Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: a on March 12, 2015, 09:03:18 AM
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Hi All
Please excuse me if this topic has been started before. If it has then please can you direct me to the links. I have done a search but could not find anything.
Having read several posts here and while i understand that the OW is of no consequence other than she was available i am curious to know What is life like with the OW. On this site i have read how the MLCer complains about OW to the LBS once the relationship is in full swing, yet in the beginning she is the love of his life. And if he is complaining about her to us - he is doing the same with us to her. It goes without question that the player in all this is definitely the MLCer.
I work with a couple who's relationship began as an affair. She is 18 years younger than him and they have been together for 17 years, he is now 63 years old so he could have been going through a MLC - they seem very content considering they work together and live together.
Are LBS's looking for misery in the MLCers relationship with OW because that's what we need to comfort ourselves. Is it possible that the MLCer is in fact happy with the OW? And maybe more so than he ever was with us?
Curiosity that's all
moment
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good question Moment, I have no clue, my H is completely mum on the topic of the OW, the first year all he said was "don't talk about my friends" or " you have no clue what your are talking about". After I found out she was pregnant, I wouldn't let him get away with that, although now he says he has no clue what I am talking about when I mention his new son.
I do know he did talk to her about me and how unhappy he was, I also know he lied ALOT. He is petrified that I will talk to her. He has already started working on a story to cover that possibility. That is all I need to know, if he had to lie to keep this relationship, and if he denies her and their child to every one that knew him prior to BD, well that says a lot.
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Thanks for posting. I've often wondered the same thing. I believe for myself, that is one of the main reasons I am having a hard time letting go. What if he does enjoy his life with her more than with me?
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Blind,
Another ow who trapped her man by having a child.
moment,
That's a tough question to answer. Who knows what goes on behind closed doors?
I don't think most of these affair relationships turn out happy, but there have to be a few that do. In that case maybe the spouse just really wasn't happy and it wasn't MLC. Not everyone is happy in their marriage.
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.... After I found out she was pregnant, I wouldn't let him get away with that, although now he says he has no clue what I am talking about when I mention his new son.
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Are you freaking kidding me? Denying that he got his OW pregnant even when there is flesh and blood PROOF????
UN@#$%BELIEVABLE.
-T
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The OP is usually a selfish person. They wouldn't be with a married person it they weren't. The MLCer as a part of the process also becomes very self-centered. So you have two people who are looking for the other to make them happy. Sounds like a recipe for disaster but the first part of any new relationship is the romance or infatuation stage. The brain chemical high is like being on cocaine and they can't see the other's flaws. They both think the other one is perfect.
The interesting part is when the infatuation stage ends, the brain chemical high goes away, and they start to see the real person they are with. This begins the Power Struggle phase which is where many relationships break up. At this point there has to be some compatibility and real care for each other for the relationship to continue. There rarely is which is why these relationships are seldom happy and often fail. The problem is the Infatuation stage can last from 6 months to 2 years before the brain chemical high starts to go away.
Summary: they start off thinking they made the right choice and everything is wonderful. Eventually reality will start to settle in. This is when the typical MLCer who is still confused will start to put on a mask to hide the fact that they're becoming less and less happy. It sounds like this is probably where Blind's husband is at now. In a bad situation and he can't admit it, especially to himself.
Thhe following artricle should be required reading for all high school freshmen. I'd make them memorize it.
The Stages of Committed Relationships
http://relationship-institute.com/freearticles_detail.cfm@article_ID=153.html (http://relationship-institute.com/freearticles_detail.cfm@article_ID=153.html)
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I hate to say this, but its just being realistic...
I imagine at first life with the OP is wonderful. I mean it would HAVE to be for them to continue in that relationship. I can only guess, but just examining my own sitch, I know they go out a LOT. WAY more than we ever did these last few years. Then again, when you don't care about the financial repercussions and just do what "feels" good EVENTUALLY there will be consequences. So I imagine at first the thrill is quite exciting. A NEW flirtatious R, lots of fun, new and exciting things. Honestly it has to be quite a rush. But when things settle down and become "routine", and the bills start coming in, and there is no more cash or credit left to do those fun exciting things anymore and the reality finally hits home-I think THAT is the point which a lot of MLCers finally realize they have just traded one set of problems for another, only in most cases since the affair is an affair DOWN, they realize just how destructive their actions had been. What they choose to do about that situation is then ultimately up to them, or is some cases, up to the LBS.
-T
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I personally think that life with the OP is crappy. But since the MLCers feel crappy about themselves, it makes them feel at home.
"Look, this OP is a bigger loser than I am because they are hanging out with a married person. I'm better than they are. This feels pretty good." All done on an unconscious level, of course.
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I hate to say this, but its just being realistic...
I imagine at first life with the OP is wonderful...
... A NEW flirtatious R, lots of fun, new and exciting things. Honestly it has to be quite a rush.
I have to agree with TinTN.
A new start, no baggage (yet), lots of romance (for the time being), sex with a new person (really exciting). I think the fantasy has to play itself out.
Lots of spending on the new relationship.
In four months with the OW my H spent 16K!
There is no doubt in my mind that the fantasy wears off -
My real question is - and then what?
In my situation, I wonder if H will just hunker down in the relationship.
Apparently he hunkered with me for 20 years :P
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There is do doubt in my mind that the fantasy wears off -
My really question is - and then what?
In my situation, I wonder if H will just hunker down in the relationship.
Apparently he hunkered with me for 20 years :P
Wow, my thoughts EXACTLY. I know that NO ONE knows the future, but apparently my w "hunkered down with me" as well for 20 years. I know some MLCers are strong enough to face the damage they have done and make an attempt to return home, so I don't want anyone to get discouraged. However, in my sitch-I imagine my w will just do the same: hunker down and live with it. Even if she does end up having regrets, I imagine she will take them to the grave with her. I could easily be wrong, but that is what my gut says about my sitch. She is too "proud" to ever admit being wrong, and has an extremely difficult time uttering the words "I'm sorry".
-T
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Airmid,
My H accumulated 45K in debt in 4 mos. I am sure there is more, that I haven't found out about. He won't be able to keep it up, going out to dinner, the trips... especially now with a baby, and our daughter going to college next year. Although I think he has cashed out our kids college plans and UTMAs.
I agree with TNT, it is exciting, it is NEW, they are going out doing things, he started drinking, and socializing, (he is an introvert, so that won't last). They live in a crappy apartment, and really have no responsibilities, until now. I think once reality sets in, they do get to that OH $HIT, moment.
Not sure how exciting the sex was in the beginning, since he was having issues, he kindly told me he went to a psychiatrist who advised him it is probably because of the guilt, and maybe he is just use to me, maybe I could help. :o :o :-[ :( >:(.... You can't make this up.
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I hear you TinTN -
I saw your BD was one month before mine.
So I would say this to the both of us - 6-7 months is too soon to really see what will happen.
I still shake my head thinking about my MLCer's situation - living 75 miles away from OW - commuting on weekends - spending midweek at crappy attic bachelor's pad in crappy area of NYC (which he pays $1400/mo). But he did tell me he bought a rowing machine and has it in his flat. Wow that makes his midweek experience a "winner". ???
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Not sure how exciting the sex was in the beginning, since he was having issues, he kindly told me he went to a psychiatrist who advised him it is probably because of the guilt, and maybe he is just use to me, maybe I could help. :o :o :-[ :( >:(.... You can't make this up.
OMG BlindSided - LOL - really - he is blaming his ED on you too!!!!???
I think you should send him this...https://www.fleshlight.com
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I think with my H and OW to start with it was all exciting and he seemed happy enough when he used to call around although in the early days he showed sadness at our marriage ending.
I noticed over the coming months that he didn't seem so happy. Now I find out that she has been very selfish and cannot cook even though she is 63. Most women of that age can cook.
She has shown herself to be controlling and it has finally got through to him that she is a control freak. She opened a letter from his Solicitor that had the Solicitors name franked on the envelope and was marked Private & Confidential. She then went to on shout and argue with him about its contents :o. It's these types of things that eventually get through our MLC heads and they start to see what the OP is really like.
So in the beginning it's all fun and games and they are playing house but as time wears on reality hits and it's a case of the grass is no longer greener.
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I agree with the others about the "fun" and "exciting" part. When I met my H, it was "fun" and "exciting" at first. After a year of dating and then me moving in with him, reality hit. He was a homebody. Didn't like going out, didn't like doing anything other than laying on the couch watching TV, cartoons A LOT and had zero friends. I was really turned off.
I am a social person, like having friends and family around, like going out and trying new things and taking trips. I finally had a sit down with him and explained this to him and he started to go do some things with me. Other's I just did by myself, or myself and the kids.
H's OW has 3 children of which she's never raised. She left all 3 to their 3 fathers and went on he merry way. This confuses me as my H said one of the things that attracted him to me was how good of a mother I am.
In the beginning of all this, when OW was mentioned he would state she's self centered and greedy. Mid way he would defend her to a certain degree. I know she works odd hours and there's not much time they could spend doing things because he likes his naps in the afternoon and she goes to bed by 8:30. She hates cigarettes and alcohol, and he partakes in both.
I'm sure all these things were hidden by his mask in the beginning. I know he has complained quite a bit about her being bossy, controlling and childish to mutual business associates/friends for the last 3-4 months of 2014. All of them tell me that he has nothing but good things to say about me. That I'm the best woman he's ever known and how lucky he is to have me. WHAT??
My H also spent quite a bit of $$ on OW. Close to $50K that I have been able to track so far. And I do know this isn't her first rodeo with a married man.
Was/is he happy with her? Maybe the idea of the new, fresh meat. But in the end, he will find that I'm the one that would have always stood by him and always had his back.
I sometimes wish him happiness. But then I think to myself... I can't wait to see him crash and burn. I know that's mean but I have to keep in perspective what he's done to me and our family.
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Hmmm where do I begin??? H met OW on Thanksgiving weekend 2013 while he was out of town for work. They carried on an EA over the phone until he left on 2/17/14. The PA lasted until approximately November 2014. During this time they broke up at least once and I suspect more then that. He caught her dead to rights cheating on him with at least one other man by May 2014 (she was also sleeping with her own H-so OW was busy w/3 men). He said she was emotionally disturbed in May 2014 when she tried to commit suicide. By August H had lost his high paying job, and was unemployed. He then moved to the state she lives in, and remained unemployed for several months. H lost every thing he owns because he could not afford it (which includes a brand new home that was almost complete). I have no idea what caused the demise of their LOVE affair, because H won't say. My wise male friends here at HS said it is probably that age old love story.....he loses it all over her, and she leaves for a man who has some money.
So I would have to say life with the OW was pretty sucktastic.....just my humble opinion.
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.... After I found out she was pregnant, I wouldn't let him get away with that, although now he says he has no clue what I am talking about when I mention his new son.
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Are you freaking kidding me? Denying that he got his OW pregnant even when there is flesh and blood PROOF????
UN@#$%BELIEVABLE.
-T
This is the ultimate in crazy making. Hey don't believe your eyes, believe what I'm saying!
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Here is my 2 cents worth. My husband back in the house over a year now and has NEVER changed his story and as you can imagine .. it has been talked about plenty . I suspect, my lack of trust makes me unable to believe him. The "OW".... he says , she made him feel admired , appreciated , wanted and did not judge him. He says " sex was sex "... no mind blowing hang from the chandelers. It was just sex . He will say it was exciting initially , to be with some one new and to feel he was "okay". She smiled and was excited to see him.. made him feel good and someone thought he was a great person, when everything was completely out of control. He liked to feeling of doing nice things for her because she was very very happy. ( she is actually "simple "... but okay ) . I have a very hard time believing the sex thing ... but , he swears it . Also, he has made an odd statement to the therapist. He , at times , pretended or "felt " like it was ME . He took her to all our favorite places and did the exact same things with her , that he did with me . My mouth fell open... you thought "she " was " ME". ?? Insulting ... wierd . Shrink says she has heard that befor. He said he had her so he could " feel anything ". He cared about NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING ... and she atleast made him feel something . However , he said NEVER was he happy, he never intended to build a life with her , never thought past the next 3 minutes . He dropped her instantly, 100% , never had any contact with her and says he does not miss or think about her for 1 second ( except when I keep bringing her up. ) . She on the other hand , told him she loved him, wanted him to move in and was changing her work schedule around to be with him and asked him " when can we tell your kids "... this started the process of him " snapping " out of it . When she talked in permanent terms or future ideas , his voice in his head said " wtf am I doing ". He started to see she was a drinker and did not care about her kids . He says " there was never ever a discussion about ME , his marriage or our relationship". He never told her a thing and she never dared to ask . HUH? Now , she was on probation for assaulting her husband, absolutely had a relationship with my girls ( she did not give a sh%t about them ) and her 1 and only sister committed suicide and she never even mentioned it to my husband (!!!) . So.. how much of an affair down was this ? I am embarrassed for him. This is part of his story and he stick to it !
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The "OW".... he says , she made him feel admired , appreciated , wanted and did not judge him.
He says " sex was sex "... no mind blowing hang from the chandelers. It was just sex . He will say it was exciting initially , to be with some one new and to feel he was "okay"....I have a very hard time believing the sex thing ... but , he swears it .
Barbie,
A lot of what you say here rings true to me. I don't know much about my H & his OW's R & they are still quite bonded after a long affair & two years of post-BD cohabitation, unlike your situation.
However, one of the internet R guru's (don't remember which) has written that the adulterer is addicted to the approval, admiration, & sex the OW gives. I would bet that the approval/admiration part is even stronger & more addicting than the sex. MLCers are numb & dead inside & somehow the attentions of this random OP lights a spark that (as RCR has said) feels like a miracle, because they are feeling nothing else.
I don't have a hard time believing what your H says about the sex at all. As shattered, betrayed LBS's I think we may focus too much on the sex (I know, I know, it is a punch in the gut), but I think this is the truth. Exciting at first, secretive & scary, & makes the d!ck feel like a teenager again. But briefly, very briefly. Then it's routine. And she's no longer so eager & he's not a teenager anymore & gets tired & maybe things don't work as well as they used to & maybe they'd both just rather watch TV.
Also, he has made an odd statement to the therapist. He , at times , pretended or "felt " like it was ME . He took her to all our favorite places and did the exact same things with her , that he did with me .
How many of us are puzzled by the OW bearing some resemblance to us? And usually in a less attractive way--more puzzlement. My H's OW is as fat as I was pre-LBS weight loss. An old friend who knows the OW described her as me with dark hair. They all seem to retrace our tracks with the OW--vacation spots, favorite restaurants, etc. They feel "unhappy" & emotionally detached from us, but now they find the OP who makes them feel something, so maybe they can just substitute one for the other & have everything fixed.
He says " there was never ever a discussion about ME , his marriage or our relationship". He never told her a thing and she never dared to ask .
This I have a hard time believing. If MLC makes them so "unhappy in their M" then this has to come up in the MLCer/OP conversation. They can't justify this thing without blaming us & explaining that to the OP. And the OP wants to know all this so they can justify this whole thing to themself. To me this is almost on par with the sex. The betrayal of intimate details of a M that belong only between the two people in the M. A sickening, gut wrenching betrayal.
Thanks for sharing the inside info, Barbie. Always interesting to get reports from the dark side.
Hugs,
HT
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We have several other threads about the OW/OM:
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=5664.0 - The OM/OW - Alienator - Are We Kinding Ourselves? II
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2236.0 - OW/OM 2
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1701.0 - The Alienator - Many Questions cont'd...
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=30.0 - Questions about the affair/OM/OW
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=5689.0 - The "other women " and sexual intimacy ... my nightmare
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I had an interesting conversation the OW a few weeks back , I was trying to speak to H but ended up getting her . It was very eye opening because with out any prompting from me she went in to this long justification of why she had started an affair with my H . It answered so many question that I had in my mind about the lies that H had told her. It seems we had a very unhappy marriage and that she knew we had both been unhappy for a long time !!!. H could not talk to me , she saved him from committing suicide . She knows what it is like to be left as her partner had an affair ( I am pretty sure that one is a lie) .
She is as mixed up as he is because she claims to have experience in mental health and yet she thought it was the right thing to do to start an affair with someone who was clearly depressed . She also seems to think that he is much better now even though it is clear to everyone else that his is not . She also feels that he has a healthy relationship with his family !! That one is hard to figure as he has not seen his parents for 18 months and she has never met any of them .
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H could not talk to me , she saved him from committing suicide .
When I first met my MLCer, he claimed that no one in his family understood or cared about him, his business failed and his gf left him. He started out being suicidal, then used it to threaten me into meeting up with him. Only later did I discover that his family was so protective of him, they would kill anyone who had the slightest intention of hurting him, or even someone who would steal him away from them.
She is as mixed up as he is because she claims to have experience in mental health and yet she thought it was the right thing to do to start an affair with someone who was clearly depressed .
I was afraid he would harm himself, and once, he fell asleep in mid tele conversation and I called the police thinking he had overdosed on pills. I was truly suckered in.
How naive I was. I should have just called a hotline to assist him and washed my hands. Would have saved me 10 years of crap and sorrow.
Oh, btw, when we first got together, we came up with a list of reasons why we loved each other. His was 'you understand me', 'you don't stop me from pursuing my dreams', 'you don't despise me'.. among others. Sounds familiar? Looking back I think I met him when he was having a quarter life crisis and lost him at midlife crisis. The whole 10 years were a nightmare.
Looking forward to the relationship I deserve!
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Looking back I think I met him when he was having a quarter life crisis and lost him at midlife crisis.
I suspect this might be the case for me, also
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Hi All
Thanks for the replies very interesting behaviour. Anje thank you for the links.
Herewith my 10 cents worth. While XH and i were still married about 4 months before BD i remember seeing an email from OW that was rather flirtatious but did not suspect anything because i tend to be rather naive and at that stage still trusted XH. I remember saying something like how can a woman pursue a married man without any consideration for his wife. Xh replied he would never trust a woman like her and what made this comment especially significant is that he actually looked me in the eye. At the time of this incident XH was in a full on affair with her and was in the habit of not looking me in the eye whenever he spoke to me.
Upon me discovering the affair within a month XH started cheating on OW with women he was meeting on these "have an affair" websites.
As for OW she is an educated person 14 years younger than XH who works in the corporate world in environmental sustainability. Two months into knowing XH she sent a explicit photo of her V@g!n@ as she is inserting a vibrator.
Fast forward 4 years later XH marries OW and has been married to her for 8 months. So the infatuation is over and yet he has made a commitment to someone who has no respect for herself.
Two weeks ago my car broke down. I texted XH to get the policy number for the car insurance so i could have my car towed. He immediately phones me to ask if i am okay and starts calling me by his pet name for me. I was not very responsive. I was polite as i would be with a stranger. He got upset and slammed phone down. I felt bad - i know silly. None-the-less i text him the following:
"Dear XH i am sorry. I struggle to speak to you knowing that in the end all you had for me was contempt and disgust - i need to be free from buying into your perception of me and you need to be free from your anger and guilt towards me. The only way i know how this is possible is to give us both freedom from the past. I am truly sorry if this causes you pain. I guess this is what happens when things are left unresolved".
His reply
"Less disgust for you than you think moment.....just a whole lot of regret.....and embarrassment. Not regret for our life together....but regret that it didn't go forward. I had a good life with you moment...it was only a very small part of it that didn't work out well towards the end.....but that's done now...."
Assuming he is being sincere i thought hearing from him that he lives with some regret would give me a sense of vindication. It didn't i just felt how sad and what an absolute waste of time and tears. On the bright side of things i no longer hide my light under a bushel so XH doesn't feel less than.
Also on his what's app his quote reads “The price of being a sheep is boredom. The price of being a wolf is loneliness. Choose one or the other with great care.” What a shame he thinks he only has two choices in life and when he is newly married. And how does OW feel that this quote is up for all to read - go figure
take care
moment
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Looking back I think I met him when he was having a quarter life crisis and lost him at midlife crisis.
I suspect this might be the case for me, also
+1 for me as well. Wife left her first x for me-she was around 23ish at the time. She is now 44 and has left me for #3.
-T
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It answered so many question that I had in my mind about the lies that H had told her. It seems we had a very unhappy marriage and that she knew we had both been unhappy for a long time !!!. H could not talk to me , she saved him from committing suicide .
Callan,
What a mess that R is!
This is what I mean about the MLCer talking to the OP about our M's. They have to be talking about our M's to justify why they are so "unhappy" & congratulating each other on saving each other & justifying all of this to tamp down any whiff of guilt that might surface. That most (all?) of it is lies & distortions is a given, but they do talk about our M's.
It seems we had a very unhappy marriage and that...we had both been unhappy for a long time !!!.
Exactly what my H said at BD.
Hugs,
HT
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His reply
"Less disgust for you than you think moment.....just a whole lot of regret.....and embarrassment. Not regret for our life together....but regret that it didn't go forward. I had a good life with you moment...it was only a very small part of it that didn't work out well towards the end.....but that's done now...."
What a long time it takes for them to begin to understand this. No acceptance of responsibility though--"it didn't work out" & really no sense of remorse.
Assuming he is being sincere i thought hearing from him that he lives with some regret would give me a sense of vindication. It didn't i just felt how sad and what an absolute waste of time and tears.
Absolutely!
Hugs,
HT
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I'm still very close to the beginning but mine said "I think this has been a long time coming." But I have a large storage capacity on my phone and can pinpoint his withdrawl from our R because there were at least 2 texts "love you" texts a day up until Thanksgiving, when he found out his friend is dying, then sporadically for a few weeks, then Christmas break we got BD. So, nope, not a long time coming.
I am still looking for behavior prior that would indicate build-up, but honestly in my case, this came on very suddenly. I have pictures, too, of him happy and engaged with us and our family activities, then BAM, all the ones from the holidays he looks miserable. he
I can't wait for the day he stops holding me responsible for this :(
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"It seems we had a very unhappy marriage and that...we had both been unhappy for a long time !!!."
My H said same at BD, evidently I was also miserable with our marriage, he was just the brave one who spoke up. Imagine, if he didn't clue me in on my unhappiness, I would still be living blissfully unaware that I wasn't actually happy!
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I am fairly certain my guy is not necessarily enjoying life with the OW. They live in an old funeral home...seriously. ::) :o
What's funny is that she is a redhead and he swore he'd never be with another redhead again. Well, this one has the same look, hair, build, etc as his son's mom. They dated when he was just out of high school.
So, to me he has gone back to when his brain says life ended...the unexpected birth of his S19. I know he loves him, but he complained about child support the whole time. I think he also felt it kept him tied to this job he hates, as he worried about keeping up with the child support payments during the switch.
He's definitely replaying a time before he became a dad...enter OW...he has picked up where he left off 19 years ago. All I can say is that I hope it doesn't take 14 yrs to find me back a second time.
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Oh ya...life with the OW? She does not trust him so she monitors his phone.
She was at his parents' house when she asked him where he was last time he was here a couple weeks ago. He told her her he was at his parents....ooops, caught red handed! His dad said they had only met her twice...can you imagine how that must have looked to them...especially when they have said they hope he comes to his senses and realize what he will lose in me?
He works with her so they are together 24hrs a day. If she enjoys seeing the manufacturing "guys in the shop" type of attitude & language, then I guess more power to her. I always told him to leave it at the shop and he did. I've witnessed the guy thing and it ain't pretty.
I'm going to assume the sex life isn't fantastic or he wouldn't text me about anything related to that.
I have to wonder if/what she cooks. He called me once on his way to get take-out Chinese. He told me once he had nothing to eat so he had to go get a pack of Oreos. He tells me when he's cooking & it seems to be often...unless he's off to buy food.
I don't think it's a safe, homey feeling...with a home cooked meal waiting for him, like he had with me.
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Oh, btw, when we first got together, we came up with a list of reasons why we loved each other. His was 'you understand me', 'you don't stop me from pursuing my dreams', 'you don't despise me'.. among others. Sounds familiar? Looking back I think I met him when he was having a quarter life crisis and lost him at midlife crisis. The whole 10 years were a nightmare.
Looking forward to the relationship I deserve!
I think you had a pwBPD. It's like mild MLC all the time. The "You don't despise me" is the waving red flag on that one.
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It seems we had a very unhappy marriage and that...we had both been unhappy for a long time !!!.
Exactly what my H said at BD.
Hugs,
HT
Don't you gals just hate it when you were unhappy in the marriage and NOBODY TOLD YOU YOU WERE UNHAPPY all that time? That's the one that gets me. I THOUGHT I was happy...what did I know.....
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Yea I got that one too "I don't think you're happy either"
:o um... I'll decide that thanks!!
I saw it as part of his justification for his actions.
Life with OW?
Mine lives with his secretary and her two kids.
I don't know a lot except what my daughters tell me
They say her cooking is boring, there are lots of rules in the house, she organises their social life with no collaboration from him, she bosses him around, she doesn't seem to take care of him. They aren't "lovey dovey" with each other. She is dumb (sometimes my D19 steers the conversation in ways she knows OW can't follow ;) ) her family are what we Aussies would call "bogan". He doesn't seem to be any happier than he was here.
When my D13 refused to stay with him anymore once he moved in with OW and kids saying she didn't like those kids he said to me "I do get the kid things, I honestly do, they can be .... Strange"
Good work H left your wife and awesome kids for OW and her strange kids :o
I do believe however that he stays coz its good enough and after all the devastation he has caused he can't admit he made a mistake. Pride. Guilt. Inability to say sorry or admit fault.
OW had just come through a nasty divorce out of a relationship we all thought was dynsfunctional, no one was surprised when that marriage failed. H was very helpful and kind, I was quite proud I was married to such a great guy. But taking care of someone creates feelings doesn't it...
My D19 recently said that it's funny dad said all these things about me at BD )eg rigid, controlling, too insular ) that were not true of me yet he has hooked up with someone for whom they are all true.
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Blindsided13 oh gosh you made me laugh so hard - that was a good one. Xh said the same thing to me that he had been unhappy for most of our marriage and it was all because of me. In his latest text he says our marriage was a good one and only in the end there was a very small thing - I do not even know what that small thing is and i do not think he knows either!!!!!
Thank you for the good laugh ;D
HT - thanks for that :)
moment
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Some of you might already know this from my threads.
My 56-yr-old sister has two master's degrees, she runs marathons, above average looks, travels the world for her job. From the outside she seems almost perfect.
She dated her MLC boyfriend when they were in college. They went out Friday, he got married on Saturday, she read about it in the Sunday paper, that's how she found out there was another woman. He was married for 30+ years and just got divorced this year. According to my sister he was married all this time b/c "the families made him" :o :o :o
They have been having an affair for about 8-10 years now, my sister was also married and divorced her husband (who she abused horribly) about 10 years ago. She has been waiting (and I'm sure pressuring) her boyfriend all this time. So he just divorced and they bought a house together with her two girls (12 and 14). She's mad b/c her boyfriend had to give half of his equity to his ex-wife :o, and she is very "stressed" that her new family won't get along, again :o :o :o
When they are together, she laughs at every word that comes out of his mouth, she dotes on him and can't stop staring at him, it's just weird. He doesn't seem to reciprocate, he seemed very uncomfortable at my house.
My sister who makes six figures has been claiming that she pays child care on her taxes to my mother. She gives my mother about $50.00 a week that my mother spends on gas to take her girls around and food for them. I just found out about this not too long ago. My mother lives with me for free b/c my father (also MLC) left my mother with nothing years ago. Now she has to claim on her taxes money she doesn't receive.
My sister use to love tell people what a great busy single mom she was, all the while traveling the world, how was she doing both? SHE WASN'T....everyone watches her kids but her, and she makes money from having my mother (who is 78 and cleans houses to make extra) watch her kids. :o :o
So point is....
From the outside they seem happy. I'm sure his ex-wife thinks he found the perfect soulmate.
I know better, I see it in my own house, my sister is an emotionally sick person, the most selfish person I have ever known. When her boyfriend is here, he usually just wants to see what game is on TV, and sits and watches. She flutters around, always touching him, doing all the talking, it's not normal.
I can only hope that this is what is going on in my husbands life. He is a vanisher so I really don't know what his relationship is like with the girl.
Oh BTW--I was very close to my ex-bil, and he said when he met my sister he couldn't believe how at 40-yrs-old how she could be so sexually inexperienced.
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LLL, I had to laugh at that one. Mine said...you can't be happy either.
I guess in their mind they are not happy so therefore we certainly couldn't be. ::)
All just strange. When I think back to that day the crazy stuff he said makes my brain hurt. So illogical.
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Some of you might already know this from my threads.
My 56-yr-old sister has two master's degrees, she runs marathons, above average looks, travels the world for her job. From the outside she seems almost perfect.
She dated her MLC boyfriend when they were in college. They went out Friday, he got married on Saturday, she read about it in the Sunday paper, that's how she found out there was another woman. He was married for 30+ years and just got divorced this year. According to my sister he was married all this time b/c "the families made him" :o :o :o
They have been having an affair for about 8-10 years now, my sister was also married and divorced her husband (who she abused horribly) about 10 years ago. She has been waiting (and I'm sure pressuring) her boyfriend all this time. So he just divorced and they bought a house together with her two girls (12 and 14). She's mad b/c her boyfriend had to give half of his equity to his ex-wife :o, and she is very "stressed" that her new family won't get along, again :o :o :o
When they are together, she laughs at every word that comes out of his mouth, she dotes on him and can't stop staring at him, it's just weird. He doesn't seem to reciprocate, he seemed very uncomfortable at my house.
My sister who makes six figures has been claiming that she pays child care on her taxes to my mother. She gives my mother about $50.00 a week that my mother spends on gas to take her girls around and food for them. I just found out about this not too long ago. My mother lives with me for free b/c my father (also MLC) left my mother with nothing years ago. Now she has to claim on her taxes money she doesn't receive.
My sister use to love tell people what a great busy single mom she was, all the while traveling the world, how was she doing both? SHE WASN'T....everyone watches her kids but her, and she makes money from having my mother (who is 78 and cleans houses to make extra) watch her kids. :o :o
So point is....
From the outside they seem happy. I'm sure his ex-wife thinks he found the perfect soulmate.
I know better, I see it in my own house, my sister is an emotionally sick person, the most selfish person I have ever known. When her boyfriend is here, he usually just wants to see what game is on TV, and sits and watches. She flutters around, always touching him, doing all the talking, it's not normal.
I can only hope that this is what is going on in my husbands life. He is a vanisher so I really don't know what his relationship is like with the girl.
Oh BTW--I was very close to my ex-bil, and he said when he met my sister he couldn't believe how at 40-yrs-old how she could be so sexually inexperienced.
Wow
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...
There is do doubt in my mind that the fantasy wears off -
My really question is - and then what?
In my situation, I wonder if H will just hunker down in the relationship.
Apparently he hunkered with me for 20 years :P
Wow, my thoughts EXACTLY. I know that NO ONE knows the future, but apparently my w "hunkered down with me" as well for 20 years. I know some MLCers are strong enough to face the damage they have done and make an attempt to return home, so I don't want anyone to get discouraged. However, in my sitch-I imagine my w will just do the same: hunker down and live with it. Even if she does end up having regrets, I imagine she will take them to the grave with her. I could easily be wrong, but that is what my gut says about my sitch. She is too "proud" to ever admit being wrong, and has an extremely difficult time uttering the words "I'm sorry".
-T
I think we married the same woman
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Wow, my thoughts EXACTLY. I know that NO ONE knows the future, but apparently my w "hunkered down with me" as well for 20 years. I know some MLCers are strong enough to face the damage they have done and make an attempt to return home, so I don't want anyone to get discouraged. However, in my sitch-I imagine my w will just do the same: hunker down and live with it. Even if she does end up having regrets, I imagine she will take them to the grave with her. I could easily be wrong, but that is what my gut says about my sitch. She is too "proud" to ever admit being wrong, and has an extremely difficult time uttering the words "I'm sorry".
-T
I go back and forth over this point in my mind. He can be very proud and stubborn, and I think sometimes he refuses to say sorry because he is afraid that his apologizing makes him vulnerable to rejection, if that makes sense. So some days I think there's no way he will ever admit this is danged-up and not right.
On the other hand, in our years together being a couple and learning how to deal with each other, I've seen him make great strides as far as overcoming his pride and pig-headedness and willingness to take accountability for his part in conflict.
I guess it will just depend on what kind of person he ends up being.
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Mine used to tell me that he was not good for me and that neither of us was happy, but I don't even remember when he said that last. He doesn't say anything bad to me at all...and he tells his parents that he needs to visit me...so not badmouthing me there either.
He told me he missed me last month...have not heard that in a long time before that day either.
Unfortunately, about 3 weeks later, he told me he loves OW...so who knows? I don't think he does.
Mine would also be stubborn and proud and not want to admit he did anything wrong...but he would flirt his way out of this if he thought it would work. And, since I know this about him, I'd accept that as his way of apologizing. Not everyone would, but I did daycare for 9 yrs and "sorry" means nothing when it's just a word we're expected to say in order to smooth things over. You can say "sorry" fifty times and never learn anything from it. Showing that you care about someone goes a long way in my book, so I don't care if he never says it, as long as I can tell by his actions.
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My w told me that they dident fit, not emotionely and physical. W is petit en OM was tall. He was a good listener, w left OM becaus he had 2 kids, and they were getting atached to here, w could not stand it because w was not planning to stay....because she was not over me!
Now w lives again with OM, when his kids are not around, w can't leaf a trace of here when the kids are comming.....
That's was what w told me when we were a couple again.....what is true of this story ? I don't know.
I ask w if she wanted to do a STD test, she had the sexual relation ship with OM
W has sworn that always had safe sex, nobody except me is aloud to do that.
I ask here and again becaus it's important. She kept with here statement.
OM eventuly gets dumped ! so he can enjoy a W that not even know herself.
What a joy that must be, slowly the mask will fal off. Almost feel pity for both of them.
OM/OW come not even close to all of us! 8)
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Oh, btw, when we first got together, we came up with a list of reasons why we loved each other. His was 'you understand me', 'you don't stop me from pursuing my dreams', 'you don't despise me'.. among others. Sounds familiar? Looking back I think I met him when he was having a quarter life crisis and lost him at midlife crisis. The whole 10 years were a nightmare.
Looking forward to the relationship I deserve!
I think you had a pwBPD. It's like mild MLC all the time. The "You don't despise me" is the waving red flag on that one.
I am hesitant to diagnose anyone, but he sure had a lot of issues! Well, it's not my problem now. ;D
I met someone last year who displayed a lot of red flags, and instead of trying to help that person, I ran for the hills. Hey, I paid for the lesson in blood.
Btw, just want to state something that might not be a very welcome here. I know a lot of people think the OW is a mentally ill, low-life &^%@#, which might be true in some cases. However, I personally believe that the majority of them are to be pitied, as they have been conned by the MLCer. I know how my MLCer operates and I truly believe that he squirmed, begged, threatened, and blackmailed his way into the OW's life with all sorts of lies and false promises. And the constant checking up on the MLCer by the OW, the paranoia and the crazy-making? Well, who wouldn't, when having to deal with someone like that. We sure did, once. And some do, after re-connection. Life with an MLCer is not pleasant. And that's putting it mildly. Be happy you're not the woman having to deal with it 24/7.
Also, which woman would want to carry a child for 9 months just to trap the MLCer, when the risk is that she would be left with another mouth to feed single-handedly, poorer and with less freedom, and more baggage when she returns to the dating field. Either he entered her faster than common sense did, or she truly believed his lies.
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I often wonder to what extent OWs actions were a deliberate desire to destroy our family, or if she was in some way deceived. I would not put my MLCer above lieing to her. I suppose I will never know.
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According to SIL, H's sister, life is pretty grim. He has been deeply unhappy since the brief honeymoon phase wore off. She has borderline personality disorder I believe. Apparently they row constantly and she screams and throws things at H. She has also punched him several times. No girly punch either. She is aggressive and violent. They have a child together, over a year old now. I believe H wants to get full custody but she scuppered his plans. I believe he doesn't want to leave because of the baby. SIL says they are living together but not together as a couple more often than not. Still lots of drama. But that's as much as I know. I don't ask and he doesn't tell me. Not happy ever after, that's for sure!
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It is generally accepted that MLCers lie.
Mine lied, that's for sure. To his family, his friends, his hypnotherapist, and probably to the OW too. I believe my reputation is in the dumps right now, and because of that, there would be no chance of reconciliation. That's his doing.
Take this scenario for example. Have you ever had a friend who dumped his ex for another, and when he b*tches about the ex, you tell him that you've always thought the ex was a low-life wh*re who looked as if she got run over by a car or something similarly scathing, but you couldn't tell him that then? Now, if this friend is in MLC and exits the tunnel one day, how embarrassing would it be for him to reconcile with the ex. There are ways to justify one's actions without burning bridges.
The deeper he digs the more difficult it is to climb out. I think mine dug 6 feet deep.
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Apparently they row constantly and she screams and throws things at H. She has also punched him several times. No girly punch either. She is aggressive and violent.
If I were living with my MLCer right now I would be doing that too. Oh, actually I did that months before BD. Now I understand what MLC is, I just walk away. No, I run.
Actually I'm not sorry I did that. Better than being bald from tearing my hair out.
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PS
I have to say i too have vacillated between was the OW conned by my XH or was she predatory. However, after having seen some of the early texts between her and XH- plus the fact that she sent such a graphic picture of herself less than two months into her affair with XH - i no longer ponder whether she is a victim. I know she made a very planned and distinct move to entice XH. That to me is predatory and very deliberate. Having said this i do believe that as their relationship progressed she needed to buy into XH's lies to justify her behaviour.
OW was also cruel in her dealings with me - never spoken- but through deeds. For example, about four weeks after BD i had to go back to what had been my home for 13 years with XH to fetch some stuff and OW made sure that when i walked into the house i got the message loud and clear that she was now in the house, she left a cake cooling off on the counter, left other belongings of hers including her vibrator out in the open on the counter for me to see openly what was going on. She was making it very clear she was now the woman in his life. She was marking her territory like a bob cat. That to me lacks compassion. Whatever the MLCers has said to the OW i really do not think it warrants this level of spite.
There was also an incidence where she was deliberately cruel. This was before BD - I was told by XH he was going away for business - he did travel a lot for work. XH and i because we live in a country with a high crime rate of which car hijackings are common, had this agreement were we would check in when he traveled. He would text or phone me when he arrived at the airport and text me once he landed. On this particular day he didn't text me so i phoned only to get hold of this woman on the other end - initially i thought i phoned the wrong number so i tried again only to keep getting hold of this woman. I made several phone calls and when she started ignoring the calls. I called from a land line which she then answered with the same reply that the mobile was her phone. At this point i am very stressed i am convinced XH has been hijacked and that thieves had his mobile. I phone tracker - its a security company that offers a car tracking service in our country. No sooner i phoned the company my XH phones from his mobile - i burst into tears relieved he is okay, i tell him the story which he finds amusing and says it was probably a cross line (in my naivety i believe him not realizing mobiles cannot get cross-lines and especially considering i phoned several times not only from my mobile but from a land-line). Here he is laughing at my distress, however when i tell him i have just phoned tracker he got really angry. At the time again in my naivety i believed his version of events and i put his behaviour down to insensitivity. It was only many, many months after BD that i figured out what had happened. The woman on the other end of the line was the OW and Xh's reaction of finding it funny, followed by the anger was that if tracker had gone out he would have been caught in his affair.
I often wonder how both XH and OW could have played such a cruel "joke". At this point in our M i am being super supportive of XH thinking he is depressed, not reacting but responding - really at this stage i had as yet given no cause for XH's anger or mean spirited behaviour. As for OW how could she be so spiteful, how could she take pleasure at some-one else's distress. In all my anger towards the two of them i have never hit back and believe me i could (i have evidence that XH was cheating on OW with several OW's). While i came close many times to sending the evidence (i would have sent it anonymously, XH does not know to this day i have this evidence, so i would not have been a suspect) something always held me back.
In the space i am now i realize that i could never have lived with my guilt if i had hurt another to the extent that this would have hurt XH and OW. Yet they were able to hurt another for no other reason that it brought them pleasure and joy in that moment as their behaviour bandied them together against what they perceived to be their "foe", me. Really i could see OW pulling the wings off flies out a macabre sense of pleasure.
To this day i am still at a loss to the workings of the human mind that would allow any form of cruelty, i am unable to understand how a rapist does what he does, or a murdered does what they do - i just cannot put myself in that mind set and i do not believe that psychology can really explain it - that's just me. Because of this i often feel disconnected and very confused from that part of our human nature.
Anyway back to XH and OW. Its done know - realizing the level that XH stooped really set me free because up until this revelation i still perceived XH to be this kind, generous and loving man. But now i know different. Whatever my flaws, whatever needs XH felt i did not meet - its certainly did not justify that level of behaviour. I have come to understand the dynamics of an affair. the man feels bored, is unsatisfied by the direction life has taken, possibly even has a sense of failure - so when a much younger woman comes along and makes you feel like a hero and alive again it is a very strong temptation. What i cannot understand is the spite and the cruelty especially when not provocative. Its this aspect of my XH that i cannot reconcile with the man i thought he was and quite frankly MLC does not justify it or explain it to me either because i believe we can rise above the darkness within - the fact that MLCers have those moments of clarity and feel bad about what they have done proves that.
Peace and acceptance are now my mantras
moment
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...
There is do doubt in my mind that the fantasy wears off -
My really question is - and then what?
In my situation, I wonder if H will just hunker down in the relationship.
Apparently he hunkered with me for 20 years :P
Wow, my thoughts EXACTLY. I know that NO ONE knows the future, but apparently my w "hunkered down with me" as well for 20 years. I know some MLCers are strong enough to face the damage they have done and make an attempt to return home, so I don't want anyone to get discouraged. However, in my sitch-I imagine my w will just do the same: hunker down and live with it. Even if she does end up having regrets, I imagine she will take them to the grave with her. I could easily be wrong, but that is what my gut says about my sitch. She is too "proud" to ever admit being wrong, and has an extremely difficult time uttering the words "I'm sorry".
-T
l think the same with mine T and l doubt she'd ever back step now no matter what .
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I was talking to a young woman last nights who's we mother left her father for OM. Classic MLC. She mentioned to me that she knows her mom has "settling" for OM because her father is done and will never take her back.
I think a lot of the MLCers probably believe that, true or not. They know what they've done to us is so cruel and heartless that they do settle.
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l think for sure some could end up happy and not all of them were happy in their old marriage .
But you would think a lot more of them couldn't end up happy in the new thing. For the simple fact that it can't be a real until they leave their marriage first. Before that it's gotta be all part time and sneaking around and fun ,and never ending honeymoon period.
No real life , real person, bringing out all the usual things good or bad in a normal new relationship that either makes it or breaks it. They haven't even seen any of that , until they leave their families .
But even after that you can still add ex's , kids , huge money hassles.
So you would just imagine logically speaking , not that many of them could turn out to be the real thing in the long run.
l do know with mine ,if they are still together then it must be pretty sh@t bc w seems like a mess and sure not too happy.
Yet we were like a couple of teenagers with permanent grins for yrs and yrs and much much more, so wth must the om thing be then ?
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I was chatting on FB last night with my guy's S19's mom. I did S19's senior pictures last year so we got to be friends. Anyway she was upset about some things Mr. MLC had done recently regarding S19 and we got to talking about his current living situation. S19's mom actually worked with OW a few years back. Apparently, she is quite the piece of work.
"She is a very mean, manipulative, insane, toxic person. Not just to others, but to her children and herself."
That's what she told me. I would hate to be with that...but how does a person ever get OUT of that? S19's mom pretty much said it's going to be hard for him to leave at this point.
Can you imagine what the fireworks must be like there? Mr. MLC vs. Insane OW. It can't be a good time.
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l think for sure some could end up happy and not all of them were happy in their old marriage .
But you would think a lot more of them couldn't end up happy in the new thing. For the simple fact that it can't be a real until they leave their marriage first. Before that it's gotta be all part time and sneaking around and fun ,and never ending honeymoon period.
No real life , real person, bringing out all the usual things good or bad in a normal new relationship that either makes it or breaks it. They haven't even seen any of that , until they leave their families .
But even after that you can still add ex's , kids , huge money hassles.
Yet we were like a couple of teenagers with permanent grins for yrs and yrs and much much more, so wth must the om thing be then ?
I don't get it either. I think that deep down, they truly believe that the OP's are really what they deserve to end up with.
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I was talking to a young woman last nights who's we mother left her father for OM. Classic MLC. She mentioned to me that she knows her mom has "settling" for OM because her father is done and will never take her back.
I think a lot of the MLCers probably believe that, true or not. They know what they've done to us is so cruel and heartless that they do settle.
g
I truly belief this is true.....
Can you imagine when they start realise what they have done, lost, and it's just not us, what about friends family, house, good life they had.
People ho don't understand MLC told me I was a fool to start over again, with the w ho has ruined my life, in 2013. To do the same in 2015.
Than there is the fact that we are growing stronger!
I think that's a tuff one, also in there new circle of friends no one would understand that they want to come back to the old situation. All the lays the have told about us. My tells everybody that I'm controlling, only focus on here I have separation anxiety, and some other issues.
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moment,
I do not deny that many OW are affair-downs. In my case, the OW sure is. Still, it was my MLCer who initiated contact, who tempted her, who lied to her about us, who wined and dined her, who whispered sweet nothings in her ear until she fell hook line and sinker. And in my case, a $200 dollar allowance a month has the equivalent value of $2000 back in her 3rd world country. I wouldn't be surprised if she defends her catch like a madwoman. And if she does so, whose fault is it?
I'm sorry you have to deal with the OW. I don't think my MLCer's OW even knows I exist. Well, you know what? She can have him. And you probably should adopt this attitude as well. Have you been in a store and the moment you pick an item up, suddenly you find people crowding around, wanting to look at the same item. Yet the moment you put the item down and walk away, they all lose interest?
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Hi PS
I have let it go a long time ago. I guess there is just a part of me that has not quite accepted that i will never know the why, how or what.
Unlike your H's OW my XH's OW is a lot different. She is a young corporate, well educated up and coming go getter. And where i live it is a status symbol to have an older man who also projects that image of success. Where i live status for many is measured by outward appearances and surrounding yourself with the luxuries of life, the cars the houses, the young nubile wife etc.
I guess OW's come in many shapes and sizes, they range from the innocent and naive to the narcissistic predator. In my case i think the OW leans more towards the latter. I certainly do not envy her. At least when XH met me we were young, innocent and full of hope for the future, i believe Xh's intentions were to marry the person he loved, me but with OW his intentions are questionable and dishonourable to say the least. You simply do not cheat on the person you are in love with and XH has cheated on OW - maybe like many have said in this discussion the MLCer has settled for less than because that is what they feel they deserve after all the destruction.
take care
moment
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I also have to think that sometimes it is the "new start" phenomenon.
For the MLCers:
Who are dependent on their children for their identification and their kids are grown and gone -- The chance to have a new set of kids to raise.
Who are with someone who already managed the transition and have changed positively-the chance to have someone like their "old" spouse before transition, because they feel "less than".
Who are unhappy with themselves, but must blame it on their spouse--a new SO without the old baggage.
Who have had to deal with problems with their children (like a learning disability, or mental disorder that is genetic)--the chance to get away from their own feelings of inadequacy since they refuse to deal with the issue anymore.
Who feels like they are getting old--a younger face to look at to deflect their own fears
No 20 years of fighting the school system, no 20 years of "stuff" to look at, no 20 years of putting the kids needs first, no 20 years of bills that sometimes couldn't be paid, no 20 years of knowing that your spouse managed to take this all in stride and isn't falling apart like the MLCer is, and especially, no 20 years of holding it all in instead of actually dealing with whatever was bothering you (which is what often results in the explosion of soul). Fresh start. The MLcer can pretend none of it ever happened and they are now washed again clean and perfect.
And that is the reason why most of the MLC relationships don't, in the final rinse, work. Because the years start piling on, and nothing has changed in the MLCer themselves. And the OP is still a person who would be with an already married person (and possibly cheating on their own mate).
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Just wondering , so that thing in shops , when your looking at something , is real then ?
l always think it must be coincidence ,l just have bad timing and the minute l wanna check something out , suddenly so does everyone else.
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Just wondering , so that thing in shops , when your looking at something , is real then ?
l always think it must be coincidence ,l just have bad timing and the minute l wanna check something out , suddenly so does everyone else.
In my experience it is if the item is unusual. I liken it to the "If other people want that item, and I get it, I must be superior" theory of life some people have. This is especially true if there is only one of that item or only one in that color. And it depends on how the first person looks at it. If I hold something up and look at it from all angles and it's something that catches the eye, anyone in the vicinity comes to look at it.
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At least in the country I am living women prefer men who are "taken" over those who are single. I find this very strange, the mate "poaching" thing. I would find a married man unattractive, because I would figure if he is willing to cheat on his wife or lie to her, then I would also assume he is willing to cheat on me and lie to me.
Sometimes I feel disgusted with OW for deliberately destroying our marriage, but sometimes I actually feel sorry for her. I doubt she realizes how much my MLCer is in this for personal gain. My MLCer has always been an expert on keeping an innocent countenance, but the first thing he told me at bomb drop was that he had picked her because she had a house and because of her family connections. Then of course he lost his job and now she is supporting him the last two years. So not exactly pure love, more like purely economic interest.
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Just wondering , so that thing in shops , when your looking at something , is real then ?
l always think it must be coincidence ,l just have bad timing and the minute l wanna check something out , suddenly so does everyone else.
In my experience it is if the item is unusual. I liken it to the "If other people want that item, and I get it, I must be superior" theory of life some people have. This is especially true if there is only one of that item or only one in that color. And it depends on how the first person looks at it. If I hold something up and look at it from all angles and it's something that catches the eye, anyone in the vicinity comes to look at it.
This reminds me of something we did when I was a high school senior and we took our senior trip to New York City. We would have one guy stand and look up in the sky. Soon there would be several people gathered around him, also looking up in the sky. ;D
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At least in the country I am living women prefer men who are "taken" over those who are single. I find this very strange, the mate "poaching" thing. I would find a married man unattractive, because I would figure if he is willing to cheat on his wife or lie to her, then I would also assume he is willing to cheat on me and lie to me.
Sometimes I feel disgusted with OW for deliberately destroying our marriage, but sometimes I actually feel sorry for her. I doubt she realizes how much my MLCer is in this for personal gain. My MLCer has always been an expert on keeping an innocent countenance, but the first thing he told me at bomb drop was that he had picked her because she had a house and because of her family connections. Then of course he lost his job and now she is supporting him the last two years. So not exactly pure love, more like purely economic interest.
Ha , her family and connections are sure gonna be impressed with him now LJ. living of their daughter , leaving his family.
l'm surprised she hasn't given him the flick already .
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My H is home for the weekend to visit DS16 more than anything else but we have had a few talks which I will journal about later when he leaves again tomorrow. One of the topics was OW. Mainly because I wanted to test the temperature so to speak.
I will try to use his words where possible.
H, for the first time, admitted to a "buzz" from the relationship. It was "secret, sexual and when exposed to the light of day Sordid". In his mind he wants/wanted it to be more than just that because he knew it was "stupid and wrong on so many levels". Yet, if the OW hadn't outed him, "it would probably have gone on until it blew up in his face just in the way it did blow up". He looked in the mirror and asked himself " WTF am I doing?" but at the same time felt that he was gaining freedom to do what he wanted.
H said his perspective changed more the further out from the exposure it got. It was like he could not see or did not want to see how stupid and wrong it was, he needed to be "in lurrve" and hold on to that in fornt of me so it would not be so sordid.
I am quite sure his perspective will change again but in which direction at which hour or day? No clue. I hope and pray it progresses to the point he recognises she was nothing more than a bump in the road.
Right now though, it's a bump that I would go over multiple times with a heavy duty steamroller till its flat!
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Attaching
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I hope and pray it progresses to the point he recognises she was nothing more than a bump in the road.
Right now though, it's a bump that I would go over multiple times with a heavy duty steamroller till its flat!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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After reading some of the posts, and pondering the matter. I had to bring something up. One of the most famous OW's was Nicole Brown Simpson. OJ Simpson's second wife. I believe that he killed her, but that's not my point. And, least we not forget Leona Helmsley the tax evading OW from Hell. But, I won't go there. On with Nicole.
You didn't read about him being abusive to his first wife. I thought that this was odd. He was abusive to Nicole, but not the first one. Why? Because he could trust his first wife. Nicole did indeed have a brief affair with Ron Goldman, the kid that was killed with her.
This really begs the question: How do they really treat the OP, and how are they treated when we aren't around to see?
Yes, in the beginning they get treated like they are angels, and treat us like we're the devil himself. But, think about it for a moment. If they're really so happy, then why can't they treat us with dignity and respect while with the OP? They treat us like we deserve whatever they do to us, even though they are the ones in the wrong. Why the abject cruelty that many of us have been faced with? I mean, if they're really so happy, fulfilled, etc...then why not just leave without all the fanfare? Why the limbo of Clinging or Vanishing?
I read on another website about a woman who has stayed with her OM for the past 17yrs and regrets leaving her XH. Why did she stay with the OM? Because she didn't want to be alone. So, I don't think that any who stay with the OP does if for love, or because they're happy. Based on everything that I've read, it's due to desperation. Pure and simple. By the way, XH is thriving now that she's gone ( pay attention gentlemen, success is truly the best revenge ), and she's the one miserable. :o
They had a good spouse, and left because they didn't want to deal with themselves, and got stuck. They're miserable, and they can't get out. They stayed because there was no where else to go. When there's no where else to go, you have no choice but to stay put. They didn't want to humble themselves and admit that they made a mistake, and worse: were wrong. They don't want to have to face that fact that it was their inner demons that caused this, and now the demons have won.
Just my 2cents.
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I know my H is in a world of pain, according to what he tells his sister. The OW is abusive, physically and emotionally, and definitely has borderline personality disorder. There is a lot of screaming and she throws things at H. He doesn't tell me anything and I don't ask, but he has revealed a few things such as he can't go anywhere without her approval and he cannot stay long, even with this family. Never stays overnight. Oh and OW got pregnant deliberately when they were about to break up. She's Irish so no birth control and he was too stupid to think of using a condom, assuming she was using something. She doesn't work,doesn't drive, doesn't even clean the house. And she wants to put the baby in a crèche because he's served the purpose now and she wants nothing to do with him. H once told me how easy going the baby is yet she complains non stop. Very controlling. My SIL says they break up all the time, tho still live together. All his choice tho!
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Pure and simple. By the way, XH is thriving now that she's gone ( pay attention gentlemen, success is truly the best revenge ), and she's the one miserable. :o
My3G's post makes a lot of sense and I think most of what she's written applies to my wife. I've been told by others that they think she's already miserable and stays for the reasons My3G lists; she doesn't want to be alone; doesn't want to admit she's made a mistake; ashamed of what she's done; but I think there's more to it. I don't think they really know why they stay and that's the sad part. I think they actually believe the attraction they feel for the OP is love. ::)
I do believe I'll come out of this ok and I expect that she will be and probably already is miserable, but that doesn't bring me any satisfaction. Just dismay. I'm not interested in revenge.
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I also believe they stay with OP, simply because they feel like if they do come back it only a matter of time before you abandon them for OM/OW as payback.
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I also believe they stay with OP, simply because they feel like if they do come back it only a matter of time before you abandon them for OM/OW as payback.
They do believe that we think and act like them. So, yes, I guess that would be a legitimate fear. Not a real one, but if I treated someone they way they did...
They violated trust, so, I guess they feel that we have an axe to grind. They don't forgive, so they figure we can't.
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I do believe I'll come out of this ok and I expect that she will be and probably already is miserable, but that doesn't bring me any satisfaction. Just dismay. I'm not interested in revenge.
This is how I feel too.
I also know it's not utopia over there with OW but yet he stays. I don't know if he feels trapped there? Or if it's too humiliating to admit he was wrong? Or he just can't be bothered / is not capable of making the effort to leave.
I saw a psychic a while back. She said to me "she's not easy, she doesn't do nearly as much for him as you did, but he thinks he's found his soul mate" ... So there is perhaps some kind if emotional connection I suppose.
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I don't think it's an emotional connection. I think it's a subconscious compulsion that they misinterpret as love.
The trauma therapist I'm seeing thinks my wife was traumatized as a young child by her monster of a father, that his death triggered that buried trauma, and that she's with a narcissistic abuser reenacting that trauma in an attempt to heal the trauma. I've studied the theory and it makes sense and I saw the compulsion last summer and fall. It didn't make sense then but it does now. She's trying to make her dead father love her but she thinks she's drawn to the OM because she loves him. It's like an addiction. It makes me sad and sick at the same time.
Another factor that I think comes into play is conditional love, They learn when they're young that they won't be loved unless they act in a certain way so they can't believe that we could still love them after what they've done. My wife told me this summer that she couldn't believe D31 and I were so close because I used to get upset with D31 when she insisted on dating a string of losers. I told her that I may not have liked D31's behavior but that didn't mean I ever stopped loving D31. I wrote D31 a letter 10 years ago telling her that I didn't approve of her behavior but that I would always love her. D31 gets it and she and I are close. My wife doesn't get it. That's not what she learned. :(
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The trauma therapist I'm seeing thinks my wife was traumatized as a young child by her monster of a father, that his death triggered that buried trauma, and that she's with a narcissistic abuser reenacting that trauma in an attempt to heal the trauma. I've studied the theory and it makes sense and I saw the compulsion last summer and fall. It didn't make sense then but it does now. She's trying to make her dead father love her but she thinks she's drawn to the OM because she loves him. It's like an addiction. It makes me sad and sick at the same time.
Wow, pretty knotted psychology! I've never seen an OP relationship described as scientifically as that, but it would make sense - it would explain why it's an addiction... But like trying to roll a stone uphill, it's just never going to work. Agree it's very sad and sickening. Helps me understand what might be going on in the love nest. Thanks MBIB.
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The sad thing is that they aren't happy yet they stay in an abusive relationship and they don't even realize why. And standard therapy doesn't help because the memories that are causing the reenactment aren't just repressed, they're fragmented when they're stored and can't be retrieved by the conscious mind. Yet they linger in the subconscious mind. Also, because of the way they're stored there's no history associated with the unpleasant feelings so the feelings seem like they're current instead of being related to events that occurred decades earlier.
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I didn't know that - about standard therapy not helping. Are the memories fragmented at the time the trauma happens? Or do they become fragmented later on, as life passes and the MLC-er re-writes their own history to make it less distressing?
So, if there's no reaching these memories, how do they ever recover?
Does the process referred to here perhaps take the MLC-er to a place of recognition where they have to realise, finally, that something is not right. At that point, they suspect the memories are there, but don't necessarily have to confront them, just realise their thinking has been skewed?
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Maybe they need those regression/hypnosis type of therapies. Problem is you have to first identify that you have a problem and then be willing to take whatever therapy you might need, and then some.
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My understanding of this is that memories are not stored in a single location in the brain but in separate locations. The details, things we can put into words, are stored in one location, while sensations and feelings associated with an event are stored elsewhere. These are combined during retrieval.
During a traumatic event or during a prolonged period of high stress an individual may go into a dissociative state. This is more common in young children. While in a dissociative state feelings and sensations are stored while the details are not, thus the memory becomes fragmented. The conscious mind uses the detail portion to reassemble the memory and without the detail the conscious mind can't access the memory fragments. These fragments can still affect the subconscious mind, are experienced as current because they have no history associated with them, and can affect current behaviors. Surfacing of these fragments is situational and is based on the occurrence of a triggering event. Traumatic Reenactment occurs when an individual is driven subconsciously to place themselves into a situation that is similar to the traumatic event in order to try to process the stored memory fragments. This can work in a controlled environment and is referred to as Mastery. When done inadvertently in the real world it seldom works.
Treatment requires tools designed specifically for the retrieval and processing of traumatic memories such as Traumatic Memory Inventory (TMI) and Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) and can't happen unless the individual chooses to seek treatment. My therapist is an expert in the use of EMDR to treat trauma and teaches EMDR techniques at a local university.
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Bit off topic but thinking of the thread title.
I used to say to H, "You should just go find yourself some woman in a bar who drinks all day, laughs at your jokes and thinks your amazing!!!"
Didn't know he would take it literally!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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MBIB, how on earth does anything to do with the EYES help with trauma? I'm fascinated to know...
Snow - I too said things like that that I now regret big time! Casually made suggestions...
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Snow - I too said things like that that I now regret big time!
Oh I don't regret it, not at all. Just shows who I thought he would be a better match with. Funny isn't it. Maybe I already knew that we were growing apart and I wasn't the person he needed, he needed someone who would settle for very little in the standards department. Maybe he got her after all.
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Ha! Very true... And still on topic in this thread about life with the OW! :)
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Snow - I too said things like that that I now regret big time!
Oh I don't regret it, not at all. Just shows who I thought he would be a better match with. Funny isn't it. Maybe I already knew that we were growing apart and I wasn't the person he needed, he needed someone who would settle for very little in the standards department. Maybe he got her after all.
\
Very well said.
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The trauma therapist I'm seeing thinks my wife was traumatized as a young child by her monster of a father, that his death triggered that buried trauma, and that she's with a narcissistic abuser reenacting that trauma in an attempt to heal the trauma. I've studied the theory and it makes sense and I saw the compulsion last summer and fall. It didn't make sense then but it does now. She's trying to make her dead father love her but she thinks she's drawn to the OM because she loves him. It's like an addiction. It makes me sad and sick at the same time.
Wow, pretty knotted psychology! I've never seen an OP relationship described as scientifically as that, but it would make sense - it would explain why it's an addiction... But like trying to roll a stone uphill, it's just never going to work. Agree it's very sad and sickening. Helps me understand what might be going on in the love nest. Thanks MBIB.
Same thing with my husband. He started slowly changing when my fil started to age rapidly (loss of memory, losing weight, general bad health), then my fil had a stoke. Husband started cheating on me just about a month after his fathers stroke.
My husband and fil always had a strained relationship. My fil also left his family when my husband was in grade school. My husband was the oldest and was expected to take care of the family. He started working when he was 10. My husband was a high achiever, high grades, excelled at sports, music, very mechanical, you name it he did it. He still was never good enough. His father would beat him at the slightest misstep. My husband said his memories of growing up was watching milk drip off the table, b/c he would spill it everynight. He would spill it b/c he was nervous that he was going to get hit for spilling his milk, it happened every night, a vicious cycle.
My husbands biggest fear, one he talked about endlessly was not having a good relationship with his kids. He did not want to be like his father, he wanted his son to be his best friend. Long story short (might already be to late for that) about a month after BD, I contacted husband b/c our son was having depression issues (he has had them in the past but BD made it really bad), I was afraid to come home to our son hanging himself. My husband's response was, "maybe you should talk to him"!!?!! He never called our son about it, never talked to his best friend of 40+ years who talked to our son, it was like he didn't even care. I was shocked beyond words. That's when I knew it was more than he "fell out of love".
:-[
Sorry for the rant, MBIB, I'm grateful for your posts, you seem to have a lot of knowledge on the subject. Thank you.
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I was shocked beyond words. That's when I knew it was more than he "fell out of love".
:-[
I have had a few "aha" moments like that on this journey. People think I am crazy because I still try to believe in the essence of who he was/could be. It is more about those moments that I am stunned and realize this is bigger than he just fell out of love with me.
My friend who had her own crisis said the men she became entangled were not her soul mates, they were a distraction. A way to keep her busy and distracted from how she ran away and missed her husband and child. She was convinced the one was her soul mate. Convinced. Now she is embarassed by him and her involvement with him. She has nothing to do with him at all. She closed that door and did not return to it. It took her months to do so. But once she did. she did.
She said she wasn't happy while she was engaging in this life. But she did have some fun moments. She finally realized that there wasn't enough fun moments to silence the unhappiness.
Maybe hopefully, ours will get to that point sooner than later...
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The trauma therapist I'm seeing thinks my wife was traumatized as a young child by her monster of a father, that his death triggered that buried trauma, and that she's with a narcissistic abuser reenacting that trauma in an attempt to heal the trauma. I've studied the theory and it makes sense and I saw the compulsion last summer and fall. It didn't make sense then but it does now. She's trying to make her dead father love her but she thinks she's drawn to the OM because she loves him. It's like an addiction. It makes me sad and sick at the same time.
This is exactly my current MLCer. He had an abusive mother and now he is with an abusive, insane OW. I have often wondered if he maybe has to be with her to reenact his childhood in order to go past it. OW is also very much like his S19's mom, in that they are the same build and have the same hair color...and even the same name.
So mine is living with a cross between his mother and an old girlfriend...both of whom he hates. I'm thinking we're going to see the explosion of that relationship at least 70 miles away. lol
I have also read that to fix this, they need Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.
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MBIB, how on earth does anything to do with the EYES help with trauma? I'm fascinated to know...
I have also read that to fix this, they need Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.
UKS, be careful about encouraging me. I love to discuss what I know about this stuff but I'm not an expert, just an enthusiast.
I think the MLCer needs a complex of treatments and any one by itself may make it worse. CBT is used for treatment of trauma but I read that it's not effective up to 50% of the time. I know it didn't work for me. But I think it would be useful for the MLCer to treat other issues they usually have that are also related to childhood stress or trauma, things like passive aggressive behavior, conflict avoidance, low self esteem and accommodation / self-image issues.
EMDR and the EYES. They say the eyes are a window to the soul. I don't know if that's true but what I did learn in the neurobiology course I'm taking that I thought was very interesting is that looking into the eyes allows a doctor to directly view the brain because the retina is formed from neural tissue and is considered an extension of the brain. I don't know what that has to do with EMDR but it might be useful to keep in mind.
EMDR involves moving the eyes back and forth while trying to remember traumatic events. It was accidentally discovered that doing this allows these traumatic memories that often are not accessible using other methods to be retrieved and properly processed. They don't really know how or why it works but they believe it may simulate REM (Rapid Eye Movement) sleep, the time during which the brain is active and dreaming occurs.
I've been treated twice using EMDR. The first time was in the mid 90s for PTSD related to a car accident when we thought we were going to lose our youngest daughter. For 7 years I experienced anxiety, panic attacks, depression, and at times would wake up screaming. It was a pretty bad time. I was treated using AD meds, anti-anxiety meds, therapy including CBT, and nothing really helped. Finally, I was being treated by a Psychologist who taught at a nearby university and he said he was going to try something new that he didn't know a lot about but that they had been having a lot of success with. At that time it involved a bank of lights that would turn on and off and you would follow the lights with your eyes. It was amazing. After being treated with EMDR my problems almost completely disappeared. I would occasionally experience a little depression during October but otherwise I did well until BD 9 months ago. This time, after months of therapy didn't seem to be helping I requested a referral to a trauma specialist trained in EMDR.
So far we've only used EMDR once because so much seems to come up between sessions that it seems we spend most of each session trying to process recent activity. The one time we used EMDR was very interesting. We focused on an incident from my childhood when I almost drowned in a pond. It was only mildly bothersome but I couldn't remember much about it. I couldn't swim at the time and was in the shallow portion of the pond. I stepped in a hole and went under water. I was able to kick off, bob to the surface, yell for help, then I'd go back under. That's all I could remember.
Instead of the lights my therapist held up two fingers and moved them back and forth in front of my face. I followed them with my eyes while trying to remember the pond incident. Details slowly returned. By the time we finished I could see that the sky was blue, the sun was shining brightly, I could see the people laying on the beach, I could see my father running around the edge of the pond to get to me, and I could see my oldest brother swimming towards me and he was practically flying across the water. He was first to get to me. I could also remember them laying me on the beach and clearing the water from my lungs. The weird thing is that the bottom of the hole must have been soft because I could feel the mud squishing between my toes when I would push off. We did this at the end of the session and then I left. Another weird thing that happened was that for about the next hour memories from my past kept popping up like rapid fire, stuff totally unrelated to the pond incident. It was kind of neat at first but after a while I wished I could turn it off. It eventually faded away.
Later I talked with another of my brothers. We had never discussed this incident yet he remembered it and described it almost exactly as I had remembered it. In particular, he described our oldest brother as having practically flown across the pond. I mentioned the rapid fire memories to my therapist at the next session and she said that was normal and she suggested I get a notebook and journal those memories that pop up. I'm not sure if I could do that, though, because they were really coming fast.
And this concludes another episode of too weird not to be true. I hope I didn't take this too far off topic. If so, blame UKS, she encouraged it. :)
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That is fascinating stuff! I just wish there was a way an LBS could get a MLCer to try any of it. I know mine won't come up with it on his own.
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I think if there's one thing that might have an effect by itself, it's EMDR. Sometime's there's a window at the beginning where they're willing to try something. I would send them straight to a good trauma therapist. It might not ba appropriate for all of them but I suspect it would be for most.
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My guy was always willing to try things I suggested, maybe not right away, but after he had time to think about it. I had to wait for the right moment though, usually after he monstered and then felt bad about it, then I could quietly suggest we try this or that.
We really had a good thing going that way, it just got so that I was overwhelmed and couldn't think straight anymore before BD. Had I known about this back then, I could've suggested it the last monster time instead of telling him I didn't know what we should do anymore. I think he gave up hope when I said that..not that we can do all their hard work for them. I guess I don't see what would be wrong with pointing them in the right direction.
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My trauma therapist must think she could do something. She's told me several times that she wishes she had my wife in her office and once she said that she was seeing the wrong person. You might find this interesting. She called their relationship an emotional kidnapping.
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I suppose that makes sense. It's exactly what OW has done to him, emotional kidnapping. I used to see it in his eyes, like once there was this lost little boy in there behind the glass, unable to get out. I saw it last summer one time. He looked like he was about ready to cry, but he didn't. We had just been having a glass of wine & a snack together and when I looked up, he was staring at me with that look....the little boy in there and the utter sadness. I will never forget it.
Now, he doesn't get a chance to come as much so I don't see that kind of thing anymore. OW feels pretty threatened by me and is monitoring his phone and keeping tabs on his whereabouts.
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This may sound crazy but you brought it up. I swear to God once last summer I looked into my wife's eyes and it was like I could see the old her in their begging me to help her. I haven't told that to anyone.
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First off.
You have to quit imagining that you have anything to do with her going insane.
Then? She was looking for you to save her. She married you believing you could save her.
She needed salvation long before you ever met her................
Now? You are in the same boat as the rest of us.
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This may sound crazy but you brought it up. I swear to God once last summer I looked into my wife's eyes and it was like I could see the old her in their begging me to help her. I haven't told that to anyone.
Ya, it's the kind of story nobody believes unless they see it for themselves. I KNOW it was not the wine...I only had like a half a glass.
I think they probably all are hoping we will help in some way, but there's only so far one person can help another before the edge gets too slippery and you both fall in.
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EMDR involves moving the eyes back and forth while trying to remember traumatic events. It was accidentally discovered that doing this allows these traumatic memories that often are not accessible using other methods to be retrieved and properly processed.
A friend of mine's daughter had this treatment when she was at a clinic specializing in eating disorders. Her MLC father's behaviour (he abandoned his wife and two children) was thought to have triggered the eating problem/cutting, etc. :(
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I don't believe I had anything to do with my wife going insane. I think it's pretty clear that I blame her monster of a father.
It is true that I'm in the same boat as everyone else but I'm not afraid to rock the boat if I think it might do some good. :)
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This may sound crazy but you brought it up. I swear to God once last summer I looked into my wife's eyes and it was like I could see the old her in their begging me to help her. I haven't told that to anyone.
Not at all B . Those windows l talked about with mine , she did actually ask me for help back just after bd. And once or twice around the 6-10mth mark.
lf l had the answer in the first time in particular. l desperately searched my mind for the right things but to no avail .
There were times though, it literally could have saved my marriage , she was that fragile . it was all about emotion and hurt with mine and my counselors confirmed that many times.
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I have had an insight into their life together by reading the long text thread between them that went back to when he first left.
OW was a total control freak. Loads of text messages saying Call Me and loads of others saying Where are U. Also telling him f.u. By text because she could not get the bread out of the breadmaking pan. :o
He has not spoken about her much since his return but I get the feeling he knew it wouldn't work with her long term. I said to him about when I had my seizure and fell down the stairs and had a fractured skull from it that he could have come around to find me dead at the bottom of the stairs and that would have been awful for him. I said I expect you would have had to stay with her then. He said I know it wouldn't have worked with her long term.
He seems to be over her this time. I have noticed a big difference this time then when he returned to me in 2013 after being with her a month. Having lived with her for five months she started to show her true controlling ways.
He has a special pillow that is one of those neck type pillows and she made him hide it in the wardrobe and get it out each night because she said it made the bedroom look untidy. I have seen pictures of her Flat on the internet as it is up for sale and she is a total tidy freak. Only problem is since he has returned home he is even more untidy then he was when he left. It's driving me nuts.
So No life with the OW/OM is not all sweetness and roses. They are with selfish and in many cases narcissistic individuals and that wears them down in the end.
Take care
HMT
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I was shocked beyond words. That's when I knew it was more than he "fell out of love".
:-[
I have had a few "aha" moments like that on this journey. People think I am crazy because I still try to believe in the essence of who he was/could be. It is more about those moments that I am stunned and realize this is bigger than he just fell out of love with me.
My friend who had her own crisis said the men she became entangled were not her soul mates, they were a distraction. A way to keep her busy and distracted from how she ran away and missed her husband and child. She was convinced the one was her soul mate. Convinced. Now she is embarassed by him and her involvement with him. She has nothing to do with him at all. She closed that door and did not return to it. It took her months to do so. But once she did. she did.
She said she wasn't happy while she was engaging in this life. But she did have some fun moments. She finally realized that there wasn't enough fun moments to silence the unhappiness.
Maybe hopefully, ours will get to that point sooner than later...
Curious about what happened in the end. Back to her H?
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Willitgetbetter,
She tried, he wouldn't let her come home. He is too destroyed by it all and does not trust that he will survive again if she did and then left again. He has found a new relationship. He stood for over 2 1/2 years and only when she told him the time she was going to file and completely shut him out did he open himself up to another.
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I guess when you think about it there has to be some good moments with a ow/om or they wouldn't have stayed with them. Couldn't be all dome and gloom.
In the beginning there has to be excitement and addiction. As we all experience with someone new. It's after they get to know the person that they can see them clearly.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUngLgGRJpo
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In the beginning there has to be excitement and addiction. As we all experience with someone new. It's after they get to know the person that they can see them clearly.
I suspect it's probably way better than anything we've ever experienced. I believe most OPS are narcissistic, narcissists are experts at love bombing at the beginning in order to strongly hook their victim, and I think the MLCers usually start out depressed, so I think it must be like going from 0 to 160 mph in a quarter mile, a totally exhilarating mind rush like they've never experienced. I think that's why it's so difficult for mlcers to disconnect from the affair, because in the beginning the fantasy was real, or at least the OP made it feel that way. Then they keep the mlcer longing for those days to return and believing that it's their fault that the fantasy has gone away.
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Wow, like a drug the OM / OW seems to be like. :-[
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my h has likened his relationship with ow as an addiction. he recognizs it as such which is why he goes back and.forth as much as he does. he has said he needs to get her poison out of his system so he can leave her.
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I'm pretty sure mine looks just like that bird in the video. OW has him mesmerized somehow, but I know him and if he were awake through all of this, he'd never step anywhere near her.
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my h has likened his relationship with ow as an addiction. he recognizs it as such which is why he goes back and.forth as much as he does. he has said he needs to get her poison out of his system so he can leave her.
No idea how it is for H and OW but H has an addictive personality, can't do things in a balanced way, has to go overboard and do things ad nauseam, so would think this would be no different. When we met he was stuck on me too and I didn't mind, so I guess even if it is volatile, their relationship with OW is "real love".
When you think of an addict, sure they know their drug isn't good for them, but there's no better high like it, and they will go for that high at all costs. There are also "functioning" alcoholics who maintain a somewhat "normal" existence, good jobs, no-one would ever depict them as alcoholics and they fool some people, but underneath they are still alcoholics with addictions.
I wonder how easy it is to give up that relationship, especially if OP is obsessive and doing whatever they can to get them back, and even more so if they are looked at as being a cash cow.
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I believe that there is a massive rush initially , to be sexually involved ith a new person after 35 years of marriage . That this "rush" is extremely powerfull , lust filled and addictive . I truly believe that this new excitement , passion, desire etc .. must be mind blowing . My husband has insisted for 16 months .. he felt none of that . Hmmmm?. We have had ragefull words .. does he think I am stupid ? . He will not alter his story " just to make me happy or match up to stories i have read etc" . He will not move from this statement no matter what I believe to be true . He said " I guess it was exciting initially , but was just sex and at the end , there was no sex at all ". he remembers NO mind blowing sex, no addiction . He was there ( he thinks ) because she made him feel like he was "okay" ( not a bad person ) , he was admired, she thought he was awsome and was always incredibly excited to see him. And then that fizzled . He left her like she was roadkill, never looked back, never had any contact again. HARD to believe .......
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barbiedoll,
I think they can go both ways. Yours use her to feel better about himself, no great, exciting sex..but I do believe there are also men who do get such a rush being with a new woman and their sex life is exciting. At least for awhile..
Either way the partner is addicting.
I have never understood how they become so addicted to these ow's/om's. I can understand them maybe thinking their in love but after realizing it's not what they want they still seem addicted enough to stay with them. They try to leave them but go right back to them. Sometimes multiple times. I still don't understand why they stay addicted to them.
I must be slow. lol
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thunder
my thoughts exactly my h is still with ow and has become a vanisher just a few months ago he was telling me he didnt want to go through with divorce etc now he is still with the trollop he lived at home for 2 years then holtels then has lived with her for a year now and it was my birthday yesterday and I got not a jot form him no happy birthday nothing or even a card yet at christmas he was buying me the perfume he used to buy me all the time , sending me cutesy christmas card then all of a sudden he doesnt feel anything for me he has never said that he loves ow though so am i just imagining this is amlc its been 3 years now and I really dont know anymore ,
he can have his addiction with the trolllop but oh i dont know anymore. hugs
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I think Op's are like candy to mlcers - the sugar is addictive but they are hollow calories. They get a "sugar" high from them in the sort term but over time all that happens is that the mlcer gets cavities - starts to rot from the inside out. Don't be mistaken that all is good with our mlcers - just by looking at someone you don't see the cavities (rot) but that doesn't mean that there isn't a lot of pain on the inside.
Also for us that have mlcers who self medicate with alcohol this is another form of hollow calories.
Living off this "diet" is unsustainable.
Kia Kaha - stay strong
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I am seeing this addiction play out at work. An MLCer left his wife of 17 years and 2 kids to be with a colleague. She is about 10 years younger and they are in that early rush of infatuation. Everyone knows whats going on at work but they are both still trying to be respectable and keep it secret. They had quite the flirt fest in my office the other day and I nearly puked. I want to tell them both I know but haven't figured out how to do this without dipping someone else in the crap (because she is the only one they've told).
At this point in time, the secrecy is fuelling the fantasy. They are both scrambling to be popular which on the outside may look like they are finally happy and getting their lives together. To me, I know they are seeking approval. My very astute colleague is even taken in by them at this point and said "I don't know, maybe it will work". That's how convincing these guys are without even saying anything. It's because they totally believe it right now.
As much as it is very uncomfortable for me to have to deal with both of them and still be professional, I get to peek into this other world and can see that this situation is a house of cards like no other. I find myself thinking, I hope his wife can just back off for a little while and pretend he is in a coma because he needs to do this part without her going beserk and spurring them on. The 2 of them need to be ignored because that would be the biggest hit to their ego's right now and there is absolutely no use trying to hold them accountable because they are not in the right space for it.
I get the very distinct impression that his wife really holds all the cards here but I know from being on the other side of this that we DO NOT KNOW this at the time. She is the one with the history and this will be terrifying to the OW. The OW in this situation is one of those ones that will kill the soul of the wife because she does not look like an affair down. She is smart, sexy and intelligent but she is also controlling and kind of scary if you get on the wrong side of her.
I will make sure I report more as the situation between these 2 pretenders gets uglier because it WILL get uglier.
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Hopeandfaith, that's awful. I have also witnessed it all play out in real life. Sad.
My H's best friend at work went through a MLC. I only realized this after BD :o He was married for 10 or so years, and had a 2 year old daughter at the time when he bombed his wife. I remember he had told my H that they had mutually decided to split and that they both just lost feelings. Yeah sure! Immediately after, he started dating one of their female co-workers - I mean, IMMEDIATELY after. Obviously something was going on prior to BD. He also started smoking cigarettes... and I remember my H saying, 'Who the hell starts smoking cigarettes at 40, I gotta talk to that guy'. My H's friend was clearly going though some 'changes'. Anyway, his wife was livid when she found out that he was seeing someone already, and was very revengeful apparently (according to what my H's friend told him ::).
H's friend and OW dated for 2 years, and then she started pushing for him to get a D and marry her. We went out with them a couple of times and I remember her saying, 'It's about time already. What are you waiting for? Why haven't you D'd her already?' I pretended I didn't hear :o My H pretended he didn't hear either :o
They started living together and after about a year he D'd his wife and then they got married shortly after - maybe 6 months afterwards?! They looked happy at the wedding, she got pregnant, they had a baby, and about 1 year after that both looked miserable. My H reported that she was never home anymore and that they spent no time together, according to his friend.
After BD, my H told me that it was this friend, who repeatedly said, 'You're making a big mistake! I don't agree with what you're doing', when he told him that he had ended things with me.... I guess he knows that the grass is NOT greener on the other side.... Life with the OW may start off great... but eventually the rose coloured glasses come off ::)
From what I know about his sitch, it sounds like his wife would not be open to reconciling.
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I think what we have to remember is these mlcers are trying to re create something from their past that they could not deal with at that time.
I think they need these ow to do just that, when they leave us they are in escape and avoid mode, we cant help them go back because we are nice and they cant re create with us, in comes the job of ow.
The relationship with them is meant to get bad so they can get over whatever they are avoiding, they need to create a volatile environment to go back or at least an environment similar to the one in childhood whatever that was.
What we look at is the dynamics of an affair, when really that has little impact, ow is there to serve the purpose of facing childhood issues and you wouldnt want them to do that with you because they would then think it was you, thats why she is the bandaid, she serves the purpose of his healing but in doing so also becomes the enemy, the one that caused his wrongs he has to get over.
No way does he want to do that with his wife who he loves, but yes pretty sure he will also feel guilt towards the ow when it all goes pear shaped.
x
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Crazyjourney, this is what I have been thinking all along. My MLCer is living with his mother again. Something is bound to implode.
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When I spoke to OW recently I got this weird Mother vibe from her when she spoke about H , right from the start of this I said he was looking for a Mother figure in OW . She is older then him and has 3 grown up children .
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When I spoke to OW recently I got this weird Mother vibe from her when she spoke about H , right from the start of this I said he was looking for a Mother figure in OW . She is older then him and has 3 grown up children .
I can't imagine speaking to the girl. The one time I saw her, I pretended she wasn't there, she just stood with her head down while I spoke to husband.
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i have never seen ow and same as you Nah couldnt imagine EVER speaking to her my son doesnt want to meet her eithere he has seen her on facebook and was not impressed and has tolld his dad he NEVER wants anything to do with her
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I must add it was not a planned conversation it just kind of happened , but I have to say it was quite an eye opener .
:)
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My MLCer was in the hospital last fall right after BD and I was at his bedside scooping ice chips in his mouth when the OW whipped into the room, saying she brought his phone cord. She had to come from like 70 miles away to deliver that...and he would've known that I had an extra at home. His parents were there then too. It was quite the special moment.
I have not seen her since, which is probably good for all involved.
I do wish I could send her an anonymous message as to how much he "loves" her while he's visiting me, but I will refrain from showing my crazy. lol
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i know what you mean pofas i would love to see ow face if i sent her ALL the things my h sent me and told me how he wishes he had never met her, funny thing is he still with her so his loss
i dont understand that bit still how can you just stay somewhere when you tell your son your not happy and tell your wife too but stay with the thing that you blew your family apart for :-X :o
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I can't imagine speaking to the girl. The one time I saw her, I pretended she wasn't there, she just stood with her head down while I spoke to husband.
Nice. Nice. Nice.
That's all.
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Evidently, hubs life with the OW has started to implode. At least that's what our daughter tells me.
He's very different from the man that left here high on love, and his new woman.
Daughter thinks he dosent spend much time with her anymore, guess her husband and kid kinda spoiled the dream.
He's very quiet these days, to himself, and says he dosent make a move without Consulting God?!! And he dosent look foreward, can't see thru the fog. Looks back from time to time. But never foreward.
I always thought once the relationship played out, he would come back..... Wrong! I don't think he wants anyone at this point. :-[
Drinking heavily, and it shows. So happy life with ow? I think not
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My H has never looked more sad, depressed or unhappy since I've known him as he has in the last 10 months or so. Just like a broken soul. Gasping for air, looking for the light. Funny I used to be ticked off at him now I just pity him. He's a sad individual.
Guess the "thrill" is gone for them. Oh well, have fun with that H! I've read texts she's sent him and she's VERY demanding and childish. Very insecure, very untrusting (gasp), oh well, his bed, he can lie in it.
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Attaching because this subject intrigues me. Mine still denies his OW is anything other than "a friend" after three years.
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SC....my W is doing/does the same thing. She even told me that she knows their R is and will go nowhere. She still professes her love for me, yet is deep in the tunnel and stays with him when I have our son. :o :o
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I think what we have to remember is these mlcers are trying to re create something from their past that they could not deal with at that time.
I think they need these ow to do just that, when they leave us they are in escape and avoid mode, we cant help them go back because we are nice and they cant re create with us, in comes the job of ow.
The relationship with them is meant to get bad so they can get over whatever they are avoiding, they need to create a volatile environment to go back or at least an environment similar to the one in childhood whatever that was.
What we look at is the dynamics of an affair, when really that has little impact, ow is there to serve the purpose of facing childhood issues and you wouldnt want them to do that with you because they would then think it was you, thats why she is the bandaid, she serves the purpose of his healing but in doing so also becomes the enemy, the one that caused his wrongs he has to get over.
No way does he want to do that with his wife who he loves, but yes pretty sure he will also feel guilt towards the ow when it all goes pear shaped.
I pray that OW is like H's mother ;D. That would make my day!!! I bet she is. Makes sense then why we don't understand why they pick who they do - but within themselves subconsciously, they are attracted to the very thing they have been avoiding as it is too painful. It would explain their obsession and inability to leave OW/OM until they dealt with the underlying issue, and when it is done, they have no need for them anymore.
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The McFling (OW) that my husband got involved with has a long history of wackadoo wrapped up in a bit of phycho . My husband told her on 2 ocassions " I have to figure out a way to go home and fix my marriage " . She ignored these statements and continue to sleep with him etc .( But then again , so did he ).They saw me in a resturant . Apparrently she said "oh my god, you still love your wife " based on your reaction. He nodded and became emotional ( likely sh&tty pants hoping I do not see him )Still, she pursued him. WTF? What is truly wrong with these women ? Who would do that???
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Having a hard time today. Anyone have any idea the reason for the difference between the ones that admit that they are leaving for OW and the ones who deny her completely no matter whether you disclose factual information or not. Mine is the latter. Wouldn't admit leaving for her or that there was even a relationship. And still won't admit he is living with her or even in a relationship now.
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I understand WIGB. My H asked our children to meet OW within first month of him moving her here. OW has been married 3x. Of course, H met her through a childhood buddy who's been single most of his adult life. My H's sister said H was the golden boy of the family. But he always stayed over at his buddy's house because parents were "cool and liked to party". The OW involved with H is 42 and has a grandchild. OW last divorce was 2013. H met her Oct 2014. Moved her here in Jan 2015. H said he wanted to be single at BD. But moved OW here within a month. H took S23(autism) into the apartment last week while OW was gone and S23 said pictures of her kids were hung all over the place. I know she wants my house and my kids. It will not happen. She's a habitual home wrecker. So nauseating. Just so sad that things are moving so quickly towards a D for us.
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Having a hard time today. Anyone have any idea the reason for the difference between the ones that admit that they are leaving for OW and the ones who deny her completely no matter whether you disclose factual information or not. Mine is the latter. Wouldn't admit leaving for her or that there was even a relationship. And still won't admit he is living with her or even in a relationship now.
Mine acted dumb & denied everything when I found out about the OW. I told him after that that I did not want to even know she exists if he was planning to come here. He did not tell me when he moved in with her...but when I did find out & ask, he said he thought I knew. Apparently, I have magical mind reading powers I did not know about.
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Attaching because this subject intrigues me. Mine still denies his OW is anything other than "a friend" after three years.
SC....my W is doing/does the same thing. She even told me that she knows their R is and will go nowhere. She still professes her love for me, yet is deep in the tunnel and stays with him when I have our son. :o :o
I think that they really see them as friends - my H does and says the same things. He won't commit to her - she is a 'friend' with benefits.
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Mine told me he'd never marry OW.
He also said he'd never live with her either, and here they are...living together in the funeral home, with a garage he won't park his MLC truck close to because a good push might bring the building down.
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My wife didn't change her mailing her mailing address until 6 months after BD when I was served with divorce papers and told her not to contact me. I just received a copy of her tax forms and her mail goes to a PO box now instead of going to the om's house where she lives. She still often refers to him as her friend to D34 and hasn't mentioned him to me since BD.
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mine told me and I still hear every last detail of all their drama. I learned today he's having trouble keeping it up. as in he cant at all. he found out about her little porn addiction and since then he can't have sex. makes me laugh. he says it's not him cause if he thinks about me he has no issue just when he's with her. nice to know right. good thing I don't care. all I do us sit back and laugh and tell him well what did you expect.
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i know what you mean pofas i would love to see ow face if i sent her ALL the things my h sent me and told me how he wishes he had never met her, funny thing is he still with her so his loss
i dont understand that bit still how can you just stay somewhere when you tell your son your not happy and tell your wife too but stay with the thing that you blew your family apart for :-X :o
I agree with wanting to see OW face when confronted with the TRUTH in black and white. I have emails from my H telling me, 'Even if I were to get together with someone else, it wouldn't be X (that's her).' 'There are things about X I don't like.' 'I liked her then....' (In other words, I don't now - and this was only 6 months after their r'ship started.)
He's never denied her, but it took him a long, long time to come out and say to S15, 'I'm seeing someone...' Then he told me 'She's not moving into my flat.' Well, it's true, she didn't. But he moved in with her 3 years later!
I have no idea whether he thinks of her in some strange compartment of 'friendship', or not. I don't think he knows! I just figure, if he was sure of her, he'd be D'd by now, wouldn't he??? The only constantly strange thing is that when I suggest he has company , ie someone to be with (eg at Christmas, Easter) he claims that is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT.
Mystifying.
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The McFling (OW) that my husband got involved with has a long history of wackadoo wrapped up in a bit of phycho . My husband told her on 2 ocassions " I have to figure out a way to go home and fix my marriage " . She ignored these statements and continue to sleep with him etc .( But then again , so did he ).They saw me in a resturant . Apparrently she said "oh my god, you still love your wife " based on your reaction. He nodded and became emotional ( likely sh&tty pants hoping I do not see him )Still, she pursued him. WTF? What is truly wrong with these women ? Who would do that???
They pick desperate OP's. Remember the H's want to be the knight in shining armor, so they pick whack jobs that make them feel like they're saving them. The W's pick men that will save them too, because of the damsel in distress drama they live.
They're all crazy, so of course they end up with crazies. I expect mine to remarry fast, because he doesn't want to be alone, and get her pregnant to seal the deal. Then once the deed is done, she'll show she's a nut and he'll be stuck. He loves the drama of fighting, and trying to be in control. He'll pick ( if he hasn't already ) some controlling b**** that will make his life miserable, and he'll do everything he can to save face. She'll play the damsel part at first, then she'll show her manipulative side. His mother's like that, the "sweet little of lady" that's manipulative as hell.
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I don't get why they would ever want to be with someone so controlling. Mine is with a complete control freak, from what I am told. I'd have been called out on half the stuff she does.
Is it some sort of turn on to have a dominant woman?
The other day when my MLCer came to pick up a load of his stuff, he got here at 9:30 and by 11:30, she was calling and asking if he was done yet and what he was doing now.
He had to come Mon-Thurs, so he had to use a personal day to do it too. He rarely took personal days for me...always had to work.
It's all so mind boggling.
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Tell you what , l am really relating to the stuff coming through here and it could explain whatever the hell my ex has going on with her om.
When she bd'd , she was at an emotional low l had never seen her even close to before - om was supposedly very gentle and well , caring . Apparently not for a married women in a mess and her destroying her daughters family and her marriage but , very caring .
And now , over 2 yrs , l can not make out for the life of me , just what they do have if anything. But friends or something casual would fit , it's the only thing that does fit.
l know she doesn't see him through the wk , where as at the start she use to see him every day.
l can't even tell if she even see's him on the wkends or if it's just friends she hangs out with now and then but he works all day Sunday till late .
Yet now and then , it's as if he has just popped up type of thing , as if they do some stuff and then it's like there's nothing again.
Nothings been adding up but this friends thing , maybe occasional fwb thing or something like that does fit.
But , then again , l've never seen w creepy before either but just before and since bd , she can be creepy and for all l know they might be full on and she's turning around and telling me she's engaged .
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Hawk, maybe you just need to do like my ex does and ask if she's still with her "fella". Lol I always chuckle because that's all he's ever called him, even though he knows his name.
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Hawk, maybe you just need to do like my ex does and ask if she's still with her "fella". Lol I always chuckle because that's all he's ever called him, even though he knows his name.
Nope , can't do it Patience , l do not wanna be on that kind of level with somebody l was with for 20 yrs of my life that's done this .
Ah , l just can't help but be dying to know just what become of the ass/h and wild love affair that was strong enough to destroy a family over tbh, that's all . lt's almost a bit of fun.
What do you mean , who's fella , yours , have you got a bf ?
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Oh hell no! I'm talking about what exH calls my MLCer. lol
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I don't get why they would ever want to be with someone so controlling. Mine is with a complete control freak, from what I am told. I'd have been called out on half the stuff she does.
Is it some sort of turn on to have a dominant woman?
The other day when my MLCer came to pick up a load of his stuff, he got here at 9:30 and by 11:30, she was calling and asking if he was done yet and what he was doing now.
He had to come Mon-Thurs, so he had to use a personal day to do it too. He rarely took personal days for me...always had to work.
It's all so mind boggling.
I think that the control part of it fuels the drama so they are getting high off of it. I was never controlling - maybe that is why he need to find an OW :o The things that I have seen OW write to H are shocking to me. I would never have said the things that she has to him - H would definitely call me out on it but I starting think that 'words' don't mean much to H anymore.
The things and places that H will go with OW boggles my mind - he would never have done them with me even if I had asked him to ??? That is one of the areas that I still struggle with - why does he do all those things with OW but he wouldn't with me?
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The things and places that H will go with OW boggles my mind - he would never have done them with me even if I had asked him to ??? That is one of the areas that I still struggle with - why does he do all those things with OW but he wouldn't with me?
I wonder the same thing, but the only explanation I have come up with is that he is a different person now. Mine told me right after BD that the old him was dead and this one is the one he is now.
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Searching, mine is the same way. Would never have done half the stuff he's doing now. He's a completely different person. I don't even know if there's an OW, but a this point, I've decided to move on. I have too much to do, and my girls and I have to get on with our lives. Will I take him back if he gets through this and wants to come back? Short answer: Hell no. Too much damage, and too many bad years behind us.
I really want to have a drama-free life. Never really had that with him. Always had a reason to blame me for something, not take personal responsibility for his own crap, and got off on fighting. I could tell that he got a rush whenever he did something particularly nasty to me. Crazy-making was something that he turned into an art form. Don't see myself ever going back to that circus anymore. Not my circus, not my monkeys. And, as I've told him numerous times since this started: you are no longer my problem. Crazy abandonment issues, and never seemed comfortable in his own skin. Did his best to invalidate me at every chance he had.
The tit for tat got old, and so did me being the problem. Won't be there for that anymore, and I feel for my OD. She and MIL will get the brunt of it now. I'm assuming that there is an OW, she can have him. Once the fairy tail is over, she'll see that she didn't get a prince, but a toad. More power to her. ;D
Working on me now. Loving the opportunity to get to do things for myself that I've never been able to do before. H was so damned needy it was exhausting. Had to be the center of attention, and God forbid anything didn't go his way. He's going to have to grow up for us to even be friends at this point. He'd also have to go through extensive therapy to even consider the remote, and I mean almost impossibility of coming back "home".
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The things and places that H will go with OW boggles my mind - he would never have done them with me even if I had asked him to ??? That is one of the areas that I still struggle with - why does he do all those things with OW but he wouldn't with me?
I wonder the same thing, but the only explanation I have come up with is that he is a different person now. Mine told me right after BD that the old him was dead and this one is the one he is now.
[/quote]
Actually, it's not strange at all. If MLC is real and it's connected to being depressed that is exactly why they are all behaving different and attaching themselves to a controlling piece of sh!t. In a rare conversation we had a few months post BD, he said that the girl was like him, that she didn't like people. First of all, since when did he not like people, and second, wow, that sounds like a fun person to be around.
I guess it's true what they say, misery loves company.
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Mine said OW was a female version of him. I don't get why anyone would want to date a version of themselves. If a guy was exactly like me, we'd both go nuts. :P
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Mine said OW was a female version of him. I don't get why anyone would want to date a version of themselves. If a guy was exactly like me, we'd both go nuts. :P
Crazy
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Mine said OW was a female version of him. I don't get why anyone would want to date a version of themselves. If a guy was exactly like me, we'd both go nuts. :P
Crazy
I KNOW!! And I was just thinking about this: he always said I was the brains behind our operation...and he's the brawn.
I can only deduce from this that there are NO BRAINS in their operation. :o ;D 8)
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Mine said OW was a female version of him. I don't get why anyone would want to date a version of themselves. If a guy was exactly like me, we'd both go nuts. :P
Crazy
I KNOW!! And I was just thinking about this: he always said I was the brains behind our operation...and he's the brawn.
I can only deduce from this that there are NO BRAINS in their operation. :o ;D 8)
I love it! Best laugh I've had in months. ;D
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I think it's quite often part of trying to recreate the relationship with mother than went wrong... in cases where smother-love was part of the problem, ie trying to recreate the past and then fix it.
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Mine said OW was a female version of him. I don't get why anyone would want to date a version of themselves. If a guy was exactly like me, we'd both go nuts. :P
Crazy
I KNOW!! And I was just thinking about this: he always said I was the brains behind our operation...and he's the brawn.
I can only deduce from this that there are NO BRAINS in their operation. :o ;D 8)
Had to laugh Patience . Hey , maybe we should all try that strategy, no brains needed , just live . Sounds like a plan 8) Actually that's exactly what l'd like to be living right now after all this.
Unfortunately l have to think and brain strain non stop to get myself out of the sh@t this has left me in. l hate it , l wish l could just walk away .
Anyway , about the same person thing. It does depend on how they're the same person, in what ways.
l know with me , w and l were exactly the same in many many ways and that worked with us beautifully when things were good . And it still does now. But we were also opposites.
But l really couldn't see yours enjoying the control freak nut for too long , well long term anyway. He will most likely implode down the track at some stage is my guess. When whatever it is right now , wares off.
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Mines also doing different stuff.
She wares big rings now , she couldn't ware rings before. She goes 4wd'ing, l've had 4wd's for yrs , she never wanted to go.
She cut her long hair , which l loved , now it's short and she gets it down every few wks. Lately though she seems to be growing it long again , even asked me what l thought the other night - whatever that means.
She's riding motor bikes again , there was no reason why she couldn't still have a bike before hell l wanted to get a new one myself.
She's smoking dope again , always told me she couldn't smoke anymore it was knocking her about too much , but apparently not now .
Actually she drinks again too. She use to be a party animal but hasn't been able to have a drink in years because of 4 day hang overs she started getting.
Wonder what happened to those !
There are lots of things right across , she's basically a different person.
Just lately though , like the hair , she seems to be swaying back to the one l knew more and more . Whether that's another faze or what , no idea.
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Anyway , about the same person thing. It does depend on how they're the same person, in what ways.
l know with me , w and l were exactly the same in many many ways and that worked with us beautifully when things were good . And it still does now. But we were also opposites.
We were the same in many ways too, but we were also opposites.
When he told me that, he said she likes all the same music, movies, video games, not afraid to yell and be crazy, wants to do whatever she wants & not care what anyone thinks....and she even likes tequila. I never understood that one because I will drink it in a mixed drink. I guess it's more impressive to him that she drinks it straight up...and LOTS of it. He also described her as more of a drinking buddy right after BD, so I guess that also made her seem like she was the same.
One of them has to wake up first & I wonder who will be more freaked out by what they find. Her oldest is 17 so I'd guess she and her husband were maybe married 18 yrs when she ditched him. Maybe a MLC is another way they are the same...who knows?
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Since we've hit 16 pages here, I've taken the liberty of starting a second thread; second chapter.
Carry on. The new thread is here-- http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=6397.0
Hugs,
HT