Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Absolutely Fabulous on January 14, 2018, 06:51:45 AM
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I've been off the forum for a while, but I've noticed something on other sites: it's the LBSer not the MLCer that decides if the MLCer can come back.
If and/or when the MLCer finally emerges from the tunnel is not the determinant, it's the LBSers decision, not the MLCers.
I wondered why so few reconciliation stories. People have left the forum. I suspect not because they gave up, but because they've moved on. They grew from the experience, and decided they didn't want to have to deal with a broken person. This could be because of the progress they've made, or simply because too much time has past.
In reading other sites, this seems to be the case for many LBSers. Not wanting to have to stop their momentum with what they have accomplished within their own growth. Possibly, because they have found someone new. Or have decided that their lives have gone in a different direction, and aren't willing to wait for the MLCer to join them.
Should be a interesting discussion.
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I think I have grown and have come a long way from where I was at 1 year ago. I definitely accepted that this was not my fault and that it needs to be H who works through this himself.
I see pieces of old H here and there. I think that's why I haven't been the one to file the d. But shall he actually go through with filing, I will not fight him on it. I am at peace with me having a job after not having had one for over a decade and have become proud of myself. That's one thing this journey can't take away from me.
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Hello Fabulous, this is the best piece of news I've read in a very long time. It gives LBS some of the power taken away by the MLCER. Fourteen months post BD I still feel that I have not come to grips with the situation completely. I miss H even though he is nothing like the man I knew for twenty years. These days everyone says that he behaves like his teenage self.
Yes I watch from a distance as our children tell him that now that he left they will not be playing happy sundays with him and his family. Our kids always clearly state that since he left he has no say in their life and that he has given up the right to discipline them.
I clearly believe that MLCERS live in Lala land where they destroy people and they expect to continue to feel loved and respected. Well, it doesn't work that way.
Although I can forgive the mental abusive and infidelity I don't know how the children would feel about having H back. Since he filed for separation their relationship with him has crashed and burnt.
I don't want to sound smug but they have been loyal towards me. I suppose they know which parent carried them through the storm.
MLC sucks but it does make LBS stronger and I am living for the day when I no longer feel the emptiness of his loss.
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I haven't left the forum but I have mostly stopped posting. I know this is a question people keep asking, why do people stop posting? What happened?
Well, for me it is simply because my H has gone off script. He's definitely still in MLC, but I don't really find the stories on here to be very relevant anymore. People say that they tend to start off on script and then each MLCer takes their own path and I think that is true. It's useful to be here when the script is being followed but not so much when the path is different.
Also, I've made a conscious decision to as much as is possible, act as if he is NOT in MLC, but quickly going back into MLC mode when I sense his mood is getting more MLC-like again. It's been a good strategy for me but it is one I chose from my own mind and not because it is was advised to act that way here. So really reading all the "detach, work on yourself, live like they are not coming back (which always was bull$h!te advice in my opinion and still is very much so), blah blah blah" just is not helpful anymore.
With regards to your original suggestion, my H never left. NEVER throughout his entire MLC have I worried I was going to lose him. He will not leave me if I still want him. I know this. I've never gotten threats from him to end it, but when he senses I am unhappy he tells me I can end it if I want. I can't say all MLCers are like this but I think especially the stay at homers never have any intention to leave us, but they do feel guilt about how they treat us and therefore sometimes think we would be happier without them.
For me it has never been an issue of us staying together or ending it, it's been a question of what is our marriage going to look like 1-2-3 years down the road? If it looks like it does now, forget it, I will leave, but I trust the process and will give him the chance to get his act together. If he doesn't then I will make the choice to LEAVE him (not let him come back, because that's not what it is about).
Anyway, I will go back into my lurking mode now but this is an interesting subject you have opened up.
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I can only speak to my own experience, 6.5 years post BD, but I've found everything you said to be true. I was not a "Covenant Keeper" per se but I did plan to stand until he came home, however long that took (my guesstimate at that point was 2 years tops - he was gonna be a quick one! ;)). He was a clinging boomerang early on so there were plenty of breadcrumbs to keep me going.
When he vanished I idealized him and "felt" he was moving through the process and growing and was "going away to come back" (can't remember if it was RCR or HB that coined that one). Once we did have contact it was clear none of that was happening, and having him front and center as he was in the present, not who he was in the past, showed me that I just didn't feel the same, and couldn't see any motivation for saving this marriage anymore. His marriage to OW was not the catalyst, but it did eventually help get me over the hurdle. Perfect punishment for he and OW is that they're stuck with each other. My bankruptcy from all of this and how "stuck" I felt were also aids. I prayed for peace a lot by that point, no matter what that meant.
It happened for me gradually I think, but also very suddenly once it was really done. I can remember waking up one day about a year ago and feeling like it really was the first day of the rest of my life, and he was no longer my first thought.
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I've been off the forum for a while, but I've noticed something on other sites: it's the LBSer not the MLCer that decides if the MLCer can come back.
If and/or when the MLCer finally emerges from the tunnel is not the determinant, it's the LBSers decision, not the MLCers.
It is interesting to me that you noticed this on other sites - this has been a common theme on this forum for as long as I can remember and I have been on-and-off the forum for 5 years now. I learned this fact on this forum many years ago.
Is this something that is not talked about here any more?
I lurk way more than I post now a days. I follow a few old timer threads but don't get too involved in the new stories as I am at a much different point now - not sure how much help I would be to a newer LBS.
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I'm not so sure about this. Seems to me that both players get to make choices...the MLC spouse at some point chooses to reconnect or not. Many do, but not all. Meanwhile the LBS might have given up on them and closed the door, that's true. And the LBS gets to choose how/if they respond to a post-tunnel reconnecting spouse pop up. Some may welcome that; others not. But I think both choose in different ways at different times and for different reasons maybe.
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I'm not so sure about this. Seems to me that both players get to make choices...the MLC spouse at some point chooses to reconnect or not. Many do, but not all. Meanwhile the LBS might have given up on them and closed the door, that's true. And the LBS gets to choose how/if they respond to a post-tunnel reconnecting spouse pop up. Some may welcome that; others not. But I think both choose in different ways at different times and for different reasons maybe.
In the end, the LBSer really is the deciding factor. Remember, MLCers have to “come back”. So in the end the LBSer is ultimately the one to make the decision. Leaving the tunnel happens, but it doesn’t guarantee the LBSer wanting to reconcile.
Searching, I’m not comparing sites, just pointed out they don’t all have “standers” like HS. A different point of view, one that doesn’t involve “standing” never hurts. The discussion is really more to see how people feel about who really makes the final decision on reconciliation or moving on without them.
Having said this, it’s empowering taking the focus off the MLCer and onto what the LBSer may or may not want for themselves. Standing or not, the bottom line is what the LBSer wants after this experience. Pick up the pieces or move on without looking back? It’s just something to think about.
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AbFab-I agree with Treasur. Both parties are making a decision. And one party can make a decision the other doesn't agree with.
I have to admit I find it hard to understand why R2T agrees with you actually. She may have eventually given up STANDING, I don't see how she had any choice as to whether she would get her husband back or not until now. If he hasn't made any moves to return, then how is that making a choice? Giving up standing when the MLCer has moved on and doesn't show any inclination to come back is just accepting the reality of the situation in my opinion.
To be honest, I think this "the LBS is the one who makes the choice" is just one of these mantras is supposed to make us feel good and empowered. It would only be true if all MLCers were trying to make a comeback, but not all do.
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I'm not so sure about this. Seems to me that both players get to make choices...the MLC spouse at some point chooses to reconnect or not. Many do, but not all. Meanwhile the LBS might have given up on them and closed the door, that's true. And the LBS gets to choose how/if they respond to a post-tunnel reconnecting spouse pop up. Some may welcome that; others not. But I think both choose in different ways at different times and for different reasons maybe.
In the end, the LBSer really is the deciding factor. Remember, MLCers have to “come back”. So in the end the LBSer is ultimately the one to make the decision. Leaving the tunnel happens, but it doesn’t guarantee the LBSer wanting to reconcile.
Searching, I’m not comparing sites, just pointed out they don’t all have “standers” like HS. A different point of view, one that doesn’t involve “standing” never hurts. The discussion is really more to see how people feel about who really makes the final decision on reconciliation or moving on without them.
Having said this, it’s empowering taking the focus off the MLCer and onto what the LBSer may or may not want for themselves. Standing or not, the bottom line is what the LBSer wants after this experience. Pick up the pieces or move on without looking back? It’s just something to think about.
this is an interesting discission... I may be confued on this so please correct me if im wrong.. but i have not read where the MLCer "HAS TO COME BACK".. i have read they go through the tunnel, some can get stuck in the tunnel.. some can coem out and be so changed that they choose to stay with OW... so am i missing something?
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No you aren’t missing anything. By “comeback”, I’m referring to returning to the spouse.
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I have nothing to add but am enjoying reading your stories.
I'm only 8 weeks from my BD and so I've been wondering out of those reconciliation stories how many there would be where the MLCer wanted to come home but the LBS didn't want that anymore. Interesting reading.
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AbFab-I agree with Treasur. Both parties are making a decision. And one party can make a decision the other doesn't agree with.
I have to admit I find it hard to understand why R2T agrees with you actually. She may have eventually given up STANDING, I don't see how she had any choice as to whether she would get her husband back or not until now. If he hasn't made any moves to return, then how is that making a choice? Giving up standing when the MLCer has moved on and doesn't show any inclination to come back is just accepting the reality of the situation in my opinion.
To be honest, I think this "the LBS is the one who makes the choice" is just one of these mantras is supposed to make us feel good and empowered. It would only be true if all MLCers were trying to make a comeback, but not all do.
I agree with your thoughts on this...My H is not showing any signs of coming back at this point.. I have hired a life coach to help me keep my focus on myself and try and have as normal a life as possible in this .. I do not want a divorce.. I am willing to do the work to save our marriage.. but if H has no interest there is really nothing I can do about it...
Since my H is 2.5 years into this mess with OW and is currently living with her , all i can do is work on me .. and for now hope he wakes up and decides to move toward me at some point this year ..
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I joined HS some 2.5 years after my BD. I've been on the DB forum for a month shy of that time, dealing with my W's MLC (hey, I'm guessing a boob job, tummy tuck, 4X4 car and dating sites qualifies as one!). I joined here, because it had a slightly different angle to DB.
At the moment, I'm effectively NC (except for kids) but wondering if this is the right tool to use? I want to stand (I'm still madly in love with her) but, I see no movement from her at all. I suppose, as the LBS, we do have power, to the extent we decide when it's time to give up and find something else.
If my MLC'er wanted back, I'm willing, but don't know how to communicate that in an effective manner.
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I have to admit I find it hard to understand why R2T agrees with you actually. She may have eventually given up STANDING, I don't see how she had any choice as to whether she would get her husband back or not until now. If he hasn't made any moves to return, then how is that making a choice? Giving up standing when the MLCer has moved on and doesn't show any inclination to come back is just accepting the reality of the situation in my opinion.
You are welcome to your opinion, and I reckon only others who have been in the same situation as I am (which I don't think we share) can relate. There's a difference.
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I have to admit I find it hard to understand why R2T agrees with you actually. She may have eventually given up STANDING, I don't see how she had any choice as to whether she would get her husband back or not until now. If he hasn't made any moves to return, then how is that making a choice? Giving up standing when the MLCer has moved on and doesn't show any inclination to come back is just accepting the reality of the situation in my opinion.
You are welcome to your opinion, and I reckon only others who have been in the same situation as I am (which I don't think we share) can relate. There's a difference.
R2R I've noticed that many of these ladies have had recent BD's, and we've been dealing with this for quite a few more years. My first one was in 2008 and I think that since many of them are new to this, they're looking at this with fresh pain. I've been on the forum for about 4 years now, and I've noticed that things are different when you are new to the forum. Even with multiple posts, we're in a different place than they are.
The discussion is open to all, but please keep in mind many of us on the forum had much earlier BD's and this isn't new or fresh for us.
Standers this isn't a thread to continue what your spouse has done to you, and is still doing. I personally am not focused on my XH at all. I'm not standing, and I'm also not going to get involved in bringing the same discussions that are on other posts onto this thread. Please consider that there are multiple posts to talk about your current situation. This post is really about being empowered.
Goner, your situation is one that involves a different kind of abuse, and it's clear that you're still angry. Rightfully so, but this thread is to keep things positive. Your comment was uncalled for, and it is clear that you have a long way to go on your journey before you can understand where we are coming from.
For those of you still reeling from recent BD's less than 3 years, please understand that we are not in the same place that you are. I'm much farther along on my journey so are R2R and Searching, please keep this in mind while you are posting here.
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To be honest, I think this "the LBS is the one who makes the choice" is just one of these mantras is supposed to make us feel good and empowered. It would only be true if all MLCers were trying to make a comeback, but not all do.
You are definitely not where I am at this point. I feel empowered because I am further along. You're not in a good place right now, and this post is angry. Been there, but it will pass. If your BD has been less than 5 years, then you still have a long way to go when it comes to your personal journey.
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I feel the need to clarify. This thread is about reconciliations, and the choices that the LBSer will have to make. For those who will be faced with the choice of whether or not they want to begin anew or again. I'm going to stay focused on this for the sake of keeping the thread on topic.
If that is not even remotely where you are, then you are missing the point of the thread. This is about people who are starting to see changes that look like the MLCer is either trying to reconnect (mine has 2x's in the past year), or those who have had premature returns. In other words, re-connections. Reconciliations for those standing aren't even a remote possibility unless they are trying to reconnect. If this is not you, you won't get the point of the thread. Sorry, but you're just not there yet.
IF this isn't your story... It's clear that a few of you haven't been dealing with this for very long, and your posts are ones that those of us who have been dealing with this for several years have all heard before. Multiple times. And it's clear that your spouses aren't trying to reconnect, but are "monstering". They are in the tunnel and you have zero influence on them at this point. This is not a thread to keep that conversation going, there are plenty of other ones for that.
R2R and I aren't standing. She has made some important points about where she is now in her stage of growth. Kudos to you R2R! I would like to keep this thread about the main topic: those that have MLCers that have shown signs of emerging from the tunnel, and the decisions that will have to be made by the LBSer.
IF you are still talking about not having a "choice" in the return, then you need to do more mirror work. That is keeping the focus on the MLCer, and not the purpose of this discussion. That is not to say that you can't learn from us. But, there are many of us who are past needing to be heard on multiple posts, and continuing discussions that are merely a bleed over from one thread to another. Enough already. Let's stay on topic for once.
Why Stand, thanks for joining us. Would love to see more men give their take on the thread. Looking for Ursa to give me his take.
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Fabs,
Is it possible that the reason those stories are not seen is because
*When they try and post things out for outside advice, they are shredded by other posters
*There is not a great deal of support for those reconnecting and starting to reconcile
You are so right in your stance that it is the LBS who gets to choose how the relationship proceed. They are shoes that unless one has walked, it cannot be understood.
However, since some are MLT and not full blown MLC and some are infidelity, it seems fair to me that there will be some cases of a joint decision and some of just theMLCer. But the majority do appear to be the LBS.
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Fabs,
Is it possible that the reason those stories are not seen is because
*When they try and post things out for outside advice, they are shredded by other posters
*There is not a great deal of support for those reconnecting and starting to reconcile
You are so right in your stance that it is the LBS who gets to choose how the relationship proceed. They are shoes that unless one has walked, it cannot be understood.
However, since some are MLT and not full blown MLC and some are infidelity, it seems fair to me that there will be some cases of a joint decision and some of just theMLCer. But the majority do appear to be the LBS.
Yes, yes, and yes!
The joint decision is something that comes later. Think about it: they have to really make it clear that they've (MLCer) changed, also have to be the one to show that they are willing to take the first step. And, it's up to them to face the consequences of their decisions, especially while trying to reconnect. In other words, the initial decision is still the LBSers as to whether or not they will give them another chance. My point entirely.
Thanks for helping to make the distinction.
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When I was 10 years old, I went to a local day summer camp. There was a girl who was a year older than me at the camp and i really liked her and looked up to her. The last night of the camp was a sleepover in a local park. I wanted to sleep in the same tent as that girl, but she told me, "No, this tent is only for the big kids." A real slap in the face. But looking back, hey, she was still 11 years old, hardly mature herself. She can be forgiven, someone older, not so much.
You remind me of that 11 year old. Maybe you should edit your original post and indicate how long we have to have been dealing with our spouse's MLC to participate. Maybe you should edit it to indicate that this post is only for non-standers who have already made their choice not to accept their spouse back. Maybe you should indicate that those of us who "still" have "monster" husbands shouldn't participate (although from reading some of your posts it sounds like your H's monster was still going strong after 9 years whereas mine has been almost entirely burned out since 18 months post-BD ??? ) God forbid you should have anyone who hasn't made their mind up yet, or worse yet, who is choosing to stand for their spouse and their marriage to participate in a discussion about the LBS's choice. Maybe you should just indicate this is one of those threads that is exclusively for the "He can have the ugly wh*r^. I don't want him. Hope the karma bus hits both of them. I am so 'happy' with my new boyfriend that I am still hanging out in a forum for standers after all these years" crowd. And you actually wonder why you don't hear many reconciliation stories. Maybe it's because on threads like this, you are insisting you don't want to actually HEAR those stores.
My husband is a good man, who I am sure has no desire to hurt me, who has made some rash decisions that WE will have to deal with forever. However, he has never wavered on being willing to STAND by me forever as my husband, even if he is not acting like himself now due to a state of emotional numbness. He asked me recently, why do you stay with me? I told him one thing-because every marriage has its good times and its bad times, maybe this is our bad time, but it doesn't mean I dump and abandon you. And you don't know all our circumstances but I can tell you my husband is CHOOSING to stand with me as well through circumstances that weren't of his liking either. We support one another as best as we can right now. That's what is important.
I accept that maybe I don't get you, because I don't have a husband who has "left" in the traditional sense like you have. I have a man who hasn't "left" me but probably could be better described has having "left" himself.
I make my choice to stay with my H every day. I see transformation and change and improvements happening rapidly. Reconnection/touch and go/reconciliation, all these are just a continuum. I don't worry where he is at the moment, what's important is the forward movement, and I see it all the time, Thank God. If that ever stops and stalls at a point that is unacceptable, then I will make a different choice.
Oh, and I don't know what the "special type" of abuse you think I am suffering from but you have no right to call my husband an abuser. Yes we are going through difficult times but I will stand up to a total stranger who doesn't know him ABUSING the man who has stood by me all these years. Keep to your big kid tent and stay out of mine.
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I am going to say (even though I know this is a discussion intended for those who are further along etc.) that I kind of agree with Goner about what appears to be a truism on this site, and that is, "In the end, it's the LBS who decides."
Unfortunately, even if there are a million qualifiers to this, a person who is newly traumatized and shocked into submission is extremely vulnerable to a promise like this. I know I was one of those people!
I think that unless we know what we are dealing with, we can't say this with certainty, and even then it is hard to make this statement. It is true that many MLC seems to follow a pattern. But, what if this is cyclothemia, bipolar, (avert your eyes) bvFTD, personality disorder, etc.? What if this is just an exit affair or the end to an abusive relationship? In this case, I think that this truism can be very dangerous. It can confuse a person for whom even a month of this feels like an eternity in hell. It can lead someone to make very bad decisions.
I'm not sure what the answer is. As humans, we cling to hope. In a state of trauma, it is easy to slip into fantasy thinking, and that includes revenge fantasies (MLCer is miserable and ultimately we will have our turn to reject them back) as well as happy ending fantasies (MLCer will transform into the person we always knew he/she could become, and they will win us back in new and improved form).
MLCer has to be the strangest wormhole of them all. I feel at times it is almost a hole in the Matrix. So I get that there is a peculiar logic and pattern to it that defies understanding, like a bizarre natural phenomenon, an energetic geyser if you will. So in many ways, I get what you are saying AB, when you make this qualification to your original post. I guess I feel as Goner does, however, a bit skeptical that this is really worth repeating so often on this site.
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I would like to keep this thread about the main topic: those that have MLCers that have shown signs of emerging from the tunnel, and the decisions that will have to be made by the LBSer.
Thank you for clarifying, AF...I had misunderstood seeing it more broadly. Maybe adapt the thread title a bit?
When you look through the archives, tbh, I think there are more stories of reconnection than we think. They seem to stay white because LBS are unsure and then seem to go in one of two ways...turn out to be a premature return and LBS keep posting, or turn into a more demanding reconnection process and many LBS stop posting or not so often.
I still think, like V said, it is a phrase which can be misunderstood and understandably makes newbies feel better when you feel that life has suddenly removed choices from you. I still think that both have choice...but perhaps the 'flavour' of how we see real reconnection attempts is a bit more like a dance when the MLC spouse 'asks' the LBS...the LBS gets to choose if their dance card is full with better offers, I guess!
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Hi everyone,
None of the following is about this thread but just in general.
I rarely post anymore on the site but do read from time to time. One of my reasons for not posting is that I am tired of the online bullying and aggression. There was a time when this was a great place to come, but I see cliques and high school behaviour and bullying and meanness...on a regular basis. I have posted before and others have talked around me making sure I get the message I'm not invited to the party. There are certain members I avoid and refuse to take part in any thread where they are involved as I know they like to remind all that they know the most and therefore can decide who will be welcomed into the conversation or not. This makes me sick to the core.
Believe me when I say I don't care one bit as I don't look to them for my validation, however, I feel for the new person recently experiencing BD and who is looking for support. The behaviour of some is disgraceful when always looking for a fight. Just stop. Healthy debate is okay and interesting, but aggression is not.
BD for us was 5 1/2 years ago. I used to read how it would ultimately be the choice of the LBS if the MLCer returns, and I could not understand how that could be, especially when it was H who created this mess and how our lives were turned upside down due to his "decision making". Surely, he was the only one who held all the cards and therefore only he would decide how this would end.
Not anymore. I am the LBS in our situation and yes I will be the one who decides whether or not he comes back to this family. I understand he has to make the move to come home first, but there's no point as he is no longer welcome.
I think back to BD and how I thought we needed him in order to make our family complete. He threw us into turmoil and we had no choice but to survive it, making us realize that we have done just fine and in fact now wouldn't change it or go back to what we had with him. I used to think all we needed to do was get him home, but now the thought of him ever showing up makes me nauseous. I never want to see him again.
Yes he created all of this and got to leave and carry on his new life with OW far away where he can never be questioned and he can live his life of lies. We live in truth and honesty, whether it hurts or not, and with that there is no option to have him back. I don't want to spend the rest of my life making him feel better about what he did. It is over.
There is indeed truth in that yes, I believe, the LBS does have the final say. Then again, that's just my two pence. ;)
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I agree with you Snowdrop about posts that seem a bit aggressive or judging or competitive about differences in a situation. I know I've had days when I've chosen not to post on a thread because my emotions about my situation that day might get in the way. There are 'seasons' for some kind of advice or questions maybe depending on where we are in LBS stages...I'm sure if I'd found this site a year earlier it would have really helped me progress a bit quicker through the early stages.
Sometimes as LBS we do need a loving challenge if we're flailing around or stuck. But what all of us need most, especially as newbies, is the understanding kindness that we often can't find in RL. The validation that we are not insane, and the cheerleading as we start to pick ourselves up or make hard choices to protect ourselves and our kids.
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Roll and scroll for what doesn't apply to me or with posters who might come across as boorish. Only we can decide for ourselves what works for us or doesn't. Someone elses version of reality is not necessarily mine. Another great lesson I've learned.
As to the LBS gets to decide, they have always gotten to decide, IMO. Whether the MLCER comes back, or not. True, as a newbie we can't see it, we think our lives have been destroyed forever, but the destruction is only temporary. We all rise like a phoenix from the ashes, some take longer than others, but it happens IF WE CHOOSE.
We can only choose how we, as an LBS or as a human being, are going to deal with any situation. So, yes. The LBS gets to choose, at any point, whether they want to stand, not stand, or stand until. We don't get to choose if our MLCER stays or goes, if they monster or not, if they steal the lawnmower or leave the surfboards. But we don't get to choose when people we love will die, if we get cancer, or whether our house gets destroyed in the next major fire or mudslide, either. Why should we think dealing with MLC should be any different?
I know that isn't quite what you were referring to, Absolutely Fab, but IMO, it's 100 % true. The LBS ALWAYS gets to choose, even from day one. We just can't see it for the grief. And if the MLCER wants to reconnect or reconcile, we still get to choose.
For me, mine would have to be on his knees with remorse or have proof that he really does have a neurological condition that caused this. I have no need for an entitled, broken man to come back and make my life miserable. I have no desire to have a man who flaunts an OW at me (though mine never has, still see no hide nor hair of one), I have no desire to keep doing all the heavy lifting in a one sided relationship. I deserve better than to be disrepected, manipulated, abandoned, and thrown away like a piece of trash. Everyone else's mileage will vary, as we each have our boundaries that we will not allow to be crossed, and everyone's is different.
Two years ago, my answer would likely have been different.
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The choices are even with the lbs from the start. It just takes time, wonderful, precious, loving, hard spent, hard worked, hard fought, thoughtful soul searching time to see.
IMHO, it would take someone who has a core and soul of stone to see those choices at the beginning. That should be something that every lbs is grateful for.
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I truely believe that most, maybe as much as 80% MLCers evtl. wake up and try to reconnect/come home. The Problem is that it happens too late for most LBS and they have moved on by that time in one way or another.
At first the LBS wants nothing more than the MLC to reconnect but as time moves on (certainly in my case) the LBS starts to see whats happened for what it is. It may be a sickness/Depression but all the choices, the betrayal and lies were concious decisions and hurt in the worst way possible.
I have made the decision to live as though my W will never return and she probably wont (I am Aware that most totally hate the LBS and Show absolutely no signs that they would ever be interested again one year after BD). I have met somebody who worships me and we are a good fit which obviously makes it easier. Probably in the same way that OM made it easier for W to leave and destroy everything which we had built together.
If my W does happen to try and reconnect at a later stage then I will concider my Actions on that day and no sooner. I have filed for D and I cannot accept this creature as my W any longer and I believe that a D at this stage really is irrelevant to what may happen in years to come.
Just my opinion, sorry if a Little OT but the flow of this thread is getting confusing.
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Im not sure who decides . But when i get to the point of quitting my stand , i cant help but think of my children. Marriage is not about 2 people. Its about family. My youngest will be graduating hs this year. I cant help but think of the future for my kids. Splitting holidays , no family sunday dinners all together maybe with grandchilren. My h and i had that. Family things together just for a pizza night and such even with extended family. Thats what keeps me standing. I woke up today thinking. H has a mental illness. Do you leave people who are visible sick? I have bared all with my h in his crisis. All monstering and affair and such. Would it be worth getting past all that to have a family baclk together? I think so. He is not in his right mind clearly. So i guess my point is , would i make the decision to try puuting it back together. Probably . But right now. ,i particularly do not have that choice. After 3/12 years . So at this point i feel. , the mlcer has the choice.
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I've been off the forum for a while, but I've noticed something on other sites: it's the LBSer not the MLCer that decides if the MLCer can come back.
If and/or when the MLCer finally emerges from the tunnel is not the determinant, it's the LBSers decision, not the MLCers.
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There is nothing more 100% true than this statement and I have often reminded LBS of this fact. It is 100% fact...the LBS holds the cards ( so to speak) and has total control over whether or not the MLC spouse is permitted home. I remember my monster-man sauntering across my deck and saying "If I decide to come home...I will let you know" . WHATS THAT?? Well there was about 3 second of peace and the biggest fact was delivered.. " Just so YOU know H, the decision about whether or not you will ever be back it this house, whether you will ever be back in this marriage or whether you are ever the head of this family ...is firetrucking mine! Your say in this is ZERO. Less than ZERO. ! So saunter your adolescent self off MY firetruckin deck!".
they expect to continue to feel loved and respected. Well, it doesn't work that way.
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I have experienced this . He believed he had "every right to finally be happy" and his actions would ensure this elusive happiness. He was insanely blind to what else his "actions" might ensure. Compartmentalization? It was painfull to watch actually but of course the natural progression of things. He was no longer loved (the same way) and he was in some ways "feared" because no one knew him. He once got very angry with my second oldest daughter . He started to say"listen young lady, you are not my judge and jury and...blah blah . She hung up on him. NEVER would she have been able to do that with her "real" dad. Utter loss of respect , and well earned I must say. Oblivious to consequences and shocked when they appeared.
So really reading all the "detach, work on yourself, live like they are not coming back (which always was bull$h!te advice in my opinion and still is very much so), blah blah blah" just is not helpful anymore.
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Wow!
[quotethis has been a common theme on this forum for as long as I can remember and I have been on-and-off the forum for 5 years now. I learned this fact on this forum many years ago. ][/quote].
Yes! I have myself discussed this many times on HS and have seen it pointed on many times. It is (I thought) a well know fact.
To be honest, I think this "the LBS is the one who makes the choice" is just one of these mantras is supposed to make us feel good and empowered.
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Ahhhh, so perhaps a statement to "blow some pretty smoke up our ass?". I could not disagree more and rather offensive. It is "assumed" that the MLC spouse wants to return, otherwise the question does not apply. The LBS has the ultimate say IF the MLC spouse wants to return to the marriage.
Having said this, it’s empowering taking the focus off the MLCer and onto what the LBSer may or may not want for themselves. Standing or not, the bottom line is what the LBSer wants after this experience. Pick up the pieces or move on without looking back?
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Yes!
this is an interesting discission... I may be confued on this so please correct me if im wrong.. but i have not read where the MLCer "HAS TO COME BACK".. i have read they go through the tunnel, some can get stuck in the tunnel.. some can coem out and be so changed that they choose to stay with OW... so am i missing something?
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Some never come out of it and never ever want to return to the marriage. A permanent "stuck" I guess. I assumed the question applied to a situation where the MLC spouse has made a decision to return. That is his last decision. After that , the LBS now has some (all) the power and control in their lives. THEY decide the fate of the marriage, whether to reconcile or not etc etc .
This post is really about being empowered.
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Yes. That I how I interpreted this discussion.
Is it possible that the reason those stories are not seen is because
*When they try and post things out for outside advice, they are shredded by other posters
*There is not a great deal of support for those reconnecting and starting to reconcile
You are so right in your stance that it is the LBS who gets to choose how the relationship proceed. They are shoes that unless one has walked, it cannot be understood.
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Yes Yes and Yes... all very well said. And understood ... because I have had those shoes !
One of my reasons for not posting is that I am tired of the online bullying and aggression. There was a time when this was a great place to come, but
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This is sadly true. Some need to purchase a filter and simply seem to want to attack and fight. That starts to show up repeatedly in certain posters ..and it is difficult to continue dealing with them. But not posting because of them is an opportunity lost for yourself ..and that is unacceptable. Some people are sent as a challenge to you as a sign of something more you need to learn ...I try to keep that perspective. I have learned to ignore some people and seek out others ...to get what I need.
but the flow of this thread is getting confusing.
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Goner, this is my answer to your post: you are not ready for this thread. Period. You are welcome to post. But again, you are highjacking the thread that you are neither at the point of, nor are you being objective. You’re just not ready for this kind of thread. And the newbies posting are in the same stage.
Newbies have a habit of posting on threads that they should be reading instead of offering input. Your projected anger and deflection is noted. I will not be addressing you at any other time on this thread. If you don’t like that? Stay off the thread. And keep your juvenile camp stories on the playground. Find an adult one next time if you want me to take you seriously.
Newbies spend too much time trying to prove that they are further progressed than they are. And worse thinking that you understand where we are. Then getting offended and resenting we when start threads where we don’t want to rehash the past for us. There is no need, we’ve already been there. I shouldn’t have to defend a discussion for a different level and stage of development. Yes, it is a different level of development and growth. Either you are at the point where you can stick to the topic or not.
Newbies are still in tremendous pain. Those of us who have processed this are now at a point where we can discuss this without insulting others or taking things too personally. If you feel judged by my responses, talk to me in a few more years and see if you still feel the same way. Again, I have experienced this myself.
The need for attention from newbies stems from wanting to be understood. Again, been there. But you all are extremely disrespectful to the rest of us on our threads. This needed to be addressed. This thread is not about you. And I’m tired of newbies trying to make every thread about them. It’s gotten old. The rest of us would like to be able to get support as well, for where we are at this point. Are you (newbies) really so selfish and self absorbed that we have to treat you like the MLCers? With the truth bombs we’re hitting you with here?
MLC takes time whether you’re dim and dark or No contact. No one is spared. As for newbies needing support? You have other threads just for that purpose, this thread is not one of them, and I make no aplogies for it. I was once a newbie and I wanted validation as well, but I quickly discovered that not all threads were for me. And truthfull, I’m personally tired of the entitlement that I’m finding that many newbies have concerning threads that don’t fit their situations. Highjacking threads so that you can change the discussion is inexcusable.
Back to the discussion.
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Barbie doll, thanks for your input. I had read your posts for a while (mainly the ones in 2014-15). I just kept wanting to give you a hug, and punch your MLCer.
At any rate, you and a few others get the point of the thread. I’m not changing the title. The initial post said it all. I think of more people read people’s threads instead of just titles this wouldn’t happen. Emotions run high with the newbies, in Time they see what we’re talking about. Just like we did. And you were right about the filters. Too many cherry pickers if you ask me.
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Fair points all round, AF.
I'm a couple of years in and sometimes I really want to trust the judgement and experience of wiser, veteran heads than mine...now and then, it's a bit challenging or scary though.
I'm at that stage (and I see it in others too) of 'it is MLC not me/ow but it's not going to get better, he'll never progress so I need to take my bumps and move forward, I hate it but I'm grateful it didn't finish me off' point that seems to come in between 2-3 years for most folks. It's invaluable to be granted hard-earned perspective from further down this tough life road and to be reminded that I might be wrong as easily as right.
Reading others' stories shows me that it is worth hoping for my H's recovery even if I can't know what will happen for either of us. That most do eventually recover in some way from this crisis. That it's ok to feel sad years later and to want to throat-punch anyone who chimes in to say 'get over it' or 'everything happens for a reason'! I am truly grateful for every veteran that takes the time to share their experience irregardless of whether they are reconnecting, reconciling, standing or leaving it all behind them...or places in between :)
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AbFab-I've been a university professor and I make sure my students understand from day one there are no stupid questions except the ones that aren't asked and that it's perfectly acceptable to disagree with someone's opinion but not attack the person for holding that opinion. It's very clear you wouldn't know how to lead a reasonable, open and inclusive discussion if your life depended on it. NO ONE can learn anything useful when there's a dictatorial control freak leading the discussion.
This is a forum for standers looking to restore their marriages. With all due respect, if you no longer have that as your goal and don't want to interact with "newbies" who still have that as their goal and who may still achieve their goal by asking questions and sharing their opinions, which more "experienced" LBSs may or may not agree with which is perfectly fine, maybe you should find another forum to lead your discussion in. Like Chump Lady's site.
Because I don't see how anyone giving their opinions on this thread is acting like a newbie in search of support. Every single person on this thread gave a respectful and varied opinion on the topic and all those opinions deserve respect, except for your rants about how some people aren't welcome. Everyone of us was a newbie at one time, even you, and I am sure most old timers will remember what it was like to be newbie and may still take offense at what you have written.
And frankly, there is no scientific research to prove one way or the other that any of the advice, mantras, slogans etc. is factual or actually helps the LBS achieve their goals. We all have to take what works for us and let our intuition guide us for the rest. Get a PhD in MLC from a reputable university and then I will take you seriously as an expert. Until then, you are no better than anyone else on here, whether they joined yesterday or 8 years ago.
If you want me to stop expressing my opinion, go complain to a moderator. Because until a moderator tells me to shut up, I will post when and where I choose to do so. You said the LBS is the one to decide, didn't you? ;D
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Just a reminder, any member of HS can post on any thread that she or he desires to post on. Often, that might mean a difference of view point or opinion and that is fine. It is how we all learn.
Absolutely Fabulous, I find your response to "newbies" very hurtful, condescending and downright mean.
I don't understand why you are so angry at newbies for posting on this or any other thread they wish to post on. Your hostility towards those who are still in the early stages of this mess make me cringe.
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I wasn't going to comment on this "just because," but I had to chime in here. I am in agreement with what Goner has said and xyzcf.
Goner is not an angry person ... anything but. Sure, she gets mad at some stupid things that happen, but don't we all? She is just standing for her marriage like so many of us are.
I felt very bad when you talked about the "newbies." I was a "newbie" in December of 2016... but not really. My first BD was in 2008, following by another one in December of 2012. Had I not found this site and the many wonderful people on it, I don't know where I would be today.
In the end, aren't we all entitled to our opinions? I will admit, I have "drunk-posted," including the discussion thread I started on MLC vs. alcoholism ;D ;D ;D but I am a human and all I want is to be "me" to let it all out, not be judged and just feel better all around.
If we can't say what we want on here, where can we? Off-road said it best ... not in the same words but take what you want and leave the rest.
I am sorry for the newbies reading this because this really is a process ... not easy ... but things will turn out ok in the end.
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Let's all try to just be a little more gentle, respectful and kind all round with each other maybe? All of us are here trying to look for support/help or offer it and we will inevitably look through different windows.
A truce, folks?
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Just a reminder, any member of HS can post on any thread that she or he desires to post on. Often, that might mean a difference of view point or opinion and that is fine. It is how we all learn.
Absolutely Fabulous, I find your response to "newbies" very hurtful, condescending and downright mean.
I don't understand why you are so angry at newbies for posting on this or any other thread they wish to post on. Your hostility towards those who are still in the early stages of this mess make me cringe.
Pot stirring again? I said what I meant. As you have said, we can all post. You seem to thrive on drama. Let me remind you of my past Moniker: My3girls. Do you really want to do this with me again? Wonder what Law Professor would say about this thread. Wonder how’s she’s been?
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Amen, Treasur ... I second that.
I come here to "let it all out," for suggestions, guidance and to just be free. I will always accept 2 x 4s, which is how I learn. I just feel bad when the attacking starts, because we have enough of that in our real life, if you ask me ...
Truce!!
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AbFab-I've been a university professor and I make sure my students understand from day one there are no stupid questions except the ones that aren't asked and that it's perfectly acceptable to disagree with someone's opinion but not attack the person for holding that opinion. It's very clear you wouldn't know how to lead a reasonable, open and inclusive discussion if your life depended on it. NO ONE can learn anything useful when there's a dictatorial control freak leading the discussion.
This is a forum for standers looking to restore their marriages. With all due respect, if you no longer have that as your goal and don't want to interact with "newbies" who still have that as their goal and who may still achieve their goal by asking questions and sharing their opinions, which more "experienced" LBSs may or may not agree with which is perfectly fine, maybe you should find another forum to lead your discussion in. Like Chump Lady's site.
Because I don't see how anyone giving their opinions on this thread is acting like a newbie in search of support. Every single person on this thread gave a respectful and varied opinion on the topic and all those opinions deserve respect, except for your rants about how some people aren't welcome. Everyone of us was a newbie at one time, even you, and I am sure most old timers will remember what it was like to be newbie and may still take offense at what you have written.
And frankly, there is no scientific research to prove one way or the other that any of the advice, mantras, slogans etc. is factual or actually helps the LBS achieve their goals. We all have to take what works for us and let our intuition guide us for the rest. Get a PhD in MLC from a reputable university and then I will take you seriously as an expert. Until then, you are no better than anyone else on here, whether they joined yesterday or 8 years ago.
If you want me to stop expressing my opinion, go complain to a moderator. Because until a moderator tells me to shut up, I will post when and where I choose to do so. You said the LBS is the one to decide, didn't you? ;D
Your need for attention has already been noted. I’m continuing the discussion, so if you get offended by my lack of response to your posts? Deal with it. I’m not impressed by your credentials or attitude. You came to pick a fight, and I’m beyond that. Since it is clear you don’t like the topic of the thread, it’s your problem. I won’t be making it mine.
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Phoenix and Barbie, thanks for sticking with he discussion. Snowdrop you made some awesome points. Can you ladies go a little deeper? So that we can stay on topic.
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Treasur, I appreciate what you have posted. I just wanted to point out that newbies have raw emotions at this point. This discussion isn’t to offend. Having said this, there are just some topics that are too sensitive for you all right now. This is one on them.
This is also the reason why many of us who have been on the forum for several years, or who have different points of view start with something positive and stop posting. We need a break from the drama. And it’s all drama, whether people want to admit it or not. This was supposed to empower and help those of us who are st this point. But, as per usual we can’t have one thread where we can keep it positive or moving forward. The discussion had to go back and get stuck. All because someone is at one stage and wants to keep everyone at it.
I’m going to continue this discussion. If it’s personal? Keep in mind what my initial post stated. No wonder so many people from when I first joined the forum have left. Tired of the drama.
Barbie, Off-road, R2, and Snowdrop. Thanks for hanging in there. XYCZ you already know how I feel about you, no need to rehash here.
This is a good topic and I’m going to keep it positive like I had intended. But know this: I don’t suffer drama well. You have been warned.
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I get that, AF, IDK if it's too sensitive as such, maybe too far from where I am currently after recent 'surprises' in my story...?
I probably see myself less of a 'newbie' and more of a 'middlie' now ;D but am happy to learn from different POV.
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Absolutely Fabulous, I find your response to "newbies" very hurtful, condescending and downright mean.
I don't understand why you are so angry at newbies for posting on this or any other thread they wish to post on. Your hostility towards those who are still in the early stages of this mess make me cringe.
You have confused directness with anger. Since you can’t get into my head, you may want to leave the mind reading to the MLCers. Thanks for your input, it’s amusing as always.
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Your projected anger and deflection is noted. I will not be addressing you at any other time on this thread. If you don’t like that? Stay off the thread.
Well your not addressing me didn't last, did it? :D
Since according to you I am closer to the newbie stage, I do have to say as a "newbie" I think you have NO CLUE what a newbie wants or needs from this forum and that your judgments of newbies are downright rude and offensive. But then I only can speak for myself based on my own reasons coming to this forum. Maybe it is you who is projecting your own past attitudes as a newbie on here on everyone else. I don't know. I have not read your threads as a newbie, so I could be wrong.
Anyway, I've got a dinner date with my H tonight, so I guess I should go brush up on my "anger" a bit so I don't disappoint you. ;D
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AS I WAS READING , I THOUGHT YOU SOUNDED FAMILAIR. IM SORRY BUT YOUR TONE IS EXTREMLY VOLATILE AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN FULL OF HOSTILITY. YOU HAVE REMAINED BITTER. IF YOU WERENT YOU WOULD BE OK SEEING YOUR EX. NOT SAYING YOU DONT CARE EVER TO SEE HIM AGAIN. JUST MY OPINION. I BELEIVE YOU NEED SO MUCH WORK IN HUMILITY.
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I get that, AF, IDK if it's too sensitive as such, maybe too far from where I am currently after recent 'surprises' in my story...?
I probably see myself less of a 'newbie' and more of a 'middlie' now ;D but am happy to learn from different POV.
I agree with you there. I’ve read some of your threads. Thriving despite the chaos. The tone needs to change. Look at it from this angle: if you are seeing signs of “liminality” then you can understand more fully the point of the thread. As long as they’re in the tunnel, you can’t get to the core person. Denjef31 explained what she went through.
When you’re still grieving or have yet to grieve this is something you can comprehend. It just doesn’t make sense when you in the early or middle stages of the progression. LBSers can get stuck for long periods here as well. LBSers can stay stuck for as long as the MLCer if you’re not careful. That’s part of what I mean by the LBSer decides. Do you stay stuck in raw emotions, or move forward? We decide where things go while they’re in crisis. Not the other way around.
It’s all about the decisions we make while they’re completely out of control. If they return, and this is what newbies don’t get, we decide where to go from there. This is about, and has only been about: the ones that return. The whole point of the thread.
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AND WHAT ABOUT THE ONES WHO DONT RETURN? HOW IS THAT THE LBERS CHOICE?
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AS I WAS READING , I THOUGHT YOU SOUNDED FAMILAIR. IM SORRY BUT YOUR TONE IS EXTREMLY VOLATILE AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN FULL OF HOSTILITY. YOU HAVE REMAINED BITTER. IF YOU WERENT YOU WOULD BE OK SEEING YOUR EX. NOT SAYING YOU DONT CARE EVER TO SEE HIM AGAIN. JUST MY OPINION. I BELEIVE YOU NEED SO MUCH WORK IN HUMILITY.
I love this about this forum the ones that stay stuck judge those of us who have been able to move forward. Humility: you mean towing the line. Conforming is more like it. Sorry, but I’m extremely happy these days. New: life, job, my OD has reestablished our relationship, and my kids are happy. How are things with you? Still struck I see.
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DID YOUR H EVER TRY AND COME BACK?
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AND WHAT ABOUT THE ONES WHO DONT RETURN? HOW IS THAT THE LBERS CHOICE?
Did you not read the initial post? Those who return. I mean really, how difficult is this? If they don’t return, there is no discussion. The point becomes moot. The discussion is about those who return.
How did we get so off topic? Why do you need to distract from it? If they don’t come back, then there is nothing to discuss. This becomes a circlular argument, and similar to having one with the MLCer.
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How did this go from being a about the LBSer being the one to decide to an argument about newbies feelings and their issues? Can anyone explain how this went from a discussion to a cat fight?
Really? You all who aren’t seeing any movement are really so offended by a post about LBSers who do and will have to make the choice? Are you really that envious and jealous of the LBSers that will have to make the decisions that many of you won’t. And you all complain about not having support? Seriously?
1phoenix, you’re 100% right, the claws come out when you drop truth bombs. I’ll get back to this later, I have to get back to work.
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AND WHAT ABOUT THE ONES WHO DONT RETURN? HOW IS THAT THE LBERS CHOICE?
Did you not read the initial post? Those who return. I mean really, how difficult is this? ...
AF:
I just wanted to point out from a lurker's point of view, I too thought like Keep Believing did. I don't feel you were that clear on that point.
Your point that the LBS gets to decide in only those situations where the MLCer wants to come back is a fair, no brainer argument.
I think what some of those participating in the discussion are referring to are those situations where the MLCer either lacks the courage, or the desire to come back. That is a real possibility.
Sorry for the interruption, but I can see how the confusion came about.
-T
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agreed. but af h never tried to come back .
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I just have to laugh at the absurdity of this all. I, in no way, judge anyone except myself.
AbFab, my only comment to you is that if you have decided to not stand for your marriage, why are you still posting? I thought this was a forum for LBSes who are standing for their marriage while moving forward.
My take is if/when your XH ever wanted to come back, you wouldn't have him. So what good is this doing for us LBSes who are standing for our marriage? Please don't forget, I have been at this A LONG, LONG, LONG TIME ... yet, I am standing for my marriage. You can call me stupid, naive or anything else.
I do "hate" the cattiness of some of these discussions, which is why I probably decided not to keep up with my thread. It is very sad, though, that the one thing that brought all of us together is the one thing that is tearing us apart.
Maybe we all need to take a step back and think of why/what we are doing and how this is helping us move forward/backward in our progress???
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DID YOUR H EVER TRY AND COME BACK?
This is what happens when you don’t read all the way through. YES. And just let this last Oct. No, I’m not standing. My kids would kill me if I took him back. I’m not bitter, resentful or any of the sort.
I mistakenly thought that there could be a calm and rational discussion about this for those who were at this point. What was I thinking? Oh yes, that this could be a great discussion. Instead, it could rival any soap opera or reality show. It’s a shame that so many wear their feelings in their shoulders and don’t stop and think about topics that should be thought provoking. No wonder so many men leave the forum after a short time. Too many cat fights, drama and cliques.
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AND WHAT ABOUT THE ONES WHO DONT RETURN? HOW IS THAT THE LBERS CHOICE?
Did you not read the initial post? Those who return. I mean really, how difficult is this? ...
AF:
I just wanted to point out from a lurker's point of view, I too thought like Keep Believing did. I don't feel you were that clear on that point.
Your point that the LBS gets to decide in only those situations where the MLCer wants to come back is a fair, no brainer argument.
I think what some of those participating in the discussion are referring to are those situations where the MLCer either lacks the courage, or the desire to come back. That is a real possibility.
Sorry for the interruption, but I can see how the confusion came about.
-T
Hey TNT haven’t seen you for a while. I explained it in my initial post. Just goes to show how many people jump in without reading the initial post. Crazy how people defend each other and don’t even read the initial post.
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No offense, but I thought the title to this whole forum was: "Dealing with Midlife Crisis and Infidelity when YOU DON'T WANT A DIVORCE."
If I'm not mistaken, I forgot that you were "my3girls" when I started this. I know you were going to start your own business and I hope you have continued success with that.
I guess my only suggestion is that if you are "not standing for your marriage" any longer, maybe to start a new site for those of you that have had Mid-Lifers, you have gone through the sh$$ that we are going through now and have survived and thrived and are getting a new life not hoping to get your marriage back?
Just a thought ...
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Never, the point of the discussion comes down to this: we really don’t know what decision we will make until the time comes. And it really does need to be discussed. I made the decision based on the pain my kids have suffered. It’s one thing to do this to me, a while different story to do this to my kids.
It doesn’t really matter if someone is standing or not. The real question is: will you want them back after it’s all said and done? After the mirror work, the loses and gains, the new life, or new person who helps you pick up the pieces. In the end what will you choose if that day come? The LBSer not the MLCer. What will you decide?
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I guess my only answer is I did read your thread from the beginning. I also looked at your profile and it says you are divorced and done. I guess my thought was you wouldn't want your husband back at any cost.
I mean no offense. I really don't. We do need to discuss things and be open about it. Isn't that the whole point?
I guess my question is, would you ever want your husband back? If so, maybe your profile should change when it says: "Status ... Done." No offense meant. Seriously.
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No offense, but I thought the title to this whole forum was: "Dealing with Midlife Crisis and Infidelity when YOU DON'T WANT A DIVORCE."
If I'm not mistaken, I forgot that you were "my3girls" when I started this. I know you were going to start your own business and I hope you have continued success with that.
I guess my only suggestion is that if you are "not standing for your marriage" any longer, maybe to start a new site for those of you that have had Mid-Lifers, you have gone through the sh$$ that we are going through now and have survived and thrived and are getting a new life not hoping to get your marriage back?
Just a thought ...
The better question is why are personally on this thread? Are you here to attack and fight, or discuss what you would do in the event of a return? I forget what the logical term is for deflecting and diverting a conversation ( my logic is rusty), but that has sure been the case here on this thread.
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Whether an LBS is standing or not shouldn't impact their involvement on the forum. We all found this site because of the tsunami that hit our lives and we all, at one point, tried to avoid having this end our marriages. Not standing now doesn't change that I *did* stand for over five years (even after my xH remarried), formed lasting bonds with people here, and still have suggestions to offer when it comes to avoiding some of the pitfalls in dealing with a particularly nasty, bipolar midlifer who had prior been my best friend and love of my life.
RCR had the choice to create a forum like Divorce Busting or some of the others where there are moderators who keep discussion to specific topics and even ban others who stray from anything that doesn't support the "marketing message." She chose to allow people to explore more ideas here that might broaden the focus at times, like now, into uncomfortable territory, but ultimately make this a more "real" place where support is for everyone, and the relationships are meaningful.
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All I can say is WOW! No offense toward anybody. But I love this forum, and yes I thought is was for ones wanting too stand, and hoping too reconcile one day. But , hey all info is good I guess.
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My only comment will be, there are just certain people who always bring drama and cat fighting to their threads...always.
I choose to stay away from them. They bring no positives to this site.
Hero's Spouse Mission Statement:
"Love each other, Love your spouse, and Love yourselves. These Unconditional's apply to everyone.
Have a good day everyone.
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I stood for my marriage from 2008-2015. Stop denigrating those of us who have made a different choice. In case you didn’t notice this discussion is about possible returns. In case you didn’t know, they try to return to those of us who aren’t standing. In fact many stories I have read including some here on HS the MLCer returned when they met someone else. In fact some MLCers came out of the tunnel faster when the LBSer found someone new.
So this affects us on both sides.
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So you asked me why I'm personally on this thread? I came on because the title was "LBSer is the one that decides." I want to learn as much as I can, hope to give out the best advice I can and just take it one day at a time.
Maybe you didn't intend on this turning into an "attack" session. I know from past experience what can happen ;D ;D
I'll make it simple. What would you do in the event of a return ... and why??? And if you choose to say no, why? After all, we are here to help each other, right??
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Sorry, my post happened while the last two were posting.
Thunder, thank you!!! You made me once again "think straight."
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My only comment will be, there are just certain people who always bring drama and cat fighting to their threads...always.
I choose to stay away from them. They bring no positives to this site.
Hero's Spouse Mission Statement:
"Love each other, Love your spouse, and Love yourselves. These Unconditional's apply to everyone.
Have a good day everyone.
If you had read the initial comments? You can thank Searching and Goner for how this took a turn. As for drama? I noticed you couldn’t resist taking a dig. People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. Or would you prefer: Let he who is without sin cast the first stone?
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Sorry I cant participate, its been 9 years and no return in sight.
I do think that the LBS'er gets to choose in the end and likely that I brought that info from DB to here.
Please lets try to keep the discussion as civil as possible.
Thank you
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So you asked me why I'm personally on this thread? I came on because the title was "LBSer is the one that decides." I want to learn as much as I can, hope to give out the best advice I can and just take it one day at a time.
Maybe you didn't intend on this turning into an "attack" session. I know from past experience what can happen ;D ;D
I'll make it simple. What would you do in the event of a return ... and why??? And if you choose to say no, why? After all, we are here to help each other, right??
As I recall Searching took the first swipe and Goner the next. You all seem to have a problem with people defending themselves when they don’t agree with you. Start from the beginning. R2 made a great point. Searching and Goner took the low road. Start there and then you be the judge.
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I am glad you found my post “ amusing”. I am sorry that I cannot say the same about yours.
Your statement that MLCers come back when the LBSer meets someone else is false and without any proof at all. Standing is about much more than getting our spouses back.
Our spouses are in crisis. Nothing we do is going to cause them to return until their crisis is over.
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Someone in RL (who has always believed that my STBXH would reappear wanting to reconnect, if only as part of recovering his life/history/health) asked me what I would do post-watchgate...and I said I didn't know, that I'd just trust my ability to know at the time if it happened.
So then she asked...well, what would you need to see to take a first step, to open the door to maybe, if not a yes? It was a darned good question so I mused on it while playing in my new allotment.
Forgiveness is not an issue for me; nor is love. Not being an idiot about trust and not getting sucked into the Sandpit of Disorder probably is! From what I've heard, they don't return magically 'done' and (understandably) not overflowing with remorse, transparency and courage either. I would probably be less concerned about Whys than a year ago, but much more about Whats.
My first thoughts about what would matter to me:
- some level of reciprocity/balance...if my spouse was still all Me, Me, Me...nothing useful to work with
- if they can't/won't tell any of the truth or keep lying to obviously control things...ditto
- if I am trying to own stuff that’s not my responsibility or be ‘right’ or 'fix' him..then I'm not ready.
- if neither of us feels safe enough to make a small calm bit of ground...again, not the time
Would be interested in hearing what others think. What were the actions you saw that told you clearly that your MLCer wanted to reconnect and you had a choice to make? And what criteria did you use to make it?
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IN YOUR THREAD IT NEVER SOUNDED LIKE YOUR H WAS ASKING TO COME HOME. HE JUST HAPPENED TO BE AROUND. HONESTLY, I DONT THINK THERE IS ANYTHING TO BE DISCUSSED ON THIS THREAD. IF THE MLCER ASKS TO COME HOME ,DONT WE ALL KNOW THAT WOULD BE OUR DECISION ? !!!!!!
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I would just like to quote from my first response to this thread, in case anyone missed it:
this is an interesting subject you have opened up.
Someone asks a question, I respectfully answer and give my own opinion, I even pay them a compliment for opening the topic, and then...?
???
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Ok, folks, this isn't feeling comfortable for me - not sure what's going on, but I'm going to skip out and leave you to it ???
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As I recall Searching took the first swipe and Goner the next. You all seem to have a problem with people defending themselves when they don’t agree with you. Start from the beginning. R2 made a great point. Searching and Goner took the low road. Start there and then you be the judge.
No one NEEDS to defend THEMSELVES when someone disagrees with their opinion. The only thing they might want to defend is their opinion. That is taking the high road. Personally, I respect every opinion that has been expressed on this thread concerning the original topic, even if I don't agree with it.
I appreciate though that you have made your stance clear that you consider any disagreement with your opinion on the topic to be a low, personal attack. That makes your rant about newbies make a lot of sense. Because newbies aren't going to see things the way you do and therefore by your logic they are out to attack you.
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Let me remind you of my past Moniker: My3girls.
This is why I wish we had a way to see previous used names ::) Had I realized who was posting I would have stayed clear.
As I recall Searching took the first swipe and Goner the next. You all seem to have a problem with people defending themselves when they don’t agree with you. Start from the beginning. R2 made a great point. Searching and Goner took the low road. Start there and then you be the judge.
This actually seems to be your problem. I'm not sure why I am always called out in your threads.
I've been off the forum for a while, but I've noticed something on other sites: it's the LBSer not the MLCer that decides if the MLCer can come back.
If and/or when the MLCer finally emerges from the tunnel is not the determinant, it's the LBSers decision, not the MLCers.
It is interesting to me that you noticed this on other sites - this has been a common theme on this forum for as long as I can remember and I have been on-and-off the forum for 5 years now. I learned this fact on this forum many years ago.
Is this something that is not talked about here any more?
I lurk way more than I post now a days. I follow a few old timer threads but don't get too involved in the new stories as I am at a much different point now - not sure how much help I would be to a newer LBS.
How exactly is this taking the low road? I asked a simple clarifying question.
No need to respond to this. I have been on the other side of your unjustified attacks before - I know how it works.
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You know, I sometimes feel that we are all LBS's to AbFab's MLC.
We need to work on our detachment, so we don't get pulled into the drama.
She will be monster at us, be argumentative, accusatory... and threaten to leave us for another forum...
It will be confusing, feel like gaslighting, as we are attacked at the most vulnerable time in our lives.
We will question our worth in posting.
But remember, when it come to participating on AbFab's threads---
WE get to decide!
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if the real question is,' would we take them back ?' why didn't you just say so? AFAB, what I hear from you is bitterness and revenge. I feel as though you want to be apart of the reconciled group but you cant fit in. hows that for your hs drama?
as for me , I have moved forward with my life. but still standing. I do everything but date. does that make me stuck? then I guess so. as for detachment,that's easy when it isn't my h. but when it is I fall back again. I honestly believe until these 2 people morph back into one is when the new h will be revealed.
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Omg this thread blew up. Afab, always enjoyed reading your upbeat posts. At what point are we still considered newbies? 18 months in and i am almost divorced, 25 days to go. Am I still a newbie. No matter really, I only chimed in bc I want to know what the nonstanding sites are as i cannot seem to find them. I wouldnt take mlch back in a million years. If you have time any chabce you can pm them to me ? This "standing" forum brings me down... although there are some wonderful people here !!
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I am wondering why you noticed it on other sites but not on HS, Absolutely Fabulous.
We always say the choice is up to the LBS. RCR has it in her articles. There are many here who have made their choice.
Wonder if that is what you have on your site/business. Anyway, either you didn't pay enough attention to what has always been written on HS, or, for some reason, you decided to start a fuss.
As to the LBS gets to decide, they have always gotten to decide, IMO. Whether the MLCER comes back, or not. True, as a newbie we can't see it, we think our lives have been destroyed forever, but the destruction is only temporary. We all rise like a phoenix from the ashes, some take longer than others, but it happens IF WE CHOOSE.
This. And, like I mentioned above, that has always been said on HS.
AF, You were not clear on your first post that you were refering to MLCers that return, nor it it clear on the thread title. However, regardless, the choice is always up to the LBS.
As xyzcf said, anyone can post on a HS thread. Discussion are exactly that, discussion threads.
I do, however, agree that, some issues may be not seen the same way by a newbies or early timer and by a mid or long timer.
It is false that a MLCer returns when the LBS has found someone new. We have several LBS in new relationships, even marriages, and their MCLer has not returned. I have had a boyfriend. Mr J didn't return. Before anyone asks or it becomes a point of arguments, I didn't had the boyfriend to try to make Mr. J return. I may, or may not, have a new boyfriend in the future, but that, again, will not be to try to make Mr J return.
What is also false is that a MLCer returs when the LBS is healed, not angry and has done the work on themselves. Barbie's husband returned when she was none of those things - Barbie threads are very open on the matter. Mamma's Bear husband returned when she was far from healed, and, that I recall (it was years ago), she hadn't worked on hersrlf at all. We have no shortage of LBS who have done tons of work on themselves and their MLCer is still deep in crisis.
IN YOUR THREAD IT NEVER SOUNDED LIKE YOUR H WAS ASKING TO COME HOME. HE JUST HAPPENED TO BE AROUND.
Not all MLCers ask to come home. Some are always around, some never leave. And most don't exactly ask "can I come home".
HONESTLY, I DONT THINK THERE IS ANYTHING TO BE DISCUSSED ON THIS THREAD. IF THE MLCER ASKS TO COME HOME ,DONT WE ALL KNOW THAT WOULD BE OUR DECISION ? !!!!!!
Maybe not. But, as indicated by the icon, this is a discussion thread.
18 months is still a newbie.
As for non standing sites, there are many of us here who are not standing. I am not standing. I never was. However, there are still a million issues that a spouse MLC brings, even for those like myself that have a MLCer who, after over a decade, is still in Replay, that require the support of people who understand.
So far, HS is the only site I have liked enough to join and I feel at ease here.
Wonder why HS brings you down, Tyks. It does not bring me, Ready2, Learning, Nah, In It, and several other non-standers down. The fact we are not standing also doen't bring the standers down.
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Mamma's Bear husband returned when she was far from healed, and, that I recall (it was years ago), she hadn't worked on hersrlf at all. We have no shortage of LBS who have done tons of work on themselves and their MLCer is still deep in crisis.
I am friends with Mamma Bear outside of HS, and I don't know if this perception comes from our open talk about her H's OW (back in those days, we talked about the OW in general far more) or her ability to view her situation with a sense of humor. But rest assured, MB was a model stander, and as a person stronger than I'll ever be. She did her mirror work and fought the good fight. I agree with what you're saying that there's no 'formula' for how to be the perfect stander that assures a return, but I wanted to clarify about MB.
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Heck, I will jump in. This is my thoughts at roughly a year in.
When I first joined this forum, all I wanted to hear was she would be back. I wanted to hear that she still loved me and this MLC madness was not her fault and she was not in control of her actions.
Basically I was in denial. I thought I had a closer connection with my wife than all the rest of you. All this talk that MLC takes years, there is no way that can happen to me. This is temporary. Mine will be back in a few months, because she loves me. And she can't live without me. Basically I thought my case was special. IT WASNT.
But then as time passed I started to realize it's all wishful thinking and I accepted it. I accepted I'm not different than the rest of you. I've accepted this is HER fault, and even though MLC made it worse. She still was probably a sh@tty person at her core, and I only saw in her what I wanted to see. I think now these people are flawed and broken, and it just comes out at midlife because they can't deal with it anymore.
I think it will be years before she ever wanted to come back. And when she does want to come back, which I do believe she will try years from now, she will be completely broken and not the person I once loved. I think if I wait for her, I will wait years for her, and when she does come back broken. I will probably spend additional years again trying to fix her. And in that time I will probably be bomb dropped several more times and I will see my kids hurt over and over as well.
I ended my stand about 2 months ago because I came to the conclusion all I was doing was enabling her bad behavior. Before I ended my stand, she really did not call, and did not text me. She didn't even really respond to texts I sent her. She made me chase her and loved every second of the attention, as she played a victim to her white trash OM. The second I quit and she tried a few anchor checks and didn't get a response. She picked up on it andstarted to chase me. And you know what, it's driving her crazy. And I'm seeing much more moments of clarity. Because I was her safety net so she woudln't fall. But she knows that is gone now. And she has to deal with all her turmoil. Not me.
But in my experience the longer it takes you to reach this thinking, I think the longer your MLC will be in the tunnel. What is their incentive to get out of the tunnel if they know you will always be there to pick them back up? And I think a lot of the people on this forum don't ever really let them hit rock bottom. I see people talking on here that have been in this for 5 or 10 years and it sounds like they almost enable the MLC to continue their behavior.
I mean these people act like kids right, or even teenagers? How would you treat your kid or teenager if they did this to you?
If I could go back one year and tell myself one thing on how to handle this, this is what I would tell myself.
1) Take the Divorce as fast as you can. Take it while they still feel guilty and they are in the fog. Then take as much as you can, because you have one shot at this, and your home and in some cases, Custody, is at stake. Don't drag it out, don't try to prolong it. You can always get remarried if you want to someday. But I see so many try to stop the divorce and later regret it, because the MLC wakes up enough that they go after the stuff they would have gave you before.
Plus the Divorce doesn't change anything in the mind of MLC. They still act the exact same as they did before the divorce papers were signed. I didn't notice any difference with mine.
Basically move on with your life, and forget about them. Live like they aren't coming back. Because if you live like they will come back someday, you will be stuck, and I guarantee you will only make this last longer, and yourself even more miserable.
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I can only go from what LBS write on HS.
It comes a bit from the talk about her husband's OW, but also from lots of what Mamma Bear posted about herself/her beaviour/her interactions with her husband.
Her husband had a lot of issues, and I do not recall her doing much work on herself, more just keeping being her funny self and going with the flow. Which may even be a great away of going about this whole mess.
In fact, I am not even that sure that a lot of work on ourselves is going to be of much use. Not saying we shouldn't do some, but, it may make more sense to just keep living, like Mamma Bear did.
We end up becoming so worried with the whole work on yourself that we may forget to live and have fun.
I think it is important to highlight that there really isn't a one size fit all, no formula to be the perfect stander, or non stander, and what may work great for one person/couple may be a disaster for another.
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Thanks Anjae and R2T - I have often wondered how Mamma Bear was. I was pretty sure that her H returned but I never her saw come back here with an update.
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cplnorton:
And I think a lot of the people on this forum don't ever really let them hit rock bottom. I see people talking on here that have been in this for 5 or 10 years and it sounds like they almost enable the MLC to continue their behavior.
It is their crisis and I am 100% convinced that there is nothing that we say or do that can change their crisis.
We don't stop them from hitting rock bottom. Some are able to sustain their constant running and replay behavior for several years and never crash.
Many long time LBSers have very little contact with their MLCer. There are hardly any LBSers from when this site started in 2010 who continue to post so you do not know what they are doing in their lives or their interactions with their MLCer.
I am not sure what you think long time LBSers are doing to enable the MLC in their spouses. I have not lived on the same continent as my husband since 2009. I have very limited contact with him, mainly having contact with our daughter for events such as when she graduated and was married. I have nothing at all to do with his life.
Yet I am standing for our marriage because it is not about how long it takes or whether or not he returns....it is my belief of what God intended when we were married 40 years ago.
One off the common phrases that we tell LBSers is to live as though they are never coming back. It may take a while for LBSers to get over the trauma and grief of this sudden and unexpected end of their marriages, but in their own time, they will. We do not "make" their crisis last longer. That just is not how this works.
It is also advised not to pursue the MLC and to get on with your life. That has always been the message of HS since I became a member in 2010.
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I have to give a personal shout out to Absolutely Fabulous. Because she changed my whole outlook on this.
She reached out to me several months back when I was lost and checks on me almost daily.
To be honest, like several on this post, I didn't want to hear what she had to say. Because it was hard to hear. because all I wanted anyone to say to me was that my ex wife will be back.
Absolutely Fabulous and I started to talk and she slowly started to tell me a few things I didn't want to hear. And to her credit she did it in the best way possible. She watched for sings that I was ready and she did it subtle at first, but give me some kicks when I needed it. And got me to start thinking. And I realized she was right.
I see many on this forum that were like me. I see many that are stuck. They aren't really living. They are living in a shadow of what their old life was. In the meantime they are missing out so much on life. And what got me thinking was, as the MLC'er works their way out of the tunnel, why would they even want to come back to the LBS if we are just as weak as they are?
Basically think about what you are attracted to? Are you attracted to weak, pathetic, and sad? Or are you attracted to, strong, independent, intelligent, and confident?
It's all human nature. And Absolutely Fabulous really got me to see this. I honestly think if she didn't, I might have been one of those that were stuck.
So to me, even though she said some things I didn't want to hear early on. I'm so glad I listened and thought about what she had to say. Because it helped me to move on. And a side effect of this is. My MLC is chasing me now. Where she wasn't before.
I think that is all Absolutely Fabulous is doing here. She saying some things that are hard for some on this post to hear, because many are like I was, in denial. They still only want to hear their MLC will come back. Which is ok. It really is. We all process this differently.
But the sooner you can get to fully detached, and moving on with your life, and finding new happiness. I think you will be so much better off. I think we sometimes do a real disservice by telling new people on the forum to be the beacon of light for the MLC to come home to. I think we should be creating a beacon of light for ourselves and not worry what happens to them.
What do they always say about love. If you love something, let it go, and if it doesn't return it wasn't your's to begin with?
I think you have to fully and completely let them go, and the sooner you get there, the better.
I honestly agree with Absolutely Fabulous on this. I think all she is trying to do is help some people who are stuck.
Just listen to what she is saying with an open heart, it really changed my life. And I'm forever grateful for it.
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Thanks Anjae and R2T - I have often wondered how Mamma Bear was. I was pretty sure that her H returned but I never her saw come back here with an update.
You're welcome.
She did, long ago. But said she wouldn't be more around since she wanted to focus on her/their life.
How does one enable someone one does not see and, in many cases, have not seen in years? No idea.
On the other hand, some people have a live-in, or always around MLCer and their MLCer hits rock bottom and returns, that was Mamma Bear case. She never cut contact with her husband.
Therefore, doing one thing may work with one person, but not with another.
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Angae, 18 months is not a newbie. HS keeps me stuck because it continually reminds me of the pain of bd and the first year of turmoil. I enjoy reading certain posters with my morning coffee but there has never really been a lot of support for nonstanders. It is like we have the plague or are devil's children bc we do not allow our self respecf to be trashed.
Some people tell us to live like they are not coming back ... but does that not involve moving on in all aspects of our lives? We are supposed to get a life and do our mirror work ... but some think that something is wrong with us as soon as we announce we are not standing.
I think this forum should be broken up into two parts. Standers/reconciliations and nonstanding/moving on bc no matter where we are in this journey we still need support. I have met some amazing people here and am grateful everyday for the support I received as a "newbie" but now I, like many others, need a different kind of supoort. I need the atta girl for buying my own house or the you go girl if I have a date etc. I am sure there are many more who would like to see this happen
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cplnorton:
And I think a lot of the people on this forum don't ever really let them hit rock bottom. I see people talking on here that have been in this for 5 or 10 years and it sounds like they almost enable the MLC to continue their behavior.
It is their crisis and I am 100% convinced that there is nothing that we say or do that can change their crisis.
We don't stop them from hitting rock bottom. Some are able to sustain their constant running and replay behavior for several years and never crash.
Many long time LBSers have very little contact with their MLCer. There are hardly any LBSers from when this site started in 2010 who continue to post so you do not know what they are doing in their lives or their interactions with their MLCer.
I am not sure what you think long time LBSers are doing to enable the MLC in their spouses. I have not lived on the same continent as my husband since 2009. I have very limited contact with him, mainly having contact with our daughter for events such as when she graduated and was married. I have nothing at all to do with his life.
Yet I am standing for our marriage because it is not about how long it takes or whether or not he returns....it is my belief of what God intended when we were married 40 years ago.
One off the common phrases that we tell LBSers is to live as though they are never coming back. It may take a while for LBSers to get over the trauma and grief of this sudden and unexpected end of their marriages, but in their own time, they will. We do not "make" their crisis last longer. That just is not how this works.
It is also advised not to pursue the MLC and to get on with your life. That has always been the message of HS since I became a member in 2010.
I think it's very simple. He knows you are waiting for him. Your MLC knows he can give you a call tomorrow and you will take him back. That is enabling to him. Because he knows no matter how bad he acts, you are there for him.
As a man when I used to date in high school. And I was childish and immature, I had a girl that I didn't really care for. But I knew she really liked me. And I could have done anything to her and she would have always taken me back. I didn't choose her first, but in a pinch when I had no one else, I knew I could call her and she would be there in a second.
She was my backup. I think many woman LBS on this page are backups, when all else fails for the MLC, they are old reliable and the MLC knows this. Even though you spent all those years married to them. They have regressed back to the immature a##hole I was back as a teenager, and are probably thinking the same way I did back then.
But Don't be a backup. Don't let your MLC treat you like a backup. He will never respect you until you respect yourself enough to not tolerate that behavior.
My one backup I had as a teenager, finally got fed up with my stupid sh@t and not only found someone else, but she told me exactly what she thought of me when she did. And she told me as confident as she could have.
And you know what, it made me realize how special she was. And I didn't think of her as a backup anymore. In fact it really made me sort of want her. lol As messed up as that childish thinking it is. I doubt our MLC think much different.
I don't know your situation, but I know how men think. Especially immature men that think a woman will do anything for him. Maybe start to think about how he perceives you in this. Just a thought you know?
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Amen, cp!!
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We the LBS have the power to deal with the mlcer how we choose. I no longer chase after h or focus on what he is doing. I have other things going on that need my focus.
Am I still a newbie? Yes. But only I and the people around me see me and what goes on are the ones that truly know where I am at in this journey. I'm no longer the lost woman who cries and can't eat or sleep. I no longer wait for his texts. I no longer beg for him to come home. However, I will never try to persuade anyone to stand or not to stand. It isn't my call and this is supposed to be a safe place for all.
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CP, indeed you do not know me or my situation.
I have a different view than you of MLC. What you think of how men behave is not necessarily the same as how an MLCer will behave.
As I have explained, I believe that marriage is indisolvable. His crisis does not change my beliefs nor will it cause me to go against what I believe regarding marriage.
This is my choice and it is also the choice of many other standers....it is not about his thinking I will take him back. We are still married in the eyes of God.
We have become a society that no longer values faithfulness, or sacrifice. The family is under attack and few people will go against what society tells us is right. My ideas are considered old fashioned..but are they?
I have just made a different decision than you and others who stopped standing. I don't put others down for their choices of not standing. That is not for me to judge.
Just like it is not for you to judge how I live my life, especially since you have no idea who I am or how I live.
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It doesn’t really matter if someone is standing or not. The real question is: will you want them back after it’s all said and done? After the mirror work, the loses and gains, the new life, or new person who helps you pick up the pieces. In the end what will you choose if that day come? The LBSer not the MLCer. What will you decide?
My answer??
ABSOLUTELY firetruckING NOT!
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Angae, 18 months is not a newbie.
Sorry, but 18 months is still a a newbie. You may not think so, but it is. Not a fresh from BD newbie, but still a newbie. 2.5 years may make you a mid timer. You need to remember that there are people whose spouse has been in Replay for 11 or so years. Therefore, 18 months is a newbie.
HS keeps me stuck because it continually reminds me of the pain of bd and the first year of turmoil.
Nothing is going to erase BD pain aside from time. BD pain also has nothing to do with being, or not being a stander.
It is like we have the plague or are devil's children bc we do not allow our self respecf to be trashed.
I truly do not understand what you mean.
Some people tell us to live like they are not coming back ... but does that not involve moving on in all aspects of our lives? We are supposed to get a life and do our mirror work ... but some think that something is wrong with us as soon as we announce we are not standing.
It does. However, regardless of being, or not being a stander, there is a period when we truly aren't ready to move on with certain areas of our life. You are still hurt from BD, therefore, you are still not ready for certain things. For example, a new relationship.
Does this mean you cannot have a new relationship while still hurt from BD? No. But you will still be taking that pain into the new relationship.
I think this forum should be broken up into two parts. Standers/reconciliations and nonstanding/moving on bc no matter where we are in this journey we still need support
That is a no. The subject wad debated over the years by RCR and mods (I was a mod for many years) and it was decided not to create divisions. Also, it would be very difficult because people can stop standing, go back to standing, etc.
What type of support do you need? Being a stander or not a stander is not going to change a certain type of necessary support, because there is a part of support that has nothing to do with that.
I need the atta girl for buying my own house or the you go girl if I have a date etc. I am sure there are many more who would like to see this happen
You haven't been paying much attention to HS, have you? I lost count of how many you go girl/boy that were given/said, and still are, when a LBS buys a new home/has someone new in their lives, etc.
I think many woman LBS on this page are backups, when all else fails for the MLC, they are old reliable and the MLC knows this.
You're wrong. That may be so for newbies, men and women, but it not the case for many mid or long timers. You have missed the part of many LBS being in a new relationhs/new marriage.
In fact, at this point, there aren't those many long time LBS here who would take their MCLer back.
But the LBS having someone new hasn't made the MLCer come out of their crisis like you have said on your previous post.
What I tend to notice is that newbies/LBS who do not know HS very well and over the years, and who do not know how many stories here are, think a lot of things, have many ideas about what may, or may not, work with a MCLer, yet, failed to truly read threads from over the years.
Also don't realise that, for example, RCR never cut contact with her husband. He come and went some 7 or 8 times and they reconciled. Cut contact with a MLCer may, in some cases, not help. That is especially true of clingy-boomerangs.
Men aren't all alike, CP. Nor are women.
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I am glad you found my post “ amusing”. I am sorry that I cannot say the same about yours.
Your statement that MLCers come back when the LBSer meets someone else is false and without any proof at all. Standing is about much more than getting our spouses back.
Our spouses are in crisis. Nothing we do is going to cause them to return until their crisis is over.
I’ll put up the links tomorrow when I have more time, but for now stay tuned. Your need to keep this cat fight going is sad and distracts from the posts. As always you don’t disappoint in the ramping up the drama arena...
Thanks for all of you that are past the Newbie stage and ( the stuck ones that have been enabling the most recent ones for years). Thank you for not taking the bai from what I call the usual subjects.
Searching you don’t just ask innocent questions. And you seem to be the one that gets he ball rolling with the drama on my other threads. Then the other cats join in and divert from the real point of the thread. Not only do they jump in without reading the entire posts.
You started this cat fight and the rest joined in. Clp Norton thanks for sharing. I love how you mentioned maturity levels. Barbiedoll and the others that have been staying with the point of the thread.
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CP, indeed you do not know me or my situation.
I have a different view than you of MLC. What you think of how men behave is not necessarily the same as how an MLCer will behave.
As I have explained, I believe that marriage is indisolvable. His crisis does not change my beliefs nor will it cause me to go against what I believe regarding marriage.
This is my choice and it is also the choice of many other standers....it is not about his thinking I will take him back. We are still married in the eyes of God.
We have become a society that no longer values faithfulness, or sacrifice. The family is under attack and few people will go against what society tells us is right. My ideas are considered old fashioned..but are they?
I have just made a different decision than you and others who stopped standing. I don't put others down for their choices of not standing. That is not for me to judge.
Just like it is not for you to judge how I live my life, especially since you have no idea who I am or how I live.
If that’s not the pot calling the kettle black...
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I guess we will have to agree to disagree. :)
But as much as we talk about the MLC living in a fog, I think the LBS lives in a fog just as much. And I think how the MLC has to work their way out of the tunnel. We as LBS have to work out of the tunnel as well, and stop being in denial about the reality of this all.
I just see a lot of people stuck on this forum and living in the tunnel. Not so much the newbs as that should be expected. I think if you are under 2 years on here, you should still be in a tunnel. But the ones that have been here all these years and still in denial, I just think they are stuck.
On a side note on religion. I'm probably one of the more religious people on this forum, and I sort of resent a comment earlier that those who have ended our stand, don't have the same views on marriage. That to me is so wrong.
For me, I never gave up on my marriage. She did. And just like if she had died, and I was remarried, I do not believe God will look down at me for this. Because she did die. I gave everything I had to keep my marriage and I have no reservations standing in front of God and looking him in the eye and saying that. And I firmly believe he knows I did everything I could.
When this all started, I said I only have to stand and look at three people in the eye about the failure of my marriage.
Two were my 2 sons, when someday they are grown men, and God. And I have no problem standing in front of any of them and looking them in the eye, standing tall, with my head held high.
God didn't plan on marriage being like this for us. The Devil temped our spouses, and our spouses gave in.
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if the real question is,' would we take them back ?' why didn't you just say so? AFAB, what I hear from you is bitterness and revenge. I feel as though you want to be apart of the reconciled group but you cant fit in. hows that for your hs drama?
as for me , I have moved forward with my life. but still standing. I do everything but date. does that make me stuck? then I guess so. as for detachment,that's easy when it isn't my h. but when it is I fall back again. I honestly believe until these 2 people morph back into one is when the new h will be revealed.
The answer? The discussion was supposed to bring that out. It wasn’t about me to begin with. Somehow that got lost in translation...
As with other posts I’ve read, but refrained from posting on (some would do well to follow that course as well, but I digress) emotions took over instead of thinking and you have the mess you have been reading before you.
The usual attacks started once I clarified, that’s gotten out of control on this forum. Often. And the personal attacks that go with it. Doesn’t bother me, I’m past all of it. I think many people who are at this point are no longer in the coddling business. We know it only prolongs the LBSers suffering. I’m direct and that won’t change. I’m also unfazed by the attacks of old timers. I’m healed enough to recognize those who aren’t.
Newbies don’t be fooled, many of the old timers are stuck in loops. Don’t think so? See how often they post daily and how many post the same things. They just recycle information.
The elephant in the room question is: Just how much power does the MLCer have over you, where you really believe they hold all the cards? And how many of you are going to listen to the one man that has told you how your immature MLCer thinks and why early returns resort in more Bomb drops?
Think on that one for a minute...
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Sigh....
CP:
On a side note on religion. I'm probably one of the more religious people on this forum, and I sort of resent a comment earlier that those who have ended our stand, don't have the same views on marriage. That to me is so wrong.
I made it very very very clear that these are my beliefs. I do not expect anyone else to share my beliefs and I do not judge anyone else for what they believe.
I have never wavered in 8 1/2 years about my beliefs and I will never waiver on this.
So please, do not put words that are not there.
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Can we get back to the topic now? Everyone has taken this far enough off topic that people have no clue what the thread was about:
The LBSer decides:
- once the MLC leaves the tunnel and decides to come back, for those that do come back
- the LBSer has a decision to make: pick up the pieces or continue to move on.
- the LBSer has to decide if whether divorced or not if it is worth another try or saving.
- the non standing LBSer that has an MLCer will have to decide the nature of the new dynamics of the relationship (friends or not), upon the crisis being over.
Lastly, will you help them put their life back together regardless of the nature of your relationship?
Clear enough for everyone now?
We begin here, everything else is just a distraction. Period.
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The answer? The discussion was supposed to bring that out. It wasn’t about me to begin with. Somehow that got lost in translation...
I've been off the forum for a while, but I've noticed something on other sites: it's the LBSer not the MLCer that decides if the MLCer can come back.
If and/or when the MLCer finally emerges from the tunnel is not the determinant, it's the LBSers decision, not the MLCers.
The parts in italic was not on your original post, it was placed/edited afterwards. After some of us told you your post wasn't clear enough on its purpose.
I wondered why so few reconciliation stories.
There are more reconciliation stories than the ones you see posted about. People just aren't posting about it.
You bring, fire, petrol and flames, change your opening post, then complain people are being emotional or whatever. Yet, you fail to answer when things you claim to be are challenged.
You even complain people are discussing, on a discussing thread, that you said "Should be a interesting discussion.
Exactly what is your problem, AF? You change the goal posts of the thread, you edit your posts, you«re upset people are discussing on a discussion thread, you are telling people they cannot post or should not, on a discussion thread, etc.
The same old my3girls, who loved to start a fight is back?
Or are you collecting info for your business?
Can we get back to the topic now? Everyone has taken this far enough off topic that people have no clue what the thread was about:
The LBSer decides:
- once the MLC leaves the tunnel and decides to come back, for those that do come back
- the LBSer has a decision to make: pick up the pieces or continue to move on.
- the LBSer has to decide if whether divorced or not if it is worth another try or saving.
- the non standing LBSer that has an MLCer will have to decide the nature of the new dynamics of the relationship (friends or not), upon the crisis being over.
Lastly, will you help them put their life back together regardless of the nature of your relationship?
Clear enough for everyone now?
We begin here, everything else is just a distraction. Period.
You should had begin with this. It was you who created the mess, confusion and flames. The thread is on page 11 and post 100 (101 with mine) from a maximum of 15 pages/150 posts per thread. It took you this long to be clear in what was the purpose? Some how, I doubt.
As for "period", you don't get to rule how poeple respond and react to what you post. Let alone when you start one way and then changed it.
Don't want logic where there was none to start with. Nor people to agree with you just because.
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And again thank you Anjae for starting this up again. The whole point is to get to the topic. You’re not in control of this thread and the last time I checked, I have made multiple attempts to stay on topic.
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The answer? The discussion was supposed to bring that out. It wasn’t about me to begin with. Somehow that got lost in translation...
I've been off the forum for a while, but I've noticed something on other sites: it's the LBSer not the MLCer that decides if the MLCer can come back.
If and/or when the MLCer finally emerges from the tunnel is not the determinant, it's the LBSers decision, not the MLCers.
The parts in italic was not on your original post, it was placed/edited afterwards. After some of us told you your post wasn't clear enough on its purpose.
I wondered why so few reconciliation stories.
There are more reconciliation stories than the ones you see posted about. People just aren't posting about it.
You bring, fire, petrol and flames, change your opening post, then complain people are being emotional or whatever. Yet, you fail to answer when things you claim to be are challenged.
You even complain people are discussing, on a discussing thread, that you said "Should be a interesting discussion.
Exactly what is your problem, AF? You change the goal posts of the thread, you edit your posts, you«re upset people are discussing on a discussion thread, you are telling people they cannot post or should not, on a discussion thread, etc.
The same old my3girls, who loved to start a fight is back?
Or are you collecting info for your business?
Can we get back to the topic now? Everyone has taken this far enough off topic that people have no clue what the thread was about:
The LBSer decides:
- once the MLC leaves the tunnel and decides to come back, for those that do come back
- the LBSer has a decision to make: pick up the pieces or continue to move on.
- the LBSer has to decide if whether divorced or not if it is worth another try or saving.
- the non standing LBSer that has an MLCer will have to decide the nature of the new dynamics of the relationship (friends or not), upon the crisis being over.
Lastly, will you help them put their life back together regardless of the nature of your relationship?
Clear enough for everyone now?
We begin here, everything else is just a distraction. Period.
You should had begin with this. It was you who created the mess, confusion and flames. The thread is on page 11 and post 100 (101 with mine) from a maximum of 15 pages/150 posts per thread. It took you this long to be clear in what was the purpose? Some how, I doubt.
As for "period", you don't get to rule how poeple respond and react to what you post. Let alone when you start one way and then changed it.
Don't want logic where there was none to start with. Nor people to agree with you just because.
Apparently you didn’t read the first post. I would suggest that you do, this time without cherry picking and twisting what I wrote. Out of everyone on this forum, I have had He most run ins with you.
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Not only I did, I quoted it on that post and even said you have changed it, adding what is now on your fist post in italic. Did you miss what I wrote? I had read it the first time I read this thread. It wasn't clear and it didn't said what it says now.
Pay attention to what others right to you. And read my post again.
This is what is on that post of mine you have just quoted:
I've been off the forum for a while, but I've noticed something on other sites: it's the LBSer not the MLCer that decides if the MLCer can come back.
If and/or when the MLCer finally emerges from the tunnel is not the determinant, it's the LBSers decision, not the MLCers.
The parts in italic was not on your original post, it was placed/edited afterwards. After some of us told you your post wasn't clear enough on its purpose.
You have changed your first post. I already said it before. How many more times do I have to say it?
The LBSer decides:
- once the MLC leaves the tunnel and decides to come back, for those that do come back
- the LBSer has a decision to make: pick up the pieces or continue to move on.
- the LBSer has to decide if whether divorced or not if it is worth another try or saving.
- the non standing LBSer that has an MLCer will have to decide the nature of the new dynamics of the relationship (friends or not), upon the crisis being over.
Lastly, will you help them put their life back together regardless of the nature of your relationship?
Aside from the last, the others aren't questions. You are stating things, not asking.
No, I will not help Mr. J put his life together. That is is business, not mine.
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I feel this thread is getting to the heart of the matter in many ways.
I want to say, I agree with CPL up to a point. I think that it is best to divorce right away. I think any new LBS very first priority should be self protection. This includes physical, emotional, and financial. Custody may depend on state of country, as well as type of MLCer. Once this is done then he/she can regroup and take the next step and that is to decide what the future might be with the MLCer, depending on how things play out.
However, I don’t agree that the LBS influences the course of MLC. I’m actually speaking from observed experience. This runs in my former H family and tends to strike around age 43. His sister who is three years older had one about eight years ago.
I have talked to her ex H in detail. He was an incredible guy. She would have been the first to say this until her crisis hit. Then she hated him and wanted a divorce.
He told me that despite moments of clarity she could not pursue any type of healthy path to recovery and seemed to cycle. She had been in therapy/psychiatric care this entire time and received a mix diagnosis of cyclothemia and bipolar.
Her ex moved on quickly, acted swiftly and stratigically in the divorce. It didn’t matter. He could have won the Nobel Prize, authored a best-selling memoir called “My Failed Marriage, My Fault,” dated a supermodel physicist, and developed a six pack to go with his killer smile. IT WOULDN’T have mattered.
If someone’s brain is misfunctioning like a MLCers, they cannot weigh consequences, predict outcomes, or feel empathy. It has nothing to do with anything other than brain function, in my opinion. I think some do recover if they hit “bottom” quickly, just like a person with bipolar is more likely to seek help in the depressive stage. But others are more like cyclothemia, highs and lows but no major crash unless years down the road.
My former SIL seems to have hit this eight years in. She destroyed her own perfectly happy life for nothing. If she had a healthier family, she may have received more intervention. Unfortunately, this seems to run in families.
I want to add I feel that kindness and respectful disagreement need to be a priority on either thread. I also cringe when I see people put people into groups, especially to characterize some as more “recovered” than others. I feel this is nonsensical. Some people might come here to confess their complex and difficult feelings and others may come here to share their GAL stories. I feel sad when I see comments like this, which can add additional shame to someone experiencing ongoing trauma.
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For those of you who disagree? Keep in mind you didn’t have to join the discussion. As for the mess and chaos? This thread went over several people’s heads. And apparently hit some where you lived. I love how quickly the defenses went up of those who aren’t seeing returns, progress or waiting for several years. The reason has nothing to do with this discussion, but more to do with your own personal situations. Many of which had nothing to do with this thread, other than venting.
Will get back to this in the morning.
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I also cringe when I see people put people into groups, especially to characterize some as more “recovered” than others. I feel this is nonsensical.
But this happens to be true. A newbie and someone 10 + years from BD will not be on the same level of recovery. Denying that there are different levels of recovery is bury our head in the sand. Is the truth a problem?
Some people might come here to confess their complex and difficult feelings and others may come here to share their GAL stories. I feel sad when I see comments like this, which can add additional shame to someone experiencing ongoing trauma.
Sure. People are here for different reasons. It does not invalidate that there are different levels of recovered/healed. Saying someone is not healed enough is shameful? I would see it as logical and truthful.
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Yes, cplnorton: I am my husband's "backup." As I have mentioned many times on this site, my beautiful husband, soulmate, best friend and fantastic dad of our 4 children is terminally ill.
You mentioned something about your wife losing it in midlife due to whatever reasons you grasped at. Okay. My husband is really and truly and literally losing his mind. The neurons are dying and soon the cascade will begin until my man is reduced to a teen, then a child, followed by an infant, and finally his death.
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For those of you who disagree? Keep in mind you didn’t have to join the discussion.
Um, it's a discussion thread. You start a discussion thread then object when someone disagrees with you? That's not a discussion.
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I think it is most important during this hell is to trust your instincts that something is very, perhaps irreparably, wrong with your spouse. Trust yourself. I actually started observing my husband clinically about a year before BD. I knew I was witnessing something profound. When you sense the disconnection, trust yourself. At BD you will be traumatized and in shock, but since you were already on alert it wasn't a complete surprise.
I agree with many others on this site: Divorce as soon as they leave the house. Once they abandon you and the children they are GONE. You are tough and strong. If they are at all willing, get them to a neurologist. Permit yourself to grieve, but know that you had many years, decades, of love and True Romance, and not a lot of people can say the same. They adored their life with you.
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The problem is that we don't/didn't have a clue what you are/were asking/want. Or didn't have until reply #100. Still, you only had one question on that post.
How do you want a discussion if people have to agree with you? That isn't a discussion.
Several of us already said that, yes, the LBS gets to decide. Be it to take the MLCer back, to move on without the MLCer, etc. That also doesn't seem to be enough for you.
Exactly why have you started this thread? You aren't reconcilled, even if your husband has tried to come back. So, why are you interested in reconciliations and why there doesn't seem to be those many?
MLCers do not have to come back for a LBS to make a decision. The decision can be made without wanting to know if the MLCer is, or is not, coming back.
Your husband isn't having a MLC, bvFTD. He is not coming back nor going back to normal once the crisis is over. He is, like you say, terminally ill. That is another level and very different from having a MLCer.
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Yes, cplnorton: I am my husband's "backup." As I have mentioned many times on this site, my beautiful husband, soulmate, best friend and fantastic dad of our 4 children is terminally ill.
You mentioned something about your wife losing it in midlife due to whatever reasons you grasped at. Okay. My husband is really and truly and literally losing his mind. The neurons are dying and soon the cascade will begin until my man is reduced to a teen, then a child, followed by an infant, and finally his death.
Yeah I was my ex wifes backup. :( I was the backup to a 24 year old white trash guitar player with a beard down to his waist.
My ex wife was seeing him as the primary, and when he was at work. She would come see me and the kids, and play wife/mother for a couple hours. And I let her do it. Each time she left, I felt my heart being ripped out even more, and what was horrible I let it happen to my kids. I wasn't protecting them as much as I should have, as I was selfish and wanted my ex wive back. So I let her hurt us all, just in some vain attempt to bring her home.
About six months ago I knew I wasn't strong enough to tell her to stay away, so in a moment of strength I did the one thing I knew that would keep her away. I sent her boyfriend the text messages she sent me. Where she said a lot of things she never wanted him to see. lol
As soon as he saw them, he confronted her, and she immediately called me and I got full monster. Now the OM keeps such a tight leash on her, that she cannot even come her kids if she wanted to, let alone see me.
IT was the hardest decision I ever made. But it was for the best. I knew I wasn't strong enough to say no, and I knew she would just hurt me over and over, so I removed the option for her even to come over. Even though I even regretted it right away, I'm so happy now I did it. Because with her gone, my kids have been so much better off. I've been able to find peace in so much of the chaos. And I'm looking forward to life.
I still have hard days. I still miss her at times. But it would be so much worse if I left her continually come into my life and then disappear again.
But yeah I was my wife's backup too. D@mn it hurts. I'm really sorry you are going through this. It isn't fair. :(
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Wait, CP, you have been bashing people because they are close to their MLCer and you have to send a text to OM because you weren't strong enough to say no, that made your wife not being able to see the kids? And you think you did a good thing? Keeping the kids from their mother? Is that even legal where you live?
You have kids who now do not see their mother. Not only that, you have actually got involved into a situation is was not yours to be involved with, text OM. I don't see how you can be so harsh to others when you have done one of the things we are told never to do, contact OW/OM and be involved in our MLCer affairs with OW/OM.
I am amazed at how some of you act towards others, then it turns out you aren't the super heros you like to tell us you are.
See, CP, several of us managed to either cut contact with our MLCer without involving OW/OM or keep some level of contact becuase their are kids. I found those two things much braver than having to be rescued by OW/OM because se can't say no to our MLCer.
Sometimes there is no shortage of hypocrisy around here.
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Cpl:
You did what needed to be done, in my opinion - for you, your children, and for your wife, even though she will never thank you. I cannot believe what we are called on to deal with, but we will do so for we have no choice.
Love and Strength to us all.
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For those of you who disagree? Keep in mind you didn’t have to join the discussion.
But earlier you said:
I was once a newbie and I wanted validation as well, but I quickly discovered that not all threads were for me. And truthfull, I’m personally tired of the entitlement that I’m finding that many newbies have concerning threads that don’t fit their situations
Wanting only people that agree with you to post on your thread and trying to exclude people from your thread whose situations who are different from yours is doing exactly what you accuse newbies of doing. You still want validation and you still suffer from a sense of entitlement.
The reason those of us who disagree with you join the discussion is because we aren't afraid of those who we don't agree with. It doesn't bother us that others don't agree with us, it doesn't bother us that other people have different experiences or are at different stages. We have open minds.
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Wait, CP, you have been bashing people because they are close to their MLCer and you have to send a text to OM because you weren't strong enough to say no, that made your wife not being able to see the kids? And you think you did a good thing? Keeping the kids from their mother? Is that even legal where you live?
You have kids who now do not see their mother. Not only that, you have actually got involved into a situation is was not yours to be involved with, text OM. I don't see how you can be so harsh to others when you have done one of the things we are told never to do, contact OW/OM and be involved in our MLCer affairs with OW/OM.
I am amazed at how some of you act towards others, then it turns out you aren't the super heros you like to tell us you are.
See, CP, several of us managed to either cut contact with our MLCer without involving OW/OM or keep some level of contact becuase their are kids. I found those two things much braver than having to be rescued by OW/OM because se can't say no to our MLCer.
Sometimes there is no shortage of hypocrisy around here.
Ok ladies, do you know why a lot of us men don't comment on this forum after a while? And we all disappear? It's because of drama, drama, drama. Just like this above.
I mean she is personally attacking me and it's obvious that she has never once read anything about my story.
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For all of your accusing me of bullying you. Take a look at how women bully and do a little mirror work.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/09/mean-girls-become-mean-women-how-to-protect-yourself-from-adult-regina-georges-6679929/
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Cpl:
You did what needed to be done, in my opinion - for you, your children, and for your wife, even though she will never thank you. I cannot believe what we are called on to deal with, but we will do so for we have no choice.
Love and Strength to us all.
Thank you. I have to say I didn't fully understand your one post on your MLC'er being terminal. I didn't realize it until someone else commented.
Wow, that adds a complete different layer into the mix. I don't know how I would handle that one. Because the one thing you need in this MLC situation is time, and time is a luxury you don't have.
Like for me, I know someday she will leave the tunnel and I think we will be able to then have a civil relationship for the kids. And I imagine she will feel sorry for what she did. But I don't know how I would address that situation like yours
I'm so sorry bvFTD. My heart sank for you when I read that. I just pray you find peace in this before it's too late. I'm so, so sorry. :(
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I think it is most important during this hell is to trust your instincts that something is very, perhaps irreparably, wrong with your spouse. Trust yourself. I actually started observing my husband clinically about a year before BD. I knew I was witnessing something profound. When you sense the disconnection, trust yourself. At BD you will be traumatized and in shock, but since you were already on alert it wasn't a complete surprise.
I agree with many others on this site: Divorce as soon as they leave the house. Once they abandon you and the children they are GONE. You are tough and strong. If they are at all willing, get them to a neurologist. Permit yourself to grieve, but know that you had many years, decades, of love and True Romance, and not a lot of people can say the same. They adored their life with you.
I went back and was re-reading, as I've skipped some of the posts, because it seemed like some are just angry and looking to pick a fight with anyone who doesn't think exactly like them.
But I love this above! I fully agree!
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CPL-I have to admit, I maybe have read a total of two posts from AbFab when she was My3Girls maybe 9 months ago. I immediately realized she was not someone who interacting with would offer me any benefit. I have not had any sort of previous run-ins or interaction with her AT ALL because I just did not even bother to read anything she wrote. I NEVER even opened her threads again to know anything about her. If I had seen My3Girls as the author of this thread, I would have not even bothered to open it. It was not based on any animosity, just indifference and disinterest.
Yet, thinking this thread was started by someone else who I knew absolutely nothing about her situation, I was game, jumped in, with no preconceived notions about her or a chip on my shoulder toward her, unlike what is clearly the case for a lot of the posters on this thread. I stated my opinion, and was quickly branded as someone who had come here to stir up trouble and who wasn't interested in the topic. Well, I opened this thread for one reason, the topic, because I knew nothing about the original poster or her past history of run-ins with many members of the forum, neither under her previous name of my3girls or AbFab. She had every opportunity with this thread to make a good first impression on me that could have stuck.
Yet obviously, she has lumped me together with the others that she has a past history with that I knew nothing about and attacked me for it.
So please, don't accuse all us women of seeking drama. I came here to discuss the TOPIC, and I got nothing but vitriol from your friend who started this thread that I have ZERO past interaction with.
This is the first and last thread by AbFab that I will participate in. It is unfortunate that she claimed to be interested in the forthcoming discussion and then has tried to shut it down as soon as it started, but in doing so, made this thread reach 12 pages in less than 24 hours. It's a truly strange dynamic and clearly she is loving the attention but not the discussion and you know what they say, don't feed the monster, and I have no interest in feeding this monster ever again.
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For all of your accusing me of bullying you. Take a look at how women bully and do a little mirror work.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/09/mean-girls-become-mean-women-how-to-protect-yourself-from-adult-regina-georges-6679929/
Thank you for sharing this as it proves I am not bullying you:
Mean women typically target other women based on their own insecurities. Usually the victim will be independent, popular, successful – in short, a threat in some way to the aggressor. But often, mean women won’t actively target a victim unless they think they can get away with it. Their mean behaviour takes the form of prolonged, covert nastiness – if they think the victim might blow the whistle on them then they’re less likely to act.
Since I had no clue about whether you were independent, popular or successful or a threat to me or anything whatsoever about you before I opened this thread, then obviously have no way to match you to any insecurities I may or may not have. And since this is the first and last thread of yours I will ever post on, I clearly have not been engaging in a prolonged and covert campaign against you. I also encouraged you to complain to a moderator if my behavior was inappropriate, in effect, asking you to blow the whistle on me if indeed I was bullying you.
You also seem to imply by sharing this article that you are being targeted by groups of women. Considering I had no knowledge of your now obvious problems with other women on this forum or any clue how you interacted with anyone on this forum previously for that matter, it is patently ridiculous to suggest that I am joining in some bash AbFab actions. I spoke for myself and myself alone, without any coordination with anyone else or without any knowledge that others would agree with me or not.
You do not have to fear me, I do not have groups of female friends because I know how they can become bullies and I do not want to be part of that dynamic. Since I have been a teenager, I have kept all my female friends separate deliberately. I only have one-on-one friendships. I would actually rather be bullied, than be a bully, because I prefer to take the high road. I will not be joining the crowd of women on here that you seem to think are bullying you, whether that is a correct assessment of their behavior or not. So no I will not follow you around this forum along with these others, I will not read your posts again, I will show you my back again like I have until now. I promise you that. I hope that makes you happy.
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I posted at the start of this thread and have read every post since. There is just so much wrong with this thread from so many Posters, why is that so???
OK, AbFab is my3girls! I too had a run in with her last year on a Thread and a PM Level. That doesnt interest me anymore. She is not easy to get along with, i know that all too well but she hasnt really done much wrong with this Thread.
Everybody just calm down and be civil, the Topic is interesting to say the least. Dont spoil it.
I am one year in (a newbie). I stood tall and proud for more than 6 months. I did all I could and fought a war which couldnt be won until W made the Situation unbearable for me and my Boys. I joined this Forum 2-3 weeks after BD and was posting pre BD2 (OM). Its all there, my whole Story documented as it happened with no BS!!!
It may be just a year but most will agree that I have put up with more in this time than others in 5-6 years have had to put up with....
I have filed for D! I was the one who decided to end my M (legally) but W was the one who officially ended our M!. I really have no choice. She is miles away from reality, she has done more than a 180, its more like a 540 and shes still Spinning. There is NO WAY that I would want anything to do with this woman as she is so im moving on and living my life. Yes i have met somebody but that just happened, it wasnt planned.
I too would suggest "Get the firetruck out of the way before you destroy/waste your life"! If the MLCer eventually awakes then I am confident that it will make no difference atall what happened during the C! I too believe that Standing/not moving on can just make the C longer than it could have been if you turn your back and go... I have witnessed this in my BIL.
If your available then they will just Keep doing theyre Thing, why wouldnt they? Think about it for a while!! If you have nothing to loose then you can Keep on playing... I am not saying that dropping your stand will get your MLCer to awake, I could but that shouldnt be the reason for being done.
Q: Would I give up on K because W suddenly realizes that im not responsible for her whatever it is?
A: Not a Chance in hell would I.
Q: If W were to reappear, whenever that should happen, as she was before the MLC set in and really saw what damage was done and really was sorry, owned her mistakes and wanted to save "Us", would I give her a Chance?
A: Depends on where I am at that given time. I will not think about that atm as it is not worth the energy! Our M/R is dead, gone. If anything should happen further down the line then it would be the same as with a total stranger. MY W IS GONE! FOREVER!.
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I have to agree with gig. If i knew it was my 3 girls i wouldnt have followed along either. She has started many thread with little response. She needed the name change for people to respond.
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Anjae:
The cpl is protecting his children by keeping them away from their mother. A disordered, selfish, irrational, MLCer who is devoid of emotions and love for her family has no business being around young children.
I look forward to the time our divorces will be recognized as abnormal by family courts requiring special protections because in our cases, the breakup is only the beginning of Hell.
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CPL - I couldn't agree more with what you have said.
I am 2 years post BD and I wish I had handled the selling of our flat a lot quicker as I would have been able to get more from the property when my ex was in the early stages of his crisis. I think I handled everything else quite quickly. He moved out, but I made sure that his stuff was moved. I moved in on getting maintenance and access to our kids sorted ASAP and this meant that I protected my son and my unborn daughter (who is now a gorgeous 17 month old) as best I could.
I don't know what I will do when he decides to come back, but I firmly believe that he will and that it probably will be when I meet someone else. I don't think I have truly moved on and given up. I want to get to that stage though. I also think like CPL, that these MLC'ers have always had something not quite right about them. I know my ex has had a history of serious depression and I think they just get worse at midlife and can't contain it any longer.
I can only say what will happen when it happens as at the moment I do not know. I suppose at 2 years I am fairly new to this, but I am neither standing or done. I'm just getting on with life and will see what will happen.
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"I am neither standing or done. I'm just getting on with life and will see what will happen."
EXACTLY!!! Who knows what can happen?
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Well
I've followed some of this and I simply had to leave my 2 cents
I have talked on the phone with my3 for 2.5 years
There are many things you don't know about her
She is well read and articulate. She has a great retention for what she has read. She can repeat it back to you verbatim. She is extremely intelligent from a book read angle......
She is also a chameleon. She will talk to you and tell you one thing. She will turn around and post on HS as a totally different human being. On the phone. She is always, always ruminating over her past, her H's past, her life her family his family........ 2.5 years of the same old song and dance.
She will also spread lies and half trues she heard in your conversations.
As soon as the phone goes silent? She is on HS telling anybody that will listen. How together she is. How fantastic her life is. How she has so much going for her and she is the most confident person in the world.
DON'T FALL FOR HER GAMES!
It's my3 that is stuck!
She had to change her name to abfab to lure people into her drama.
She is a vampire.
This is a great site for people that are hurting and confused. This is a great site to regain your footing. Make sense of things. Plan a move forward. It is a site that is full of compassion and encouragement. THIS IS A GREAT SITE!
However. There are some vampires on here. Some people that will drain you dry and then demand even more from you.
Don't lose your equilibrium over this. Be aware. Even on a "safe" site like HS.
The broken and damaged will set up shop and prey on your situation.
I'm all for every person that has to deal with the madness of an MLC. It is absolute devastation. It is complete destruction of our ideals and our goals in life.... I'm pulling for each and every one of you.
If you learn anything from MLC
Learn to protect yourself.
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I agree with bvFTD and CPL that kids are far better off being protected from their disordered parents. My former BIL told me that once he finally had full custody of his younger daughter, her life improved dramatically. Her GPA recovered, her health improved.
I feel this forum should empower people to make good decisions for their kids. Number one on any MLC forum should be self protection and protection of children. Once you have a divorce, finances secured, home, etc — then it can be time to decide how often you care to see your MLCer and to what extent you want to hear what they have to say.
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Well
I've followed some of this and I simply had to leave my 2 cents
I have talked on the phone with my3 for 2.5 years
There are many things you don't know about her
She is well read and articulate. She has a great retention for what she has read. She can repeat it back to you verbatim. She is extremely intelligent from a book read angle......
She is also a chameleon. She will talk to you and tell you one thing. She will turn around and post on HS as a totally different human being. On the phone. She is always, always ruminating over her past, her H's past, her life her family his family........ 2.5 years of the same old song and dance.
She will also spread lies and half trues she heard in your conversations.
As soon as the phone goes silent? She is on HS telling anybody that will listen. How together she is. How fantastic her life is. How she has so much going for her and she is the most confident person in the world.
DON'T FALL FOR HER GAMES!
It's my3 that is stuck!
She had to change her name to abfab to lure people into her drama.
She is a vampire.
This is a great site for people that are hurting and confused. This is a great site to regain your footing. Make sense of things. Plan a move forward. It is a site that is full of compassion and encouragement. THIS IS A GREAT SITE!
However. There are some vampires on here. Some people that will drain you dry and then demand even more from you.
Don't lose your equilibrium over this. Be aware. Even on a "safe" site like HS.
The broken and damaged will set up shop and prey on your situation.
I'm all for every person that has to deal with the madness of an MLC. It is absolute devastation. It is complete destruction of our ideals and our goals in life.... I'm pulling for each and every one of you.
If you learn anything from MLC
Learn to protect yourself.
Rugged Endurance, it’s been a long time. Still drinking? And trying attacking people on the forum. Haven’t talked to you in peer a year. I’m sure Old Pilot and Brain miss you. Nice try... I believe you got kicked off the forum for this very reason... I should share some of our emails with the rest of the crew... And you’ve been band as I recall: for life.
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You remember!
Do you remember how much money you took off me?
To answer your question.
Stone sober
Sure you want to antagonize me?
Just for education sake. The word is banned
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Send me your Western Union address. You weren’t duped, you offered to help. Don’t try to slander me. You’re drunk, as always. Who are you going to go after next? Brain is still on the forum, still want to emasculate him and Old Pilot. Or are you just upset that I stopped listening to your drunken calls and texts when it was clear you out of control?
Be a man and call me, if you really want to have this out. Yet again.
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Perhaps this thread should be locked or deleted. I really wanted to contribute to this, but it's just turned into a joke. It's as bonkers as someone going through midlife crisis ::)
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Will do, I apologize to those who were serious about the topic. Closing it now.