkers, doesn't mean I have to change who I am.
So, the first Christmas after he left, AND we were in the trenches of divorce, I sent him a photo album of his life. I was in a few pictures, since I was most of his life BUT mostly were of him, and many of him and the kids. He didn't respond after receiving it (I could tell by the delivery tracker), until I messaged him and then I got a "yes"... minutes later, "Thank you"... He was mad.
Too bad, I have no regrets sending it. I wouldn't be surprised if he still looks at it today.
Fast forward years later...
I sent another Christmas gift, a box of keepsakes, including something his grandmother made. He sent a nice note, "Thank you that was very thoughtful of you...etc"
We had a touch and go year three... too long to talk about here.
I often send him nice messages on his birthday and Father's Day. Sometimes he does the same back for Mother's Day or my birthday, sometimes he doesn't.
For me, it's not a contest about if he sends something back or if my contact makes a difference. I really no longer care if it makes a difference. It's about me, and who I am. I just seems right to me, so I do it.
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Thanks AB. We have NC so I don’t care what he puts. I guess it will be done and dusted by Christmas. Thanks.
I quite understand this!
Here in Brazil, it is also no fault - they just need for each one to go the registrar's office and sign.
As my h. is not really a vanisher, more like an on and offer and avoider, we met there together, but he did the legwork and paid for it. We had no assets to discuss, nor underage children so it was sordidly simple - it is true there is no need to put a reason.
I sometimes think that if the children did not still reside with me, he would really disappear from my life. At the moment I don't see him at all - next Saturday is our middle son's 25th birthday and I shall be hosting a bbq, he has been invited - I have no idea if he will turn up, he didn't say whether he would come or not to the kids.
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My vanisher has vanished again after popping back up just to tell me my dog was sick (and then euthanizing the dog a few weeks later without even telling me). It was the first time I'd heard from him in an entire year.
Last year I got a text from H saying happy birthday from the dog. This year there is no dog to wish me a happy birthday, so of course this year I didn't hear from him - since H can't wish me happy birthday himself or the streets will erupt in fire and brimstone. ::) (Not to mention he can't text me because he cut off that avenue of communication when he didn't give me his new phone number.)
And it's been 3 weeks since I reached out via Facebook messenger and asked him to send me the dog's collar. He was completely agreeable and even offered to send me the ashes too if I wanted. But I haven't received anything and probably won't. I don't buy that he forgot. I think when I first contacted him and asked, he went into "please don't be mad at me, mommy" mode, but then as soon as that communication ended the mental gymnastics started and he is still somehow "punishing" me by keeping something he knows I want.
I won't be contacting him again to ask for it. I won't beg. Nor will I contact him again because it's clear that he's back to "erasing" me.
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Nas, this is totally up to you but I many times sent a follow up “reminder” of unkept promises. Yes, 90% of the time I got an “I forgot” and in the early days a more snarky, “I was busy” but the second “Reminder” almost always got a response.
What do you have to lose?
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I thought about it, Nah, but I have this nagging feeling it's a control issue with him. I used to contact him periodically to ask him to honor the financial agreement (he never did and it pretty much amounted to me "begging" him for something and him having full power and control by not giving it to me) and then when I got cancer, I stopped contacting him for that and so I basically stopped contacting him as I didn't have any other reason to.
He mirrored me by stopping contact. (And then of course infamously getting a new phone number and not even telling me.) I don't think for one second that he forgot that I asked for the collar or forgot that he said he'd send it. I have this suspicion that since I no longer contact him about the financial stuff, he's holding onto the dog's collar because it will make me have to contact him and ask for something I want that he has.
I don't want to fall back into that pattern. I'll make do with my pictures and great memories of the dog. If someday he finds it i his heart to send me the collar, it will be nice to have it. But I'm not going to allow it to become another thing that allows H to try cling to control.
Funny, last week he "liked" a tweet by a pro golfer who wrote "Super proud of my wife" and went on to praise her for her 2 years of sobriety and her new blog where she shares her story to help others. It ended with the hashtag #proudhusband.
How he doesn't see the irony in that is beyond me. I'm here fighting tooth and nail against cancer, barely able to function, hardly working, financially drowning, but still fundraising when I can to help raise money for both cancer research and patient programs. Where's my #proudhusband? Off living with OW and pretending I don't exist. >:(
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Pfft.. who knows what goes on in their stupid heads.
I read very early on that they regress to being teenagers and a lightbulb went off in my head. Hey, I’ve raised several teenagers/children and I know exactly how to communicate with them. I put my theory to the test. I sent a message to The Leaver and gave him 3 choices (sell the house, him move in, me keep it with alimony) hey it always worked with the kids. lol and behold, it worked. He picked one. I did it again, again he picked a choice. I would have my coworkers crowd around,... watch, he’s going to pick a choice. They didn’t believe me.
And he did it, again.
I’m not sure exactly why it worked, maybe they can no longer think for themselves but the “pick 1 of 3” was a big factor of how I got the house.
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Mine pretty much vanished in order to avoid the subject of the divorce, but if he did, I might try that "pick 1 of 3" approach.
He's definitely regressed and is defiantly refusing to interact with me. But then, as you saw with the brief interaction after the dog died, he was agreeable and seemed almost like he wanted to say whatever he needed to say to "please" me: "Yes, I will absolutely send you the collar. I paid extra to get his ashes but you can have them too if you want. Can you tell me how treatment is going?" Along with adding in a whole lot of completely unnecessary (and fabricated) details/excuses to try to explain away his cruel choice of announcing the dog's death on Facebook before telling me. Then he disappeared again and we're back to square one.
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I hear ya, all MLCers are cowards but the vanishers are the biggest cowards of them all.
Mine is similar to yours. Face to face, messages, phone calls, they don’t happen often but when they do, he usually talks a good game. Mine was never violent, never called me nasty names, no major accusations other than making him feel guilty or making everybody hate him ::)
He just rarely follows through on his promises, we were supposed to have meetings - never happened, he was supposed to help me with the house - didn’t, if he sees me in public, he will do his best to pretend he doesn’t see me.
How did these once strong, caring, powerful men become such wusses?
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How did these once strong, caring, powerful men become such wusses?
Beats the heck out of me. It's so baffling.
I feel like the stars are aligning to make H's new life work out, especially in the area of his new career that is going so well. The way your exH saw his career crash and burn didn't make a difference to his MLC, but I hate to say it, I kind of would like to see something go very wrong for H so that it feels like he's seeing some kind of consequences for his actions. Right now all signs are telling him he did the right thing because things are working out for him. I think his "vanishing" is probably due to his feeling guilty that his life is on an upward trajectory while I got cancer and lost everything. He'd rather not "see" me or think of me and continue on with his life and hope that someday the guilt will just subside.
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Just thought I’d pop on the new thread with a vey important Vanisher update:
//—**** Crickets ****—\\
LOL - I swear that’s how it is with a V
Sorry Nas, unfortunately I’m not surprised to hear your Vanisher crawled back behind the woodwork as it seems he did. I honestly think yours is running away from facing his D because that would cost him money and he can avoid going there.
Vanishers really are cowards and wusses...
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It's definitely to avoid the cost of a D, even though it wouldn't really cost much. We have no assets and nothing to divide. All I'd be getting from him is one retirement fund, which isn't worth all that much anyway. So it would cost him the filing fees and some court fees and the cost to transfer the fund to my name. So not all that expensive to end a marriage he has no interest in, and yet he still avoids it. Goes to show how incredibly cheap he is.
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It's definitely to avoid the cost of a D,
Possibly... but your trying to use logic to find a reason. Rarely is any of this logical.
I still go with the coward/wuss theory.
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I hear ya, all MLCers are cowards but the vanishers are the biggest cowards of them all.
Maybe. But vanishers surely are better than having a über clinger around. Mr J was an ultra clinger when he left and until I come back home, then he was a super clinger for like more 18 months or so, then still remained a bit glued. It was impossible to have peace.
Even his crazy divorce court cases meant he wanted to be attached and fight = drawing my attention. Sadly for him, there was no fight and his court cases were closed. I made him vanish, bu cuttting contact, an I don't regret him. Were it up to him, he would still be cake eating and clinging.
Nas, maybe your husband just forgot. They do tottaly forget things I would try once more. In a week or so.
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I have to say Nas, I kind of agree with Anjae.
If it truly means a lot to you to have your dogs collar, why not remind him that you are looking forward to getting it? Who cares what he thinks? It doesn't matter anymore.
He took your beloved dog away from you, the least he can do is give you something to remember him by.
I saved the collars but the tags meant more to me. I still wear them on a chain around my neck.
The collars I keep with their pictures in a frame.
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Hi all,
Always glad to hang out with my fellow LBS of Vs! I don’t post on my thread because it’s bern so long that I have had anything to tell about my V. We have virtually no contact in two years. With that said to answer Agirl my vote is to leave them alone and live like they are never coming back. They simply aren’t the person we once loved anymore as hard as that is to believe and accept. Sending you a wish a peace and endurance.
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Nas, first I'm sorry you are going through such a battle with your cancer right now on top of this MLC crap. I send you lots of strength and hugs to help you push on through your grueling treatment. It's just not fair.
Regarding your doggie's collar. We kept our previous dog's collar and I know how much we want to have something that was on them. I'm with Thunder on this one. If you want the collar, contact your H. It doesn't really matter in the end if he won the control issue this time. Controlling us, and the kids if they have them, is what they do. It's irritating, but totally stupid of them.
I've forgotten, when your H asked how your treatment is going, did you answer him? I know he didn't word in the best way, but I sense he was trying. It's always up to you of course, but if you are standing and your H does try to communicate, even if in a childish way, I would communicate back otherwise he feels judged (and rightly so!), however judgement and guilt makes them withdraw. If he felt comfortable with your answer, he might try it again.
If you want him to stay vanished so you can erase him from your mind, then absolutely don't contact him about anything.
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My H isn't a vanisher by the definition RCR gives, although he has certainly become more of one over the past two years. The kids hear from him once every couple of months, otherwise there is no contact.
I was just going to say that throughout this mess every now and again I would get "nice" texts or something, sometimes he even asked about how certain things were with me (health, relatives, etc.); I would respond thinking he was reaching out, but he always then ran again.
My own take is that he does things like that when he is either feeling guilty about something or thinks he "should", then completely forgets when his own life takes over again. I got the feeling that he thought he was being polite and "behaving how one should in these situations", but always at more than arm's length - the way you might with a distant cousin or so former university acquaintance.
He no longer contacts me at all; he now does that to the kids -- random texts every few months, the cynic in me says that he does this so that he can say "well, I tried, but they don't respond", in response to queries about his relationship with them.
As to asking for something; I agree that if it is important then ask, without any expectations. I have done so in the past, I've usually got what I've asked for (the request was always very specific, no embellishments or chit-chat), but there have been plenty of times when I've decided that it wasn't worth the contact and just not asked.
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I've forgotten, when your H asked how your treatment is going, did you answer him? I know he didn't word in the best way, but I sense he was trying. It's always up to you of course, but if you are standing and your H does try to communicate, even if in a childish way, I would communicate back otherwise he feels judged (and rightly so!), however judgement and guilt makes them withdraw. If he felt comfortable with your answer, he might try it again.
This was how the communication went:
H: Didn't know you were still at [brother's]
Me: Not by choice. I'm on my like 10 millionth round of chemo.
Me: Maybe 11 millionth. I've lost count. ha
H: I'm sure. Will you tell me how it is going, what they are saying...anything?
Me: It's not good right now. That's why I don't say anything.
Me: I had testing all day today. We had to stop treatment again this week
H: :( I'm sorry, N.
I didn't respond.
45 minutes later
H: Keep fighting!
I replied two hours later
Me: Trying
H: I have no doubt!
And that's how it ended and he vanished again.
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He's not going to get rid of the collar, and you have texts where he has committed to sending it, so another option is to request it in the divorce based on him already saying he would send it. A court order would motivate him. It's what I've done with the guitar issue in my own settlement agreement, because otherwise, I'm going to get promises unfulfilled forever.
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Nas I cud be wrong but to me I would love will you keep me informed.
Again I cud be wrong as I’m uaually wrong in my own situation but I see a possible open door to communication. Perhaps this is the opportunity to continue to let him know how your treatment is going and see what comes back.
These men are stupid and sometimes we have to lead them to the water. That’s what I interpret but you know him better than anyone plus it is also how you feel emotionally as to the best way forward . Xx
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Good idea, Ready. I'll definitely be sure to write it into the agreement when I can finally afford to revisit the divorce stuff.
They really are foolish. He offered me the ashes, the leash, toys, everything under the sun, and for a five-second period of time he probably meant it and was sincere, but then, poof, gone again.
Nas I cud be wrong but to me I would love will you keep me informed.
It would be something if he wanted to be kept informed, but that's not what he asked. He just asked if I would tell him something about the situation at that moment.
To be honest, even if he asked me to keep him updated going forward, I wouldn't. I'd say no because he can't live with OW, live a completely new separate life that doesn't include me and expect me to do any work to send him updates and keep him in the loop on my life. The only acceptable action would be if he just checked in periodically of his own accord, without any prodding from me or anyone else, and inquired how I'm doing.
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Good idea, Ready. I'll definitely be sure to write it into the agreement when I can finally afford to revisit the divorce stuff.
They really are foolish. He offered me the ashes, the leash, toys, everything under the sun, and for a five-second period of time he probably meant it and was sincere, but then, poof, gone again.
Nas I cud be wrong but to me I would love will you keep me informed.
It would be something if he wanted to be kept informed, but that's not what he asked. He just asked if I would tell him something about the situation at that moment.
To be honest, even if he asked me to keep him updated going forward, I wouldn't. I'd say no because he can't live with OW, live a completely new separate life that doesn't include me and expect me to do any work to send him updates and keep him in the loop on my life. The only acceptable action would be if he just checked in periodically of his own accord, without any prodding from me or anyone else, and inquired how I'm doing.
Boom. You got this.
(https://i.gifer.com/B3Ob.gif)
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Clanishers of the Vanishers... ;)
We get so little from them,... sometimes nothing at all, but if they do give us a tiny little speck,
Are we guilty of overanalyzing that speck to death?
Years ago The Leaver wrote to me (buried in other things b/c we were texting back and forth about financials) that I was "lucky to enjoy the fruits of his labor"...
That tiny little comment drove me mad for years... I'm not kidding, for years. We BOTH worked our @sses off, he was just as lucky, if not more lucky, to enjoy the fruits of my labor. That d!ck, I churned around night over night monkey-braining for years over that one tiny comment. Now, if we were still married, and he made a bone-head comment (as spouses tend to do), I would have sulked for a bit, then I would have brought it up. We would have discussed it and it would end up being forgotten as a momentary lapse of judgement.
Since he is gone, I just sat and sulked, and sulked, and sulked... and never got the opportunity to discuss. Who was that hurting?
So, finally years later, with that comment sitting inside me like a lead weight,... we finally had a talk. That one talk on the phone I always discuss on here (you know, him feeling like he is living someone else's life and vomiting every morning), before his confession, I brought up the comment he made years ago about me being lucky to enjoy the fruits of his labor....
Silence on the other end, finally...
"I said that?"
Ugh... he didn't even remember writing those words? Of course he didn't. Like I said, those words were buried in a heated discussion about who was going to pay for the kids phones, or something like that. You know what? I don't even remember one tiny bit of what we discussed that day except that one comment. It's not a "fog", it's just the normal way the brain works, we only remember what is important to us. It was an off the cuff comment that meant nothing to him and everything to me.
So I replied...
"Yes, I remember word for word like it was yesterday"
He apologized,...
"If you said I wrote that, then I believe you, I'm sorry... You always worked very hard and we were all lucky to have you."
Sometimes they say things they don't mean and we let it eat at us... for years.
Why do we waste so much time worrying about what THEY think? I knew I worked hard, I knew my worth. Yet I let that one comment eat away at me. What a waste of lost sleep.
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I know for me, I over-analyze because I feel like such a colossal failure, so I go over and over not just his words, but everything - everything he said, everything I said, every choice I made, every choice I didn't make.
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Me too nas. They say it takes half the time you with with someone to get over them. Wtf I have 11 yrs left!! 😂😂
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Nah that was a lovely post. The stage I’m in now is I don’t want to give him anymore head space but to learn from this awful situation I find myself in. Living in the "how the heck did I not see this coming and how the heck do I quit being tied emotionally to the fallout????”
My hope staying with this illustrious group of Clan of the Van is for helpful hints on how to let go of this very sticky hurt that broke my heart! 🤗
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For me I find I think about it all as soon as I wake up, it’s on my mind when I go to bed. I have conversation in my head that I would like ranging from why, to you low life piece of sh!te. I think about it all at lunch times and after tea when the kids are upstairs. The only reason it’s out of my head at work is that I’m too busy.
In the uk I’m watxhing a programme called faith whose husband has vanished, not for mlc but you see the carrying on and then the sudden crying after bomb drop. At one point the main character was staring in to space and my daughter said you do that mum.
It’s when you pack a lunch and it falls out the fridge all over the floor and you burst into tears thinking how did my life become this.
I find anger days better as I get on with my life as some days the motivation to do things just isn’t there. Xx
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Me too nas. They say it takes half the time you with with someone to get over them. Wtf I have 11 yrs left!! 😂😂
Aw Man, that was another thing I spent hours and hours and hours researching... timelines and statistics.
Mostly MLC timelines,... just how long was it going to take for him to "wake up"? And what are the statistics of how many come back? (hint.., there are no reliable statistics, believe me, I checked a million times). And how long until I didn't feel like a brick was sitting inside my chest? How long until I can breath normally again, or go to the grocery store without fear of another panic attack?
Timelines and statistics are sh!t b/c nothing out there was about me (or him), it's really just an individual thing.
You know what still bugs me? All the inspirational quotes about it being our choice to be happy. Sure, it is our choice BUT.... give me a break.
Those "it's a choice to be happy" quotes are missing years of what it takes to get there after a major blow to our lives. I say,...
It's okay to spend some time wallowing, it's normal, it's a process, and if you skip it, it will come back to bite you later.
It's okay to kick, scream, cry, punch, get drunk, curl up on the floor and curse the world, again and again and again, until you exhausted yourself. Rest up a bit, and then do it again a million times.
It's not normal to just shrug your shoulders and "get over it" over night.
That's what the vanishers seem to do, they just shrug their shoulders and start a shiny new life overnight, right?
Is that normal? Is that what we want for ourselves?
Pfft... I would rather go through Hell now and get to the other side, instead of ignoring what happened and waiting for it to hit me like a sledgehammer later.
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I love reading your posts nah, you always make so much sense xx
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Thanks RP, but it’s just bc I’ve been through it.
It’s easier as time passes.
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I love reading your posts nah, you always make so much sense xx
I totally agree.
And, as you said in your earlier thread here nah, I also used to lose sleep over what he has said to me any time there was contact. Any words from H would send me railing and I would monkey brain, make up my own stories about what he said, change it up, down, sideways, tear apart what he said bit by bit to analyze each syllable. It was maddening......
Thank god I don't do that anymore. Contact from him still gives my gut a bit of a turn, but not like it used to. And I'm learning to not take anything personally and not go off writing my own novel about what he said. LOL.
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I don't analyze what he says now, but I'm still working on analyzing the garbage that was spewed at and just after BD, all the terrible things he said to and about me to justify his despicable behavior. All the things he said to cut me down that he must have known were just the exact right things to say to hit me right in all my insecurities, because he knew them all.
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Another great description of what the pain is like that we went through Nah! Thanks for putting that in words. One of the biggest struggles I still deal with is the timeline. Almost every step of the first stages went exactly as the timeline anticipated. I thought well after replay of a couple of years there might be some change. After all so far MLC stayed on script. But in reading all the other threads and posts it does not seem the timeline stays on script. Very few reconcile. Mostly it’s just how the lbs coped and regrouped. Like Nah says choosing to be happy is a very tough road!!!! What you all think about the stages after replay?
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It is true it is our choice to be happy. It is also true it requires years of training, unless we have always been the no worries happy-go-lucky type. And even if we were, a blow like BD/MLC may set us back.
Meditation helps a lot. Again, meditation is a process and a progress. We are not buddhist monks training since we're children or in our early teens. Our lives are very different from buddhist monks ones, so, another hurdle to overcome. And buddhist monks have years, if not decades, of training.
But it is possible to reach a state of happiness after this mess. It will take time, a lot of time. There will be setbacks. Even when we get there, there will be less good days - the trick is to know the bad day(s)/moment is temporary and just ride it.
Get over it over night would be damaging. It wouldn't allow for proper growth and healing.
I no longer analyze anything. I did it long ago and it all happened in another lifetime.
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Tripped over this https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/whats-the-craic-with-ghosting-and-no-its-not-the-same-as-no-contact/
seems to me to be a pretty good Vanishing 101 reminder
including the core message that this was never about us and says nothing useful about us
any of this sound familiar with your spouse pre-BD or post?
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Very good reminder Treasur.....and yes all too familiar.
The bit about being tested by the ghoster without knowing we were....not sure I was being subjected to that BUT Thunder posts her MLCer did that to her.
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Wow. good article Treasur. About sums it up for a vanisher.
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No, nothing is that ghosting has to do with pre-BD Mr J or Mr J for a good while after BD. He used to be a total clinger.
Also, he didn't dissapear. Even if I don't agree with his reasons for leaving, he said he was going to leave and gave reasons for it.
Which I suspect is what many, if not most MLCer do, they give reasons for leaving/end the marriage-relationship. The reason may be silly, but most MLCers don't tend to simply dissapear. If they did, there would be no BD.
BD implies that someone was BDed, things were said, the person said they wanted out.
MLC is not like a normal relationship breakup. Real MLCer vanishers aren't ghosters. Apply behaviours from non MLC situations to MLC doesn't make much sense. Vanisher really don't contact or barely do, say, once a year, or something of the sort.
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I agree that most 'vanishers' don't completely vanish...but in my situation, my xh did ghost me (and everyone else) for months at a time. My BD came in 2 bits...the first was hidden by 'I'm depressed and numb and suicidal so can't talk to you or come home but please don't give up on me', but it took him about 4 months to go to ghost....then he popped up with 'i want to work on us, ILY' which turned in two months to the second BD 'divorce is the only option'...and then he ghosted me for months, presumably also to focus on ow. Tbh, even when he did 'talk' in those first few months, he said nothing really but 'I can't talk/come home'...so he was an internal ghost even if he was sat in front of me ::)...and of course I was reeling in shock and probably a bit loopy too!
I have never had any explanation or cause given from him, even a monster one LOL, and he was denying the existence of ow as a 'real relationship' to me and even his own L right up until he married her pretty much. I always felt that part of his refusal to see me or talk was that he simply didn't want to see my pain or feel his own. Much easier to just run. And it has always seemed logical to me that if he kept running, and that his m was probably part of that, he would never stop and deal with his 'demons' as he once called them.
But hey, that is his choice and it's his life and no longer my business.
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... the first was hidden by 'I'm depressed and numb and suicidal so can't talk to you or come home but please don't give up on me'
He told you how he felt at the time, people who ghost do not. Even asked to not give up on him.
i want to work on us, ILY' which turned in two months to the second BD 'divorce is the only option'...and then he ghosted me for months, presumably also to focus on ow. Tbh, even when he did 'talk' in those first few months, he said nothing really but 'I can't talk/come home'...
He was telling you something. A lot, in fact. That he was depressed and incapable of talk/come home. That is a reason, isn't it? He couldn't talk/come home. As for divorce being the only option, well, that is MLC thinking. But, would it have been better to have a live-in MLCer? I don't think so.
Ghosting tends to be a term used by teens and on dating advice about how some men (well, women as well) act while dating. I think what MLCers do is different and has to do with their crisis, it is not their normal way of dealing with things.
Much easier to just run.
Maybe be. Maybe not. Until we'll be on their shoes we can't know (aside from those of us that have been there).
And it has always seemed logical to me that if he kept running, and that his m was probably part of that, he would never stop and deal with his 'demons' as he once called them.
If that was/is true no MLCer would ever come out of crisis and returned. And they do. We have reconnected and reconciled people here.
We all tend to think that our MLCer will be different than all other MLCers and will be the one out of crisis sonn, but also that we have the one MLCer who will not deal with his/her issues.
LBS often want MLCers that don't want/aren't ready/can't talk to talk. Or to do things they aren't ready to do. And sometimes we forget that the thing is let them go, there is nothing that can be done and MLC take time. A lot of time.
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I suppose the simple truth Anjae is to accept that we simply don't know and time will tell. and many of us will never know because we won't see them again
but
there are some who seem to never really come though the process or decide that their new life/self is better for them or perhaps just too much damage to even bear to look at or choices like remarriage or new kids which can't be undone
imho, and I truly didn't want to accept this as a newbie, the odds are not good for any kind of reconciliation or 'normal' straightforward life shared with our spouses again, no matter the time it takes. just my perspective.
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I suppose the simple truth Anjae is to accept that we simply don't know and time will tell. and many of us will never know because we won't see them again
but
there are some who seem to never really come though the process or decide that their new life/self is better for them or perhaps just too much damage to even bear to look at or choices like remarriage or new kids which can't be undone
imho, and I truly didn't want to accept this as a newbie, the odds are not good for any kind of reconciliation or 'normal' straightforward life shared with our spouses again, no matter the time it takes. just my perspective.
I agree Treasur. We can compare ghost to vanisher, but in the end they disappeared without proper closure. Most everything in that article was spot on for my H. Avoiding the conflict and even the testing part. And the "not being able to look at themselves" is a big part of this. Carrying on as if things are all resolved and tidied up -- when they are not. I printed the article. Thank you for sharing.
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Well, I've never said I was ghosted or that I have a vanisher, but a lot of what was written there very accurately reflects what happened to me -- such as the tests that I was set that I didn't know I was taking, such as telling me things were OK when they weren't, and the general just not dealing with things. And punishing me for how he was feeling.
It makes "sense" that if they don't deal with feelings, those feelings can't be hurt. And the bit where it says "they don't want to hurt their own feelings" while saying they don't want to hurt ours very much resonated as well.
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Which I suspect is what many, if not most MLCer do, they give reasons for leaving/end the marriage-relationship. The reason may be silly, but most MLCers don't tend to simply dissapear. If they did, there would be no BD.
I'm not sure if I ever read this from anyone else, but The Leaver never said I was the problem.
BD lasted about 2 minutes...
BFL: "you know this year wasn't good"
Me: "you mean our medical problems?"
BFL: "I met someone"
Me: "Did you have sex with her?"
BFL: "Yes"
Me: "Do you want a divorce"
BFL: "Yes"
That was it... then he left.
He met with me the next day (guilted by friends). He still never said a bad thing about me, mostly sat there when I vented. Sure he protected her but never said anything bad about me or our marriage.
Later I vented by letter... again, if anything he complimented me,... said I was a good wife and mother, that he hoped I would someday forgive him. Said that he often boasted to others about me and my accomplishments, yet he still ran.
Five years, the worst he said was things like, "Nah and I were on a separate page". His biggest lies were minor like I didn't believe in counseling (he never asked),... or that he was lonely when I worked or missed when the kids were little.
Still, never really gave a reason other than HE changed.... that's it.
I guess that's still a reason but it doesn't seem too different than ghosting to me.
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I don't remember when BD was. I always use the day Mr J left. BD was months before, end of June 2006 or early July 2006. He took months to leave, months to say he was going to leave. He oscillated between super nice, buying me fabulous skirts, dresses and shoes and super angry and agressive.
March 2006 he had said he was depressed, and the depression only got worst with the djing, drinking and lack of sleep.
Still, never really gave a reason other than HE changed.... that's it.
That is still a reason. And true. He changed, didn't he?
Mr J reasons were: a) "you're more intelligent than I am", b) "it is impossible to win an argument with you", c) "you don't have feelings because you never cry at funerals".
a) is true and was 20 years before. b) is almost true and was 20 years before. c) it is true I don't cry at funerals, but, in 2006, I had only attended one funeral and Mr J was not present. I do have feelings.
I associate ghosting with adolescent dating or dramatic adult dating by non MLCers. MLC is a specific thing. Anyway, if I broke with someone I probably would only have said, it is over and that was it. Not everyone is into explanations. It does not mean ghosting to me, just that it is over. Period.
Why people want explanations from someone - other than a MCLer - that tells them it is over is something I don't understand. Over is over.
As for closure. Closure was something I had never heard of before I start to read American newpapers/foruns. It is not something that was a thing here. Now I think some therapists used it, but it is not something that has meaning for a Portuguse my age.
And I know what ghosting is because I read American and English newspapers/site. Otherwise I would have no idea. Many terms and concepts used here are not common to a Portuguse.
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Hmmm
Being married to someone and invested in a family life, then to have a spouse say "I'm done" or "It's over" with very little explanation or working through a process to come to similar terms together before "moving on down the road" is no less than a $h!te sandwich.
If this was a college dating scene, I might not expect more, but in a marriage, for me there is a deeper commitment and a deeper responsibility to the other (half) being tossed to the curb. Damn straight I want and deserve a firetrucking explanation.
And if a spouse walks out the door, disappears, vanishes, very little or no comment, MLC or not, that is BD.
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What exactly should the explanation be? I no longer love you? I love you but don't want to be married to you anymore? I truly wonder what explanations are, or aren't acceptable - I am not talking MLC.
Work on things... going by the lack of success of marital counseling, that often only speeds divoce and leaves the spouses feeling more resetment towards each other, I am not sure that is such a good idea.
I was totally willing to work things out with Mr J even after OW1 was made public. I loved him and, there had been a 20 years investement and we had shared interests. But if I no longer loved him/see him as interesting, problems were keep increasing, things had been tried and didn't work, I would not be interested in doing anything more to work anything out. Sometimes there is nothing to work out. Things just end.
And if a spouse walks out the door, disappears, vanishes, very little or no comment, MLC or not, that is BD.
Walk out of the door, disappears, vanishes can be BD. Very little comment not really. Also, in non-MLC situations the other spouse is usually very aware things aren't well. That is why those marriages tend to end in mutaul divorce and those divorces are easier than MLC ones.
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Very little comment does (really) happen. I KNOW first hand. A 2-sentence note followed up by a 45 minute proclamation by my husband using BLAME to explain away his reasons for being "done" leaves me either agreeing with him or feeling the way I do feel in that a marriage should never end this way. MLC or not.
As I never dealt with a "clinger", I don't buy into the not really story. People who do not experience vanishers do not truly know the details of being shunned as such. Never have walked in my shoes, so I get that.
Working together through a marital break up is a valid option for most mature adults.
Oh well, to each their own.
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I have a vanihser. I didn't at BD 12 years ago, but I have had one for many years. It turned into a blessing. The clinger was insane. With a vanisher there is peace.
If there is a break up there is nothing to work out, is there? The work should be/must be done before to prevent reaching break up (again, I am not talking about MLC). Most non-MLC couples I know who divorced just agreed it was time to divorce and did it. They didn't went throught the crazy we deal with. I don't recall any explanations given by said couples, just that they had divorced.
Maybe here we just go for the divorce and don't use explanations much. I was totally surprised when a male friend that has been in therapy asked me "so, he didn't had a final talk with you?" I say, no. Friend told me he learned how to do the final talk in therapy and told me how it was. I just thought to myself "I don't have any patience for that thing, just say it at once and be done".
The boyfriend I had years ago once said "we need to talk", I was like what? No, he was not braking up with me, but "we need to talk" here is stuff from films. Or therapy. Or something men learned women want to hear. Except I don't like the "we need to talk" and have never said it to anyone I was in a relationship with.
Probably the problem is that, unlike most women, I don't care much for words or explanations, I care for actions. And all the advice of how to talk to a woman usually just bores me because men do it in a silly tone of voice used to such purpose that I find condescending. Real Mr J never did it. But we're all different.
I've always said that if there has been a non-MLC affair I wouldn't end 20 years because of it, providing it was short lived. The wife and mistress for life thing is not for me.
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Hope you guys don't mind a question here. I don't know if I now have a vanisher or one in a pretty profound withdrawal. More curiosity than anything.
I'm about 2 years and 8 mos from the big BD. Kicked him out almost 2 years ago. Beginning last September I began to notice withdrawal. About the same time he stopped seeing the kids he started texting them almost every night (mental health stuff on FOO issues, music he knows I like, comedians I like, news items he thinks the kids might be interested in, good nights, I love yous, I miss yous, etc). He had been doing it more intermittently before that and often skipped weeks at a time (they don't respond). He generally doesn't call them. Around the same time he stopped communicating with me altogther. Since December he will not contact me. If I contact him about an emergency with the kids he will respond if I ask him to, usually pretty promptly. If I tell him something that I'm just telling him to CMA, like a big expense or an injury to one of the kids, he will ignore me completely or respond only to the kids. He initiates no communication with me at all at this point.
He demanded a separation agreement right after I kicked him out and then wouldn't sign it or tell me what he doesn't like about it. He kept threatening divorce and I kept telling him to do it. I think his OW2 finally pushed him to file around the time I was really trying to get him to do it (sick of limbo, he was playing with money, etc). Since filing he has done NOTHING to move his case forward (I've tried to move it along, my attorney has tried, no dice). He's still paying though (and now an automatic order triggered by his filing requires him to do so). Still texting the child who hasn't blocked him pretty much every day and still paying. He never asks to see the kids. Has not seen or talked to one in a year and has seen the other only for an hour or two twice this year. The other day he called the one who blocked him from a work number that wasn't blocked multiple times and he texted the one who did not block him 8 times in a row.
Can't figure out if he wants a relationship with the kids, is just trying to keep us all as a Plan B, or just can't make any decisions or move in any direction. Apologize for not posting on my own thread, but trying to lay a little low. While I don't think he'd search for me, I get the feeling his OW2 might.
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You seem to have a strange mix of vanisher with texting (and calling) clinger towards the kids. He wants to be in contact with the kids since he text and calls, or tries to.
Other than he wanting to keep in contact with the kids, even if not seeing them, is hard to say what else is going on. 2 years and 8 months is not much in MLC land, but he probably is in a part of his crisis where movement is slow. And for decisions, he may find it difficult to make them.
The withdrawal you star to see last September may mean he was getting deeper into crisis. This become more foggy when they get deeper into MLC tunnel.
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Thanks Anjae, I think it is odd from what I've seen.
I think we are actually about 9 years in at this point. In late 2009 there was an EA which I discovered pretty quickly and gave him an ultimatum and he chose to stay (went underground of course). We plodded along with monster episodes every 3-6 months. In late 2013 I got the ILB speech. I didn't know it then but he was in a PA with OW1 that began then that I didn't learn about until January 2016. Once again he promised to end it, but you all know how that goes. That PA (almost 4 years at that point) was over within 2 months of me kicking him out. He circled in to home for a few months and then started the second PA with OW2 in March of last year.
He was a huge wallower and cake eater until I kicked him out twice in late 2016 at the request of my kids.
So what looks slow now is actually pretty fast compared to the first 7 years.
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Unraveled, I agree with Anjae's explanation. I believe your H is in the deeper part of the crisis. I believe mine is, too. Mine has behaved this past year just like yours, withdrawing completely from me, and withdrawing further from the kids, although he still texts one regularly (the one on his side), one off and on with our boy, and the other one he never sees or communicates with. I think this is all part of their crisis. It's the slow phase, or the phase we can 'see' less from the outside, but I believe they are still working through their crisis as they need to do.
It could be they withdraw completely from us because we are the ones that they damaged the most, or the ones who make them feel worse. The kids they still manage to hold onto by a thread. It's as if they know they can't pretend to themselves that the kids never existed, although they're not in a mental place to be a parent.
Doesn't mean anything for us, though. I have no idea what they will be like in a year.
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I’m hoping it part of the process although a clinging boomerang till last yr h started to withdraw from the children almost immediately. He would only contact if ow wasn’t around. Since ultimatum from ow last yr we have had silence. Kids had Prob 4 texts in 12 mths. Saw them for a couple of weeks in May and June this yr but has cut contact with the kids again. H doesn’t reply to me even in an emergency.
Son was in Hosp and I emailed ( changed no and not allowed it, not even the kids allowed it) nothing! He eventually came to the Hosp and was monster.
Apparently he does different things now and is resigned to never seeing his kids ever again.
My mum says he will resent ow at some point for stopping him seeing his kids and he may, but it is still his choice to not see them.
I would say he is becoming a vanisher compared to what he was previously unraveled.
I suppose time will tell if he completely cuts of all contact with kids.
My h has cut off all his family and friends. Not a sole person in his world other than ow.
I wonder if this makes him happy as he says he is. Xx
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X has completely ignored my son, he once in awhile will msg my oldest daughter talking $h!te one time he msgd her out of nowhere and asked 'hows mums mental health' ??? the only one he msgs now or has any type of contact is my youngest I think so that he can be kept in the loop he always has been a stick his nose in everyones business type of loon, completely written my children off, I wonder if that has anything to do with his hag or is he just having so much fun in his life he's completely forgotten about my children ::)
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I wonder that too Chrissyah,
I believe he has no contact with me due to ow and that has an impact on his contact with our kids as I’m in the back ground.
Or his life is so fantastic with his doing different things that he really doesn’t give a sh**te! Xx
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Hello rising! x ran off divorced me and remarried I haven't seen him in 4yrs, he has gotten progressively worse, my daughter tells me he's worse than a teenager clearly lost the plot, very high energy, I don't think he will ever have the balls to ever face me again, not that I ever want to see him again, the hag he's with must be on the same level worse or just a desperate cow who couldn't find anything else willing to be with her, they've both found the prize ::)
Wonder if he ever does recover what his reaction will be ;D
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I believe he has no contact with me due to ow and that has an impact on his contact with our kids as I’m in the back ground.
Or his life is so fantastic with his doing different things that he really doesn’t give a sh**te! Xx
No kids here, RP, but exactly the same pattern on his new life...removed everyone pretty much including me. Even his recent wedding photos had not a single friend of his own, bar a couple of family members...all her friends and co-workers. Bit weird and sad at 40 to have no friends of your own and to have erased half of your own life as worthless...but not the case for me, if i had a party now it would be a mix of old and new. And not my problem.
my xh has no choice now because I've shut the door for my safety, but I think their contact style does change as a function of what else is going on in their life or head. My xh went from boomerang to vanisher, then a quick pop-up then back to vanisher, bit more monster on and off as the divorce progressed and now I presume his energy is invested in making his new life/wife worth blowing up his old one for. i suspect he is wearing his big happy mask as a newly-wed h and doing everything he can to forget he ever had a first wife or failed so spectacularly to keep his first set of vows or that he/it will be different now because a) it was all my fault and/or b) ow is his perfect soulmate of destiny so everything will work perfectly now...guess time will tell if he's right!
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Ow posted last yr in social media that a lot of negative comments and so they will make it work so they can put the middle finger up to everyone! Such a mature pleasant woman don’t you think? 🤮
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What I find hard is the silence, not even a can I see my kids or hi kids love you and miss you.
I would like an apology or something but I know that’s never going to happen. I suppose as they don’t see what they have done wrong.
You can’t get things moving as they only move along with what they want to move along with. They move on with divorce but not sorting the finances. They buy expensive motorbikes but can’t buy their kids a b day present.
I find a vanisher is so frustrating or is that just me. Xx
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RP, X got a settlement payout of $270K yet refused to pay for my daughters school fees she was told she's not allowed to go back until at least half the fees were paid yet he's taken his hag and himself overseas where he is atm, I had to scrape the money together along with the help of my brother.
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It’s unbelievable isn’t it how they can just say yep that’s my old obselite life and family that I don’t need or want anymore so I will just ignore them. Xx
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Chrissyah, it’s a struggle isn’t it for lbs. the mlcer walk away from responsibility and we then lbs are left struggling to pick up the pieces and keep on top of the responsibilities. I have school uniform to buy, xmas is round the corner, paying all the bills including h car payments as in my dads name.’
I also want to know why the really affair down ow ( I’m really trying not to call her names today as I am better than ow) feel they need to comment on how we raise our kids and how much is paid and when h gets to see his kids which is not at all as interference in her time with h which is 24/7.
Perhaps that a topic for a different thread.
Xx
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It’s unbelievable isn’t it how they can just say yep that’s my old obselite life and family that I don’t need or want anymore so I will just ignore them. Xx
It is, RP
But - and it's taken me a long time to get this - in some ways it is pretty simple
for vanishers and mostly vanishers, it just means that what they want to feel better is absolutely more important than the impact on anyone else or the practical consequences...pretty black and white really...and they choose not to be exposed to it by removing themselves
It is a very pure sort of 'Me, me, me' really.
It's just difficult for emotionally balanced adults to understand.
i think for those of us with mostly silent/disappearing spouses, our journey is less about the rollercoaster of monster and more about the push to accept that they have chosen to walk away and ignore us/kids/friends/old life when we can't conceive of how or why they would or imagine we could do it.
we get no answers or hints from them so it takes time to make or find our own
it isn't a measure of our worth even if it feels like it but more a measure of what is easier for them and their character
are they happy? well, i guess they must be happy enough if they stay on that path
and eventually, hard stumbling step at a time, we find a way to know in our guts that this says everything about who they are choosing to be and nothing at all about who we were or choose to be next
and when our peace and happy matters infinitely more than what the karma bus brings them perhaps, our own version of 'Me, me' maybe ;)
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Mind boggling how someone can just throw away their family find some hag and erase the past, is it a choice or is it a brain inbalance??? Ill never know, although I think the loon kinda feels some guilt why else would he keep in touch with my youngest? other than to catch up on gossip and what we're all doing.
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it isn't a measure of our worth even if it feels like it but more a measure of what is easier for them and their character
This should be on the top of every page of every vanisher thread.
It took me so long to understand exactly what Treasur wrote.
In the early days, I just didn't get it. On here there were so many clingers, boomerangs, or even wallowers that seemed to at least care enough to hesitate. Not mine. Even BD only lasted a minute or two and then he ran. I went to talk to him that night (he actually didn't even cancel his band the night of BD, that's how much he seemed to not care). That very night he didn't hesitate, not even a little.
EVERYBODY told me he would show up at my door in RL. On here? There was drama, drama, drama of everybody else's MLCer going back and forth. Why not mine? Was our marriage that big of a lie?
But then the old timers with every kind of MLCer says the same thing, "It's not about us or our marriage, it's about them."
It's that simple. Even the type of MLCer has nothing to do with us. The type of MLCer has nothing to do with our marriage. My MLCer even admitted and STILL admits that I was a great wife and mother, he never monstered about our past, so what gives?
It's easier for HIM not to look, so he doesn't, plain and simple. It's not that the clingers love their spouse's more, it's just it's easier for THEM to keep plan B close, that's it.
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this x a million :)
i think the reason this thread matters is because it's so easy to feel that we/our m weren't even worth a monster conversation or being a boomerang plan B or a guilty touch and go or a period of doubt.
nothing, or hardly nothing
no love or concern...but also no respect or acknowledgement or signs to read or odd behaviour to watch...just a void that we try to fill in by connecting invisible dots for a while
and that sucks and feels brutally painful and perplexing
we feel like an abandoned dog on the kerb or a small child for a while perhaps
it's a primeval kind of emotional abuse
but the simple truth is that in crisis they just do what feels easier for them
and people are different, crisis or not, so easy looks different too doesn't it?
and it's their life so i guess time will show whether easy=better for them or not
one could just as well make the rational argument that if it is easier for vanishers not to see our pain or the damage, it is because it is hard for them to see it...which means it distresses or bothers them somehow...which means in a weird way it does matter enough that it's easier for them to not do it :) weird encouraging thought for the day though fwiw
the one thing that is obvious with a vanisher is that running away is easier for them than dealing with things
and it isn't rational - unless you were the Scariest Spouse In The World - that their fear says anything useful about you at all.
Sort of Weird LBS Logic 101 LOL
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one could just as well make the rational argument that if it is easier for vanishers not to see our pain or the damage, it is because it is hard for them to see it...which means it distresses or bothers them somehow...which means in a weird way it does matter enough that it's easier for them to not do it :) weird encouraging thought for the day though fwiw
Yes, I get exactly what you are saying. I wrote something similar to that idea maybe about 10 threads back. I'm not sure everyone got what I was saying...lol. Like you said, weird LBS logic.
It's like two different guys runs over their own dog with their car, then quickly replaces dying dog with a puppy.
One guy drives by dying dog daily and pets it to ease his guilt,
the other avoids even driving down that street as it's easier to pretend it never happened.
Does the "petter" love his dying dog more or less than the avoider? Who knows? It wasn't about the feelings before, during or after crushing the dog, it's just about how to ease their own guilt about what they did.
And what about the puppy? Is the puppy better than the faithful dog that was crushed for no reason?
pfft... sure puppies are cute and fun, but all they do is sh!t everywhere and whine all night. ;D ;D
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H did say in the past it was easier at ow’s and quiet. Our kids are too noisy for him.
H now does fb when he was never interested and seems to be out a lot on his motorbike as ow has a motorbike. She learnt to ride a bike and started talking to him about it as a way to attract him I believe.
S15 checks up now and again via a friend as we are all blocked. Son found posts where h burnt his leg on his bike and a fellow biker posted hot stuff so h replied fighting them all off and ow replied fighting who off, have I got completion! No smiling emoji or laughing emoji. A fellow biker replied whoops and that ended the conversation. Ow may have been joking but it doesn’t look like it. There was also a pic where she was hanging into his arm and he just looked awkward. H also looked old and ill. Aged so much in 12 mths. Another biker page and h was tagged and he posted what a guy!
Seems that h is full of himself when never was before. Kids don’t discuss h much at all and say they have no father but I think that is the pain of being erased as they clearly like to try to see what he is up to. Well son does at least.
The abandonment seems to have spilled over into other aspects of the kids lives. D13 will get quite emotional and say that her friends have abandoned her and s15 is unhealthily attached to his girlfriend that if she doesn’t reply to a text he gets distraught and bombards her.
The after affects are massive. I wonder if kids of other vanishes experience this . Xx
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pfft... sure puppies are cute and fun, but all they do is sh!t everywhere and whine all night. ;D ;D
Thanks nah, that made me laugh 😂
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The after affects are massive. I wonder if kids of other vanishes experience this . Xx
My daughter vanished with my vanisher...
Both of our husbands will have to deal with the destruction they caused, even though the type of destruction is different. I couldn't change it, so I let go.
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That’s awful nah, did she believe the vanisher? Did she vanish from your other children’s lives aswell? Xx
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I had a clinging boomerang for 3 yrs so perhaps I was plan b till he didn’t need a plan b anymore.
Whatever the reason, I know it was not about me and as nah said I can’t change it so let go. I tried so many times to change it, to get him to take an interest in his kids. He said he cherishes them but a man that can not even wish them merry xmas does not cherish them enough or at least that how the kids see it.
I no longer try. It’s not worth the rejection. Xx
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It’s a long story but she left a year after him. I believe his entire family were a big influence. She used to be very close to my mother and several of her cousins. She may see them about 2/3xs a year now even though she lives about 10 min away.
Very rarely talks to her brother, he said 3 times in four years.
Son 25. Daughter 28.
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Wow, it is amazing how I can read this stuff with more clarity two years in. If I had read this at bd I wouldn't have been able to get it.
I watched a YouTube video last night with Tony Robbins and everything that was going on with this married couple resonated with me. The more he worked with them the more both of them realized that they each felt insignificant in their own way, although the h started the conversation. I would absolutely love to be able to send this to my xh so that he can see that everything that he was feeling I was actually feeling too but we could have worked it out.
The bottom line is, he didn't want to work it out. He found someone new and decided that what we had wasn't worth it and I guess we could never get to a place where it would be. So sad.
I don't think that I am ever going to heal from this. I have a new relationship now since February and I now realize that my own childhood issues have been suppressed for the length of my marriage and are now creeping up on me. Back to ic I go BC obviously I cannot have a healthy relationship if I don't get past this MLC and my own childhood issues :(
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one could just as well make the rational argument that if it is easier for vanishers not to see our pain or the damage, it is because it is hard for them to see it...which means it distresses or bothers them somehow...which means in a weird way it does matter enough that it's easier for them to not do it :) weird encouraging thought for the day though fwiw
It can be. Or it can be that real vanisher, the ones that really vanish, don't care. Or need to be away during their crisis. The good thing? With a vanisher we are spared the clinger and the clingy-boomerang drama.
Much better to have Mr J turned into a vanisher than when he was always around or in contatc. With him around/in contact there was no peace. There was zero I could do about his issues, so, I am much better without having to deal with him.
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Or it can be that real vanisher, the ones that really vanish, don't care.
IDK, I feel if the vanisher was "meh" they could at least respond to messages.
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I think it’s easier not to reply in case grief from ow. Everything for an easy life xx
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Or it can be that real vanisher, the ones that really vanish, don't care.
IDK, I feel if the vanisher was "meh" they could at least respond to messages.
Think about the people you backburner responding to, or completely blow off. That's how they feel about their longterm spouses now. If they don't have to do it, they won't.
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Or it can be that real vanisher, the ones that really vanish, don't care.
IDK, I feel if the vanisher was "meh" they could at least respond to messages.
Think about the people you backburner responding to, or completely blow off. That's how they feel about their longterm spouses now. If they don't have to do it, they won't.
That’s what I think. Complete apathy.
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Respond to messages? A real vanisher? With a real vanisher you will not know their phone number, e-mail, where they live, etc. There is no messages exchanging with a real vanisher. And why would there be? They vanish.
You are taking about on/off MLCers. However, the thing to understand, is that a MLCer wants to be left alone. And, lest get real, most people text too much and most messages aren't necessary.
I don't like texting and do it as little as possible. It is intrusive and annoying. I doubt I will ever be much of a texter and I certainly will not go back to post-BD type of texting, that was still reduced by most people levels.
Not sure if it is apathy. I can think of myself. It I want to be left alone, I want to be left alone. I don't want to be texted. Lets be real, most texting is useless. There were no mobiles and no texting when we go together with our MLCer. We didn't need texting nor to always be in contact like now and life worked fine.
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I’m talking about messaging them regarding finances or divorce or issues with children. They don’t reply to even the most important of messages.
The few times that there have been people in my life that I have felt completely apathetic to, where I don’t dislike them or hate them but just feel nothing about them at all, I would completely ignore them no matter what the messages. For as long as possible until I am forced to respond.
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Exactly Nas, even then just do it through a lawyer.
No need to contact them yourself. If they choose to be a cowardly Vanisher, then treat them that way.
You don't contact me, I don't contact you.
Give them the same dignity they give you.
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I’m talking about messaging them regarding finances or divorce or issues with children. They don’t reply to even the most important of messages.
No, they dont. But even clingers do that thing of not responding regarding finances, divorce or issues with children. But if you have their phone, they aren't one of those vanisher that has vanished at BD, or at a point, never to be seen/heard again (until the day they resurface).
Mr J never changed his e-mail adress or mobile number. But he always refused to gave his landline number and home address. He has now moved again, either he and OW2 bought a flat in the capital or she did. No idea where he lives now. I know, and always knew, where he works at and his work phone number.
He does however, tended to reply to my e-mails if they were regarding things of mine he still has. Sending them is another matter, he send those journals he found early this years I didn't even remember he had, but not the things I have asked through the years.
Right now I can't be bothered to talk to him. But I may start to want things sorted out. This stupidity has been dragging for too long with barely any changes in sight. Yes, he now uses my name when he e-mail, yes, he restart going to concerts of bands/music genres he always liked. He has mostly gave up the electronic dance music clubs and parties, but it is all still too little to make any difference when it comes to fully sort things out.
I will have to think. And if I want to do something, I will ask my lawyer to talk to Mr J's lawyer.
Currently, I have a reason to talk to him if I want to, there will be an exhibition here and Mr J have many materials that belong to me that the curators would like to have. However, two of the curators know the wide picture and they are content in having the materials I have with me. Not sure why I don't want to e-mail or call him. The only reason I come up with is, can't be bothered and have better things to do then waste a second talking to him.
The few times that there have been people in my life that I have felt completely apathetic to, where I don’t dislike them or hate them but just feel nothing about them at all, I would completely ignore them no matter what the messages. For as long as possible until I am forced to respond.
The few texts I get are usually "are you coming to dinner tonight" from mum or one of my siblings. Even if mostly they tend to phone or send a FB message. Most other people get in touch by e-mail and a few by Facebook.
I don't recall when was the last time I really need to directly talk to Mr J about divorce matters. It must have been when my lawyer wanted me to call Mr J and talk to him. It was years ago. October 2014 I said I would no longer bother with such matters and haven't since.
And if I could go back I would had never exchanged an e-mail or done a call to talks such matters. It would had been straight to a lawyer at BD and lawyers that took care of things.
Ready2 was lucky and end up being able to get a settlement from her husband. With Mr J it was all a waste of energy and time.
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Ready2 was lucky and end up being able to get a settlement from her husband. With Mr J it was all a waste of energy and time.
Let me update quickly that it's not done yet. He's not gone back on anything, but my lawyer has dragged it out (not at my urging, just that he's being very lazy and difficult with me). We had one house issue left to settle with the mortgage company, and between the lawyers and everyone there, it's still in process. xH ramped up manic this week about it and still uses it as a constant source to contact about (sometimes monster - even though I've done nothing wrong, shocker - and sometimes as though we're partners). To this point, everything is still on tap to be calmly wrapped, but...popcorn still popping. LOL
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Oh, not done yet. ::) Thanks for explaining the current situation.
Ex-husband has been needing his dose of contact and drama a lot of late. ::) Phew.
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Hey Clanishers of the Vanishers...
What's going on?
My vanisher has been so damn quiet since we got married...
to other people. ;D ;D
Well, when I say quiet, I mean to each other.
He's all yappy, yappy, to our mutual hairdresser, knowing that she tells me everything. Telling her details of my wedding a day after it happened.
As many know, I received an "apology" letter from a betrayer on his side.
Then another friend from his side also sent me a letter.
They all know my address, and about my wedding, details about my out-of-state job.
When he was running, everyone wanted to know what he was doing/thinking,... they wanted him so bad in their lives that they hatched a plan to push me out.
Now that he's around, and I'm gone, now everybody wants to be all up in my business.
Funny how things change.
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I still contend that the Leaver hates that you remarried (as strange as it sounds - but we know his remarriage was most definitely not his idea and we know MLCers don't have the same view of marriage as normal people).
And because he is in real estate, he has access to every real estate transaction and I'm willing to bet he's watching your every move. No doubt he has looked up exactly what you sold your house for, what you paid for the new one and whatever other info he could get.
My vanisher vanished again after I messaged him once I found out from Facebook that he put our dog to sleep.
His FB profile picture is still a picture of the dog's collar - the one I asked him to send me and he promised he would. Eight weeks later, nothing, and I know he didn't forget. I expected it from the beginning so at least I wasn't disappointed.
I didn't get a happy birthday from him 2 weeks after the dog died. I didn't get a happy birthday the first year he lived with OW, then I got one last year (but it was a message from H 'from the dog.')
He's been pretty silent on social media. He's got almost 30 less FB friends than he did a few months ago - I noticed that when I looked at his page for the first time to see what he posted about the dog.
We went on vacation to the same place every year this week. Yesterday there was a news story about the town we used to vacation in and he tweeted and commented on it. Last year he tweeted during our vacation week because the semi-famous woman he flirts with on Twitter happened to be vacationing there. So it's just funny that every year something seems to come up that won't let him avoid thinking about that place during the very week we were always there.
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I still contend that the Leaver hates that you remarried (as strange as it sounds - but we know his remarriage was most definitely not his idea and we know MLCers don't have the same view of marriage as normal people).
Almost everyone who reads my stuff believes that The Leaver has deep regrets.
So why do so few believe that about their own spouses?
Mine is no different than the rest.
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I still contend that the Leaver hates that you remarried (as strange as it sounds - but we know his remarriage was most definitely not his idea and we know MLCers don't have the same view of marriage as normal people).
Almost everyone who reads my stuff believes that The Leaver has deep regrets.
So why do so few believe that about their own spouses?
Mine is no different than the rest.
I don't believe it about my H because he's never expressed regret in any way. He never finds excuses to contact me (and even changed his phone number) and he isn't watching anything I'm doing. He doesn't monster. He's not plastering his life all over social media to prove himself. He's not doing anything, really, except living his new life as if the old one never existed.
If he has regrets, it's that he knows he destroyed me financially, but he isn't about to do anything to fix that and that's why he avoids.
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I don't believe it about my H because he's never expressed regret in any way. He never finds excuses to contact me (and even changed his phone number) and he isn't watching anything I'm doing. He doesn't monster. He's not plastering his life all over social media to prove himself. He's not doing anything, really, except living his new life as if the old one never existed.
Oh Nas,...
You know I thought the same thing for a very long time.
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Almost everyone who reads my stuff believes that The Leaver has deep regrets.
So why do so few believe that about their own spouses?
Mine is no different than the rest.
For me, it's the statement he said to you about waking up every morning sick to his stomach and feeling like he's living somebody else's life (or something very similar to that).
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That's a great question, Nah.
I teeter between not believing he has deep regret (no words, certainly no actions, absolutely nothing to support how the vanisher thinks or feels. Mine has never been on FB or social media, so no clues there....)
The other side of the teeter/totter is a certain knowing that I feel he absolutely has regret (although somewhat shallow and probably self-centered) however, one day will regret deeply (when it's no longer "about him"). When he meets this deep regret, I'll know it because I'll hear from him.
Who knows though, but I do believe there is avoidance due to shame - and the shame is tied to regret. Either that or he is just so utterly repulsed by me, hmmm. ::)
"My existence could be grotesque and incomprehensible to him" -- LOL.
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My vanisher, through his lawyer has sent me divorce papers that say we mutually agree to the divorce. All stamped and I only have to sign in front of JP so they can electronically lodge and it will be over in 6-8 weeks. Although the outcome is the same, I want him to file solo so need some help in formulating some words. I found some of these words on CL.
My last chance to say anything.
“If H wanted us to “mutually agreed to end our marriage” then the reality would be that it was a joint decision from the start. Cheating is a unilateral act. In his own words “ive been sleeping with many, many, many women and I’ve fallen in love with two of them”.
I can’t stop H from ending our marriage after 34 years but I will not participate in the process. I believe the reason stated in his application should be his infidelity.
The right thing is often the hardest. H has lost the love and respect of the people who loved him the most. He will never regain either of those things again. It will be years before he realizes how much he has lost, and what is really important in life.”
Any thoughts?
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Depends on the legal rules...would you have to contest his divorce and counter-sue?
And how important it is to you that the legal paperwork reflects the truth as usually the courts don't care and it may cost you money or time you don't want to spend?
I think a few folks here have chewed on this and it is really a very personal choice, so my only advice is to take your time, look at the options and decide what is best for you.
My h filed using ridiculous 'unreasonable behaviour' reasons which is common under Uk law. Actually they were full of projection...a vanisher saying I'd refused to talk to him about our m LOL, no mention of the woman he married 5 weeks after his divorce was final, lots of lies. I could have chosen to contest it or insist on a 2 or 5 year separation but decided it didn't serve me. I knew the truth, even he did actually, my L did, our friends did...no one else cared. So I responded via my L saying that i did not agree with the divorce, saw the reasons as being more about his infidelity LOL but would not contest it. For me, the reality was that I no longer had the husband I'd had and he wanted to divorce me in this s$itty way, so there was nothing worth contesting or investing money or time in.
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For me, I took charge and filed and picked “irreconcilable differences” bc it was quicker, easier and cheaper than Adultery.
I felt the divorce was just paperwork, the marriage was already dead.
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Almost everyone who reads my stuff believes that The Leaver has deep regrets.
So why do so few believe that about their own spouses?
Mine is no different than the rest.
For me, it's the statement he said to you about waking up every morning sick to his stomach and feeling like he's living somebody else's life (or something very similar to that).
Yes, those were his words. BUT... that was after 4 years of nothing but silence with a few accusations sprinkled in... again, I feel any of our husbands could say those words, mine just slipped in the heat of an argument.
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Ausgatorgirl
My vanisher, through his lawyer has sent me divorce papers that say we mutually agree to the divorce. All stamped and I only have to sign in front of JP so they can electronically lodge and it will be over in 6-8 weeks. Although the outcome is the same, I want him to file solo so need some help in formulating some words. I found some of these words on CL.
My last chance to say anything.
“If H wanted us to “mutually agreed to end our marriage” then the reality would be that it was a joint decision from the start. Cheating is a unilateral act. In his own words “ive been sleeping with many, many, many women and I’ve fallen in love with two of them”.
I can’t stop H from ending our marriage after 34 years but I will not participate in the process. I believe the reason stated in his application should be his infidelity.
The right thing is often the hardest. H has lost the love and respect of the people who loved him the most. He will never regain either of those things again. It will be years before he realizes how much he has lost, and what is really important in life.”
Any thoughts?
My H did the same thing as yours and led his solicitor to believe there had been some 'agreement' between us about me divorcing him for adultery!! when we had no discussions then or since......as Heartsblessings said they wont even say the word D let alone discuss it .....!
I refused to acknowledge the OW...I didnt contest the D because in the UK it costs £1,000's but I said I would not agree to D for adultery...…...of course (like Treasure's) that meant he had to divorce me for unreasonable behaviour......….or wait 2 years/5 years....
So he (OW) went for unreasonable behaviour...…….with some very ridiculous claims....we didn't go to bed at the same time!! and I worked too hard!!
BUT for me I felt it was important the OW (who I believe is a BPD or sociopath) didn't have any sort of role that would make her feel important & I wanted my MLC'er to remember (if he ever is sane) that it was him and him alone that drove the D and ended a good marriage....
But that was me....and I was 'lucky' because OW (I think) was not very confident in some ways and didn't want to take me on.....and my MLC'er did have history with his mum having to sell up and leave the family home after his dad left......so he didn't want to reinvent history and have me lose my 'home' as he had, as a child.
Now I would counsel anyone in the same situation as this...………
If you can afford to have principles stick to them.
However remember that in MLC all bets are off and you need to think of the long game....you have to protect your own situation and future.....don't think whats right for them...the time for thinking as a 'couple' is gone... (for now anyway)
Fight for financial stability for yourself and your children (if you have them)…..forget your pride because as they say 'pride comes before a fall'
What will give you small comfort is if you are secure.....financially that is...if you manage to maintain your home...or if you have enough money...or retirement fund..
Because your MLC'er isn't thinking of any of this, they are living for today, they will be for a long time and they wont be thinking of the consequences of their actions either and in many cases (like mine) they are fully under the influence of the AP (who basically thinks of themselves always)
So no matter how much it hurts and how much it seems so alien, for now, maybe a long time and maybe forever...........you have to learn to think about you and if you have them, your children..
Believe me, you will be very grateful, as will your children you follow this advice....and maybe even your MLC'er when they come through this
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I get so confused over your laws.
We don't have the option of "Infidelity" or "Unreasonable behavior" it's just a No Fault divorce here.
Which is ridiculous, there is always fault.
I personally, if my H had committed Infidelity, that would be on the divorce papers, as the reason. In bold letters.
Let both of them live with the real reason my H divorced me. Name her if you have to.
Let them both wear the shame.
Why wouldn't you? It's the truth and the reason.
Guess I'm not understanding. If I was not unreasonable why would I want that on the record as the reason??
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Thanks 1T, financials are done already and I am happy with the result. It’s the principal. I will stew on it for awhile and decide later.
Thanks all, yes the outcome will be the same but I need to be able to say H divorced me, not mutually agreed. I think I would have been happy to sign if he hadn’t vanished and had man’ed up. But he is so weak, not the person I used to know. Same old story unfortunately.
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Why wouldn't you? It's the truth and the reason.
Guess I'm not understanding. If I was not unreasonable why would I want that on the record as the reason??
Time and money... you have to prove it.
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Why wouldn't you? It's the truth and the reason.
Guess I'm not understanding. If I was not unreasonable why would I want that on the record as the reason??
Time and money... you have to prove it.
And in the end, it won't make a difference in most locales as to what you get in the settlement. My attorney said I could respond with adultery, but in our county it's not considered in the judgment. The paperwork is public record, but who really looks at it? Nobody. Not even my ex and I. Put your energy into your life, I say.
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My h tried to divorce me for unreasonable behaviour. After the shock of divorce papers and I re read them it’s laughable what he put as my unreasonable behaviour! I went to lunch with his sister without his permission. It was pathetic and a lie so I cross petitioned as I was settling for unreasonable behaviour and I certainly wasn’t paying for it as he had put in the divorce! His adultery but not a mention! I damn sure wasn’t paying for that. I cross petitioned with his unreasonable behaviour of continuing a relationship with a third part called ********. It was basically adultery without filing adultery as hard to prove even when you have black and white evidence! He lives with her ffs and she calls him her other half twin flame!
He caved just before court and went for 2 yr separation even though technically not 2 yr separation with his returns but he would pay so I went with it.
I could of just signed and not agreed but I knew it would eat me alive. It’s a personal choice but also be aware that although mine caved as i knew 90%. he would as I know him , there was that chance he might not of with influence of ow. Xx
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My H said that I could file D for his adultery. But then becasue he got angry that the girls didnt want to meet OW and some major pushing from OW he filed on my unreasonable behaviour. This was done in a completely underhanded way and my solicitor was not happy at all. The reasons on the petition were laughable. I gave it a lot of thought and didn’t think it was worth the money, time or stress to cross petition. So I accepted it. A part of me wishes I hadn’t but I am ok with that decision.
I believe that its just a piece of paper. Everyone knows that he left us for OW- including himself, despite completely denying it. In my correspondence back I stated that I am not in agreement with the reasons he has stated but am not going to defend it.
With all the legal stuff Ive been through....what it said on the petition is the least of my worries. Divorce is divorce....right now whats more important is getting full custody of my children and a reasonable financial settlement to secure a future for my girls.
I never wanted a D and still dont. But I knew with the high energy MLCer my H is and the destruction he is causing...it was inevitable for protection.
Its just a piece of paper that no one else will see. People can see he is living with OW and its his fault. Also with him filing and not me, it put the responsibility of ending the marriage on his shoulders and not mine and without acknowledging or giving OW the attention and power. Its the same with his decision to move out. I made it clear to him that I am not asking him to leave, he is choosing to leave himself. I saw major monster behaviour as a result as he did not like it at all....it enraged him as he was trying so hard to convince himself, me and everyone else that he had no choice but to leave once the decision was made to seperate (his decision made without me :o) and that he had no choice becasue I made him so unhappy and he couldnt live with me! He was desperate for me to kick him out. Which later on I had to do- ask him to leave the house, change the locks etc which he then used to justify his actions to everyone.
So my take on it is....dont waste money or effort for principles. Its just a piece of paper that no one will look at. MLCer had no value for the marriage certificate as a piece of paper either. Its their divorce so let them get on with it.
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I agree mitten, the only reason I cross petitioned was because he wanted me to pay for it. I was unhappy he fabricated reasons but if he had declared he would pay or just started out with 2 yr separation and pay for it, I would of gone along with it.
I believe ow wanted me to suffer because she believes all his lies about how terrible I was to him. She didn’t see why her perfect other half should pay for all the abuse he has suffered from his terrible wife who did everything for him, cared for him etc, I could go on.
All his family and friends know he has created this mess. My sil at the weekend said.” I know he is my brother but he doesn’t take responsibility for his actions and it’s always someone else’s fault. He is an ar^***>hole” yep!!
Ow has won, she can have him, I don’t want that man he is now. She thinks she has won but I have really as I don’t need or want the man he has become.
Xx
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Ah I see...my H was so desperate for the D (or OW was) that he filed but offered to pay. I would have fought it to if I had to pay for him filing on made up and exaggerated reasons.
Your lucky his family are supporting you and can see through him. My in laws esp SIL were the same for the first few months but since have withdrawn their support. H was very angry they were supporting me so he manipulated and lied to put a stop to it...as a result it’s the kids that suffer.
Ow has won
OW has not won as he is not a prize right now! Like you say she can have him.
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So my take on it is....dont waste money or effort for principles. Its just a piece of paper that no one will look at.
Agreed, especially if it's going to cost you money.
Even though I filed for "irreconcilable differences", I refused to say our marriage couldn't be reconciled. I was able to say on the stand that our marriage couldn't be reconciled THAT day.
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X filed pretty much straight away couldn't wait to divorce me, he had a wedding to plan!, Im wondering if its the hag that pushed him or if it was his doing desperate to make it work with someone else, either way who cares they deserve each other, both retarded.
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The good thing about a vanisher.... once the divorce is done, ...
Peace. :D
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The good thing about a vanisher.... once the divorce is done, ...
Peace. :D
Yes peace at last Nah, he ALWAYS LOVED drama, I could never understand it, loved to pick fights like a child, he's pretty much lived like that all his life, a total wreck from his childhood, hope he's like that with his wife, what a pathetic existance they both live
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Ow likes drama, she gets none from me. Must be bored sh***less xx
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Not sure divorce gave me peace but an end to the hand grenades certainly
And my xh's speedy remarriage - although it hurt like hell as a last WTF - certainly brought an end to any monkey braining about if i would ever see my h again as it's a such an uncrossable line
And I think there is a kind of peace in giving up hope for answers, apologies or anything from them actually.
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So true Treasure, 'the book' is closed THE END.
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Hey Vanisher thread Im back (been away for a year) my Vanisher is still vanished (no surprises there then) and we are now divorced. I don't actually want him back but I'm still interested in the MLC journey and would still quite like the satisfaction of hearing 'regret' or some vindication one day - ahhh to dream..
I've probably missed about 10 threads but attaching - what have I missed? :)
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You haven't missed much as there aren't a lot of updates with vanishers lol...
Glad to hear about your new bf!
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Hey Vanisher thread Im back (been away for a year) my Vanisher is still vanished (no surprises there then) and we are now divorced. I don't actually want him back but I'm still interested in the MLC journey and would still quite like the satisfaction of hearing 'regret' or some vindication one day - ahhh to dream..
I've probably missed about 10 threads but attaching - what have I missed? :)
Welcome back Sparklestar exactly what u wrote!
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Hi sparklestar,
You haven't miss much. Nas vanisher got in touch with her, Mr J has been sending one or two e-mails a years.
Even if there is no divorce having a vanisher is peace. Having had a clinger in the early years, when I made Mr J vanish - because I cut him off, peace start to come.
Not at once, since he didn't like to had been cut off and run for court all the time.
I am still interested in the MLC process, but I think not as much as I used to be.
A regret is not that important to me. Having my money and assets back is.
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A regret is not that important to me. Having my money and assets back is.
Now there is a statement I can get behind.
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A regret is not that important to me. Having my money and assets back is.
Now there is a statement I can get behind.
True dat!
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https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/debra-macleod/midlife-crisis-marriage_b_14082654.html
I know which one I've dealt with.
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Me too Chris, no 2! She Also has a post re marriage predators re the damsel in distress. Yep that one hits home aswell. Xx
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Self-serving manipulation, yup. Profound self-indulgence, yup.
Interesting that she doesn't ever speak of it as a "temporary" phase or talk about it ending.
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I do think 'marital terrorism' is a pretty good and accurate phrase
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That article described perfectly how my marriage had become for a few years before BD.
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These articles continue to do a disservice to everyone when they gloss over female MLC because the "numbers aren't higher." As everyone on HS knows, the symptoms and severity, the script, is the same. Just make MLC a genderless disaster and start by gaining main stream acceptance by the medical and therapeutic communities. It's still too fringe, and there are thousands of spouses suffering through it. Where's my work mandated safe space as an LBS???
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These articles continue to do a disservice to everyone when they gloss over female MLC because the "numbers aren't higher."
It used to be seen more as a male thing, and, somehow, even if it is not true, it is still seen that way.
Just make MLC a genderless disaster and start by gaining main stream acceptance by the medical and therapeutic communities.
Agree make it genderless. Another thing we know on HS is that MLC also does not have to do with sexual oriantation. We've had several same-sex couples here.
We have several threads about MLC and the medical community. The problem is that MLC may look like other illnesses or some may just say "marriages end". Of course when we say our spouse become the strange, often violent, person they did i MLC, the answer tneds to be "there is something wrong with him/her, the mind is not right"
It's still too fringe, and there are thousands of spouses suffering through it.
Not sure if it is fringe. One of the problems is that a midlife transition tends to be called a MLC. Unlike what is said in the article, a midlife transition often also ends marriages. Midlife transition, like MLC, tends to include an affair and the affair will end the marriage. The difference is that the midlife transition affair will not last as long as the MLC one.
Often, a midlife transition is not more authentic than a MLC. A bumpy midlife transition and a midl MLC are pretty much the same thing.
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I'm curious how many lbsers of vanishers believe that the vanishers ever remember us with fondness? He's been on my mind lately wondering if he is truly happy. Not sure why because I am usually too filled with anger to care lol
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Tyks, there are times when I wonder if my ex will ever remember the good times. And then I (in effect) sober up and realize it doesn't actually matter. What matters is what I remember. I can't change the past, I can't change what my MLCER thinks, so for me, wondering if he ever thinks of me fondly is a poor use of whatever time I have left on this planet.
But for you, if you knew he thought of you fondly, what would that change for you? Would it change your stand, or lack thereof? Would it change how you think of him? Would it change how you think of you? Would there be a benefit to you if you knew that? I'm simply curious as to if this might be a benefit to know.
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Tyks I Understand perfectly what you are questioning and believe that every single one of us LBS ask ourselves the same question regularly. The fact is that you cannot rewrite history...you can try but reality is reality. Photos and memories will always exist, and revisiting these will always reveal the truth.
My counsellor has asked me about my memories of my children's childhood. Yes there were days when I could've literally killed them for their behaviour.but what do I remember? Of course, the numerous happy, joyous, proud moments involving laughter and loving precious moments. These are the memories that are instilled in my automatic memory bank....the same would apply to our MLCers.
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I'm curious how many lbsers of vanishers believe that the vanishers ever remember us with fondness? He's been on my mind lately wondering if he is truly happy. Not sure why because I am usually too filled with anger to care lol
Im like u Tykes I want to overcome the anger about it all, the other day the loon spoke to my oldest girl, he told her that he's 2 main goals in life are wait for it ' TO LIVE LIFE TO THE FULL AND TO MAKE HIS KIDS HAPPY'!!! seriously very ill, very nearly had his kids thrown out in the st but wants to make them happy anyway, go figure.
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I do sometimes wonder if he thinks of me and our children and he prob does but for me, whether he does or he doesn’t, it doesn’t change his decisions or the outcome. Xx
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True Rising, the irreversible damage is done, its irrelevant to me whether he thinks of his x family or not, as for me Im never going back to that, Ive met someone and have moved on.
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Even though many of us have similar circumstances (long seemingly good marriage, husband acts weird then runs...) there are also differences...
Mine was a almost instant vanisher. Yes, he was emotionally abusive to me for a few years before he left but most of my memories are very good. We had 25+ years of being true partners, laughter and love, vacations, holidays, raising a family, etc... too many memories to list.
As the divorce was going on, so much drama and hurt, most of the hurt was him moving on so quickly like I didn't matter.
Now it's over five years since he left. It wasn't easy at first but over time the good memories, for me, very much outweigh the bad. For him, in the early days he often accused me of things like being really good at making HIM feel guilty. We all know that his guilt were b/c of his actions, not my words, but that's how he felt.
Now?
I really truly feel he tries not to think of it BUT... thirty years, thirty years is the entire time our kids were growing up, his twenties, thirties, most of his forties,... all with me. What were his bad memories?
Oh yeah, the fear of getting old. Has that fear subsided now that another birthday is coming up? Can he talk about that fear with his barely 30 year old Mrs-tress?
The good (or bad, your choice) of having a vanisher is we get to choose which memories to focus on. They aren't in front of us still heaping daily emotional abuse. So what do we want to remember? Why would it be any different for them?
I think even the memories are a choice.
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I agree with Nah
I can choose to enjoy my good memories when they pop up
I suspect my xh cannot so he loses 20 years of his own life, just wiped out and impossible to enjoy
Guess he better hope the next 20 are worth it!
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Thanks. OR, you are so right. It doens't matter as it would not benefit me in any way. I would never ever go back to him after he treated me the way he did. I may have been able to forgive an ow but I cannot forgive the disrespect and disregard that he has shown over and over again.
Thanks everyone for your perspectives :)
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Had a registered letter from my vanisher‘s Lawyer wanting me to sign dual lodging of our divorce papers as this is ”better” for him (australia). I don’t know why.
Sent to my old address registered post （my sisters address so she collected）where I was living in April so he does not know I am no longer there... last spoke to him was Nov 2017 via phone. No contact from him or me. Adult children also don’t hear from him.
Financial split done and granted by court earlier this year. I’ve had phone calls and emails from his L which I choose to ignore. His divorce, he can lodge. I’ve sacked my useless lawyers so unless he does it solo, I’m not responding.
Just over 12 months from BD after 34 years marriage. I’m feeling strangely fine...
The silence is golden and life is good！
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I’m feeling strangely fine...
Good for you! Weird, isn't it? When it first happened I was devastated. And now I am also strangely fine.
Why would dual lodging work better for him, anyway? (not that you care, I'm just curious). The financials are already done, what does it matter?
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Why would dual lodging work better for him, anyway? (not that you care, I'm just curious). The financials are already done, what does it matter?
To satisfy his conscience and to share the blame of the marriage breakup. They really are so confused when they are within the tunnel.
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Spot on B!
Back to planet “me”......
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how these losers live with themselves ill never know, especially the ones who take off vanish and remarry, does it ever occur to them the the scale of destruction they've caused especially in regards to the kids??? what a pathetic life they must live.
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Would someone like to start a new Vanisher thread?
New thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10418.0