Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: UnconditionalLove on October 16, 2014, 01:49:51 PM
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So, I hope I'm doing this right in starting a discussion. As we are standing waiting on our H's or W's are we kidding ourselves thinking everything with the Alienator isn't going well? I would like to hear from others to how long their H/W were with the A. If it was a bad as we want it to or if it lasted and it's going strong? Also, to see if there is a pattern to these affairs as there are to our MLC H/W when we are posting about them. There is so much that is a like and I wanted to see if that is the case with the MLC affair.
I hope I asked that right.
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You will probably get a lot of different answers on this. There probably isn't any one real answer that will tell you what you feel you need to know.
In my case the first OW only lasted a short time--less than a year. She was a sicko who liked to take men from others for an ego boost/new love high and she didn't keep them long before going to the next one. She was married but she even cheated on the ones she was cheating with. So yes, she put him through the wringer and he wasn't that happy. But I think he still pines after her and leaving her did not make him come back to me. He has probably had a few more since her.
I also know of a case where the man stayed married to the OW for 10 years before returning to his wife. Part of it was probably pride/embarrassment, etc. as it turned out he had married a physically abusive woman. So he may not have been happy but he didn't break away for a decade.
The odds/statistics are with you on the affair relationship not lasting. And while there may be averages for how long it will last (2-3 years?) there is still no guarantee that yours will go with the average or that they won't go on to a different relationship. But from many of the stories on here, while the affair may start off happy, it does not remain happy even if the person can't seem to break away. So I don't think we are fooling ourselves as far as that part goes.
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In my case, I can say no that I am not kidding myself - I have first hand knowledge of what the relationship is like and it is not healthy. They have broken up and gotten back together 3 or 4 times now. He has now been with OW on and off for 2 years! I would bet that they are off again around the holidays so that H doesn't have to make excuses for not taking her around the family - he knows that they will not welcome her, tolerate maybe but not welcome her. For the most part, OW is kept a secret and I know that she has a problem with that.
I think the MLCer stays with the OW because they can't see any other options.
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UnconditionalLove, the most important thing to remember is that our spouse is in crisis. This means that they are almost opposite of who they used to be. They are not out there having the same sort of relationships that we had with them pre-crisis.
As HB used to say, opposites attract usually, but in crisis, like attracts like.
So, you have one messed up MLCer attracting an equally messed up Other Person.
Even if they are together a long time, or forever, it is nothing like the relationships that we had, or would want to be in.
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Thanks for sharing your story. I'm sure I will get a lot of different ones. MY H connected with a student 20 years younger than himself and they are working on a research project together. I keep wondering if their connection could me so real because of this project and maybe they will find that they truly are in love. The twist would be...MLC! It still place a factor I guess in how they see each other or how he will see her after awhile. He's MLC is still something he has to walk through and the reason for the PA is because of the MLC. LOL! That doesn't leave I guess with me gone from his life.
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My opinion is that once the infatuation period wears off, they are back to where they started. The daily grind of living with all the real problems.
The infatuation is like a drug that wears off eventually.
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My opinion is that once the infatuation period wears off, they are back to where they started. The daily grind of living with all the real problems.
The infatuation is like a drug that wears off eventually.
MeNow,
I agree with this and I have also thought that it is why they keep breaking up and getting back together again - they are trying to recreate the infatuation. Does that make sense?
Also wanted to add that not all OW are younger - my H is 44, OW is 51.
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Thanks Searching! I think that is going to run right into what KIKKI just said. Like Attract Like as in messed up!
I do see that. OW has a need to push H to help her with her illness. Although he thinks she is independent she's needy. I don't care what he thinks. He's saving her and she needs to be saved. After awhile, I can't see that working. Which would mean unhealthy and it's part of the MLC. Not just a regular Affair if there is such a thing. LOL!
Man, if a few post and I'm already seeing a wealth of information here.
Thanks!
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As HB used to say, opposites attract usually, but in crisis, like attracts like.
So, you have one messed up MLCer attracting an equally messed up Other Person.
That makes perfect sense!
I do see that. OW has a need to push H to help her with her illness. Although he thinks she is independent she's needy. I don't care what he thinks. He's saving her and she needs to be saved.
I got this too - H told me she needed help, that she didn't have anyone, she didn't even have her child with her (all her doing by the way)!
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My opinion is that once the infatuation period wears off, they are back to where they started. The daily grind of living with all the real problems.
The infatuation is like a drug that wears off eventually.
MeNow,
I agree with this and I have also thought that it is why they keep breaking up and getting back together again - they are trying to recreate the infatuation. Does that make sense?
Also wanted to add that not all OW are younger - my H is 44, OW is 51.
Maybe. There could be other reasons as well or they find a new OP and get high again.
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I'm sure there are other reasons. Every story is different and for different reason but I'm guessing as in MLC there are some things scripted per say that seems to happen with the affair that ends most of them. Because many of these men/women didn't show signs of doing this before the MLC and have been completely taken over by it they many of them do, think and say many of the same things. So, their new relationships probably done like that too. I don't know, it's all interesting though.
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My husband had an "affair" for 7 months. ( still stings). Four months while he was still at home. When I discovered her, and confronted him, he "crashed and hit solid rock bottom" within the week. He ended it and never looked back . (as far as I know ). As soon as I knew who it was many many pieces fell together for me. I know her . I know her history, morals , track record etc and she would have been easiest thing to sleep with in history. I was right. HE was in the wrong.. I am not blaming the other women , but she invited him to her bedroom within the 1st hour. Some conquest!. And she has done this in the past..in fact has been sexually suggestive to other men in our family. So, I knew immidiately ..she was nothing. It was more proof he was out of his mind . I am astonished how "little " he actually saw her and that she still managed "to love him with all her heart" (puek) . She has an alcoholic problem , was on probation for assaulting her husband, has 2 of the craziest druggy kids and somehow did not mention that her sister died during affair with my husband. ????. This is affair DOWN in a huge way. She asked him to move in with her, he never did. In my case, as soon as I knew who it was.. it was in some crazy way... amusing. So far out of character it was astounding. I am always always shocked that these women know with 100% certainty that they are with LIARS . If you have an affair with a married man, you are sleeping with a LIAR. Yet, they are in some sort of trance that allows them to believe that he is telling them the truth. How does that happen??. I guess a cheating liar is the best they can get. In my case, that is the truth. The best punishment for him.. would have been to stay with her. It would be a close call to see who was more mental.
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From RCR
But most will not survive. And yet it can take a few years. Sweetheart was back-and-forth with alienator for 3.5 years and that is pretty typical for MLC.
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Yeah, I just don't know much about my H affair. I know her age, I no she has health issue and I think she's book smart, stresses out, and yet needy. Is she a step down from me? I don't know but I'm sure her personity isn't mine. They will have a more quiet time because our life we were always on the go as both H and I were over achievers and stayed busy. I've had traveled most of my life singing in churches and sharing my life with people. We know people all over the world. She isn't going to have that. Their life will be boring to him after awhile. I don't know if that's affair down but I know she ain't me. LOL!
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As we are standing waiting on our H's or W's are we kidding ourselves thinking everything with the Alienator isn't going well? I would like to hear from others to how long their H/W were with the A. If it was a bad as we want it to or if it lasted and it's going strong? Also, to see if there is a pattern to these affairs as there are to our MLC H/W when we are posting about them.
Once the infatuation hormones start to wear off,things do start going downhill because this is a relationship founded on lies,destruction and deceit.It's demise is inevitable.It's like building a new home on ground with quicksand lurking a few feet below the surface.Looks pretty at first and may even have the appearance of being solid….but it's just a matter of time before the house starts shifting and sinking.However,that doesn't mean the MLC'r will pop out of their crisis right then and there because the shine has come off.Some stay because their ego will not allow them to admit mistake.Some move on to yet another affair partner.Some stay due to major emotional blackmail.The crisis will take as long as it will take.
In my W's case it started as an emotional affair…that period lasted almost a year followed by the physical affair which lasted around 14 months.So about 2 years total from beginning to affair end.
Read up on RCR's articles on affair dynamics and personality disorders.Its very enlightening material.I think that the majority,if not all,of OW/OM types have some level of PD going on.As we all know,healthy,happy and balanced people do not knowingly prey on married people.It's a sick,ego game to them under the guise of "you can't help who you fall in LUV with".These types do not know the real meaning of love,little own unconditional love.
"Be careful home wreckers, go ahead and mess with someone else's man knowingly. One day your most treasured relationship will be ruined in the same way. Karma!"-Nishan Panwar
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Yeah, I just don't know much about my H affair. I know her age, I no she has health issue and I think she's book smart, stresses out, and yet needy. Is she a step down from me? I don't know but I'm sure her personity isn't mine. They will have a more quiet time because our life we were always on the go as both H and I were over achievers and stayed busy. I've had traveled most of my life singing in churches and sharing my life with people. We know people all over the world. She isn't going to have that. Their life will be boring to him after awhile. I don't know if that's affair down but I know she ain't me. LOL!
From RCR's article Affairing Down
Some of you will dismiss the Affair Down scenario when you learn the alienator is an MBA and has a higher paying job than you or your MLCer. Pond Scum is not an intelligence rating or indicative of educational or career level. A Rocket Scientist employed by NASA can be pond scum; intelligence, educational level or career status are irrelevant. Pond Scum is about mental and emotional instability. Some people compartmentalize well and are brilliant in their professional lives while being unable to maintain a healthy relationship. A caring kindergarten teacher can be an alienator. Emotional and mental instability knows no socio-economic or cultural bounds.
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attaching
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Thank you Don't Give UP! Great infomation there. I know I have read it before but I completely forget it over time.
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Lasting and being bad aren't mutually exclusive. Mr J OW1 lasted 18 months on the open. OW2 has been in place for more than 6 years. He is always drunk and clubbing. Sounds like a blissful relationship to me. Not. ;D
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Also wanted to add that not all OW are younger - my H is 44, OW is 51.
H is 52, OW is 66!!! Lol
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My STBXW and I were together for almost 27 years, bomb drop ILYBINILWY April 6, 2013, divorce will be final a week from today. In my case as many of yours, the OM is the complete opposite from me and my W is the complete opposite of who she used to be. I'm a yoga instructor and weight lifter with an athletic build. I stand tall, look people in the eye and am very outgoing. OM has a beer belly, walks pigeon toed with shoulders hunched forward and stares at the ground. I have a full head of thick curley shoulder length hair which she always loved. OM has a crew cut with a giant bald spot in the back. I'm clean shaven, again something she always loved. OM has a REALLY bad mustache, she used to HATE mustaches. I don't drink but OM has a drinking problem, she used to be against drinking but now they sit in the bars. She used to hate hunting and guns, now she shoots just about anything that moves. OM is into bow hunting and the like. She most definitely found someone with no self esteem who she could control. She still won't admit that she's been seeing anyone, but she's been seen around town including once by me. I think for most of us, once we see and hear about what our spouses left us for, we should be relieved that it really wasn't us and this is MOST DEFINITELY a MLC affair down.
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Do any of you know your H/W AP of are they just a random? I do not have a definite confirmation of an A but fairly sure my H is seeing a coworker.
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Do any of you know your H/W AP of are they just a random? I do not have a definite confirmation of an A but fairly sure my H is seeing a coworker.
In my opinion, it's usually who takes a interest in them first.
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My wife's current OM is a coworker, but she's been with anyone who takes an interest.
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After seeing my H 50 18 yo OW I know he's messed up. My S18 wouldn't be caught looking at her. He now talks and acts like a teen.
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I think my H was? with the OW on/off for almost 2 years. He's 41 she's 26. He's told me that he uses her to isolate himself from everyone, that she could be anyone, just a distraction from his depression. When I asked him recently if he wanted to be with her he scowled with disgust and said no...but didn't think there was anything wrong with making out with her while hoping we get back together one day...HUH??? I don't know how to compare her to myself as she's a tiny Asian girl and I'm a regular Caucasian. The only similarity between us that I can tell is that everyone tells me how nice I am, and that is how he describes her.
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Do any of you know your H/W AP of are they just a random? I do not have a definite confirmation of an A but fairly sure my H is seeing a coworker.
In my opinion, it's usually who takes a interest in them first.
I would agree with that. I asked H why her, he said 'because she was willing' :o
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UnconditionalLove, I will add my story, the short version, for your discussion thread.
My xH's love affair was started by him, not by her directly. The OW is xH's old high school GF from 1976-77...she broke it off after my H went into the army and married another HS guy shortly thereafter. That M lasted 3 years or so and she has been single since then and has no children...totally available. They are both 56 years old now, I am 58 yo. H and I met in early 1993 and married in mid 1994. He had no contact with her for all that time in-between and didn't want to as she had broken his heart in 1977.
In Jan. 2010, the OW came to town (from south US to north US) to visit her father in the hospital and stopped by H's parents house for a visit and said to tell Mr. OL that she said hello. His sis did tell him this info; his mother said that she would not. A few weeks later, H found her info thru the internet and called her on Valentine's Day for a 10 minute conversation on his way home from work. I looked at the phone calls a few months later and found this out. During that time the phone calls were 3 or 4 hours per day as well as ipod texting while he was home. 4 weeks after the start of the EA and never seeing her yet, he asked for a divorce while prancing around the kitchen ...very unusual for him to be acting like that or talking about a D. 4 weeks after that he filed for the D without me knowing it, 2.5 months later he left our home after the intimacy had increased from Zero to full-on (his idea, I was very confused by this), and 3 years later the D was final, including 1 year for the state supreme court appeal which H filed for. The OW moved here 2 months after H moved out but to a different town than he or I...her plan all along I think.
I don't know much about their R but 6 months after he left, he said that they would never live together....I guess there was a problem there...or so it seemed that day. I know there were a few times when they were fighting and he was the one to call and reconnect (emotionally needy). I have seen emails where she was telling him what to do during the D and with our taxes...and it was not good news for me. MLCer's cannot think straight and they do what the OW tells them to do. After ~4.75 years, they have never lived together, but she is still the OW.
My S15, now S18, lived with him for 3.5 years until 1 month ago when he went off to tech school a few states away. He told me that xH threw her out of the house and his parents house on 2 occasions as OW and S18 do not get alone at all and were fighting. xH's family was very surprised at that! (Yes, his family has believed all of his lies and half truths about his terrible wifey!) XH moved 2 weeks after S18 left (free now) and I do not know where he went; I do not know for sure if they are living together now or not....my S18 says he doesn't think so. I do know (from S18) that he has moved to a part of the state that he would never go to before to be closer to OW's place. So, now that he is free of any responsibility to his family, we will see what happens. I think he has been in Limbo for 3.5 years while S was living with him, although he went to OW's place every weekend and left S to fend for himself. Last summer I got an email from xH stating that he wanted to 'get past our recent history' but he has said nothing else since that time....maybe he forgot. LOL He does not talk to me and has been that way for many years...he will occasionally answer an email but only about S18, nothing about himself. S18 lived with his father for all that time but they never did anything together or hardly spoke...only about cars at S18's probing. OW was his complete distraction from life and family. I do not know which one of them is more manipulative, xH or OW but, I do not see it as a very healthy relationship...just a needy one on both parts. I think that the infatuation has worn off but xH has done much harm and I do not believe that he knows how to or wants to fix anything; narcissists do not apologize for their mistakes...as they have none!! He is still very lost after all this time! He was withdrawn from S and I for many years before he called the OW...early Separation and low-level depression I suppose.
Well, that is the short story. I don't know if it answered any of your Q's or not but I don't think all is swell in MLC land!
And, YES....she was the first one to come along and pay him any attention. I believe that he would still be home if she had told him, a married man, to go away....but, she told him that leaving him was the worse mistake of her life and that he should divorce his wife to be with her....so he did!!!
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Yeah, maybe my H is seeing things that way as in she was willing but I don't know. He's willing to move 18 hours from where he lives to be with her. He's all in. I can't amagine doing that just for anyone simply because she is willing but maybe. Maybe it's about running from his depression. I'm sure that is playing a part. One thing I do know, he wants far away from me right now. Now waivering with him on that.
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UnconditionalLove, mine moved two states away to live with the OW, even after saying he was with her only because "he felt so alone." Assured me many times it wasn't what I thought. Was still non-committal about it at our divorce hearing even with the papers in his hand, and after a year of being very public with the relationship. It was very volatile early on, with damage to his vehicle, broken ribs, and a swollen lip (he actually told me that he'd accidentally punched himself in the face - it's like he wasn't even trying to lie well!), all I believe caused by the OW or in some way related to her. She had an angry husband she kicked out, too, so the hostility was fuel for their fire. No clue where it's at now. I've seen recent pictures and she's changed a lot (probably doubled her weight), so I don't guess things are great. And she is in the category of slightly older. At BD he was 39 and she was 44.
I could describe her very apparent affair-down qualities, but my late friend who met the OW always had the magic words: "R2T, she's not like you." And that's really all there is to it. There's so much more to reconciliation and healing from MLC than just this relationship ending, why waste time comparing. It will end when it ends (and more than likely, it will end), but we have to keep living in the meantime without our lives depending on that. This will forever change who we are and we can proactively make that a good thing, despite these people. No kidding there! ;)
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Yeah, they seem to stoop to people at their same emotional level. Looks, etc. don't seem to matter too much.
If it helps any and brings a bit of humor to the situation, I remember when my W broke up with OM1. She was with OM1 the whole time, but cheated on him with many OM. OM1 was the last one she had before she came running back. At this point, she had been moved out for a few months, I served her with D papers, etc. I was ready for a new life.
Anyhow, about a month prior to when my W came running back, I met a woman (recently divorced) at one of my friend's joint bachelor/bachelorette parties. She pretty much attached to me the entire night. I told her everything and was honest about my situation, but I felt "single" I guess. She was gorgeous, and seemed to like all the same things I did and was infatuated with me - after being treated like crap for so long, having a person be that into me was a major relief. She was like a female version of myself. We hit it off needless to say, but she lived out of state, so it didn't and wasn't going to work out. But she flew up a few weeks later just to hang out with me. We decided to go dancing at a bar with a live band and ran into OM1, who was balling his eyes out that my W dumped him. The woman that came to see me laughed and said, "she left you for him?!?". I got quite the ego boost from that.
Then he saw me...he made eye contact, and I just gave him the most evil smirk I've ever given. He left not long afterwards with tears in his eyes. lol. I think he thought I was going to beat him up or something too, but I just let karma do its dirty work.
Literally, 2-3 weeks later, W came running back. It is like she sensed my heart straying. I will admit, I was infatuated with this OW, so maybe I was starting a bit of MLC myself. Or it was just the ego boost of being treated like a human again...I don't know. But I still get a kick out of seeing that POS OM crying his eyes out. :)
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Thanks for sharing your stories. There is so much that is a like and yet different. I do agree with the idea that MLCer's run to the nearist person. It's their first opportunity to act out and break away I think. What I like about reading these life stories is I can clearly see the situation where I'm not so clear on my situation and how my H see's things. But your stories are helping me a lot to see things. Pick out something here and there that gives me some hope and see some patterns.
One thing I am learning is MLC affairs are not built on any foundation and either the MLCer or the Alienators is going to mess the relationship up at some point. One of them is going to wake up and see what is truly going on. I know for me this road is something my H has to follow to move forward. Some of what you wrote will be great information to go back on and read.
Thank you
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Re read through the thread. So much information. Glad I posted this it is really helpful. I'm going to keep coming back to check this out so I can memorize it. LOL!
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Do any of you know your H/W AP of are they just a random? I do not have a definite confirmation of an A but fairly sure my H is seeing a coworker.
In my opinion, it's usually who takes a interest in them first.
I'm going to be the devil's advocate for a moment just b/c it's something that is always simmering in the back of my mind.
Menow- your affair partner was a long lost love. There must have been something special about her. Yes, the timing was right (or wrong, depending how you want to look at it) but if you were both truly single, do you think this could have been a relationship that would have worked?
What I'm saying is- maybe we are focusing on the bad stuff b/c it's what we want to see. We want them to be wrong, we want them to come back. They won't come back if they are happy so we tell ourselves that they must be miserable but something else is stopping them from coming back to us.
I keep bashing the girl, saying she can't compare to me. However, he did choose her over me. There must be something special about her for him to do this. It was his choice, nobody forced him. He choose to destroy his reputation, his integrity, his family, his finances, to be with her instead of me. There must be something about her that he likes. Is it possible that she is a good person with good qualities in a bad situation? Is it possible that she truly loves my husband? Is is possible that he truly loves her and just "fell out of love" with me?
I keep saying how my husband is such an idiot. Maybe I'm the idiot.
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Thank you Nah for the honest post! This is exactly what I want to see. I wonder the same thing in my situation. Along with is it possible that my husband hasn't loved me for a long time and stay out of convenient and then along came this A and it opened the down for him to leave me and never look back.
I do know he's in MLC and he's doing a lot of bad stuff because of MLC. MLC is getting him the courage t say and do things he would have never said. The one thing I keep reminding myself is he isn't thinking right. Just like you said my H is on the path of destroying is professional career, losing all his friends, destroying his finances and his reputation. No one in their right mind would do all that. But I still wonder if I'm just wanting to think this relationship has no hope or if it really do have hope and they will live happy ever after.
The one thing I have been holding on to is knowledge and scripture. God isn't going to bless this marriage, it's not built on the right foundation. Knowledge from what I read says, MLC affair aren't about love and relationships but what he/she feels and few last.
Very interesting! Very In Ter Est Ing!
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There is something else that has been bothering me.
When husband and I met, I was 17 and he was 19. It was the 80's, he was in a band with wild hair and clothes, living in a dump, on drugs, etc. I was preppy, spoiled, was in the "popular" group. I quit college before I started and moved in with him.
EVERYBODY, my friends and family, his band friends, they all thought we were crazy. We didn't care, we were so in love. It was us against the world.
We worked our @sses off, we had two kids, successful careers, houses, vacations, accumulated a healthy nest egg. We became the dream couple. Kids played sports, he coached. Girl scouts, school, I was the cookie mom, PTA leader, etc...,
We proved everybody wrong.
Now its them against the world. Right? What's the difference? He must be thinking, he can do it again. Prove everybody wrong, including me. :-[
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Good points, nah. I guess some of these MLCers do find someone who they can stay with and maybe even be happy with. Probably not the norm, though. Mostly I see one mess finding another mess.
I'm not sure who said "they find someone willing" but I truly believe that.
In the beginning my X looked at some dating sites. First off he went for the younger, good looking women. When he got no responses he lowered himself to women who weren't much younger and weren't that great looking. Still got no responses but it wasn't anything in-particular he was looking for, just anyone who would respond.
Same with his flirting. When he started that, he flirted with everyone. Old, young, fit, fat...didn't matter. It was just attention he wanted. I think he would have dated anyone.
He no longer does that, but looking back it could have been just anyone he would have gotten involved with. He was hungry for attention from someone new. Anyone new.
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I wish I could figure all this out. I know I shouldn't be spending time on it. My H has never done anything like this before. When he flipped to MLC everything about him changed. I don't feel like he set up to look for someone I just think she was there, he was in MLC, it fed his ego and off they went. I do feel like he did the whole Knight in Shining armor thing and she needed him to do that. I think it's going to be if not already dyfunctional. But it's hard to take myself out of all this. I know it's MLC but then I start buying into the fact that something is wrong with me. I look back over our life and see patterns now. I took care of everything. He so disrespecting me and so unappreciative of what I have done over the years and now you want to find fault with me, become cocky because you have yourself a 32 year who isn't going to get you out of a can a bean? Now, I feel like I have a kid who needs to learn to survive on his own because I protected him to much only to have him leave home and find fault with me. I wonder how long those thoughts have been going on in his little brain world.
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Unconditional,
I think we all wonder that. It makes me sick to think my H was feeling like this long before he made his move.
I thought he was just tired and quiet from working so much, but no..here he was sizing me up and finding things to blame me for. Had I only known.
All I know is it was a huge shock when he finally told me he wasn't happy in our marriage anymore. But the thought that he was feeling this way for some time almost makes me mad. How can you defend yourself when you didn't know anything was wrong?
I know this is a crisis and it makes no sense but do any of them sit you down and tell you they are unhappy and we need to work on this marriage. Give us some clue. Some time to adjust to it? Nope, they just make up their minds and off they go leaving us stunned.
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My h OW had an a alcoholic h that took off on her and kids a few months before I found out about the 2 of them. I kicked him out and he went to his sisters ...she kicked him out and he moved right in with OW!
He rescued her and her kids....and she was available, broken and willing!!
He still says...if not for her I would be in the streets!! PLEASE..I've told him, no you would of been home with your family!
My h claims he can't afford to live on his own- maybe they will last?? I do know he's in an MLC so I'm not going to doubt the process
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Well, we aren't talking about a person who is thinking properly. I think we have to remember just because they say they have been thinking this way a long time doesn't mean they have been or if they have been it's because they started the MLC journey. You can see the patterns. They don't want out of the marriage usually till they have a reason to be out and that is the OW/OM. They get a high from that and it's all they can think about I believe. They don't want to work anything out because they want that other person. They blame you for everything because they have to so they can run from their guilt and they blame you for everything because they really believe that but later I'm told when you are gone they realize they are still running from something and it's not you.
So, even though I question so much I also see where my H is with his MLC even though I sometimes question me nd my part in that.
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UL,
I'm so glad you started this thread because I struggle with the same questions. The OM is such an affair down that I can't believe W could be happy with him but who knows? I'm less than 4 months into this and I'm having a hard time finding the strength and hope to go on. But here's what I know.
W really wasn't enthusiastic about going with this guy. She expressed reservations to me, her sister, and my stepmother. Yet she moved in with him and has been living with him for 3 months now.
She told me she hadn't been happy for years and had been looking for a way out of our marriage. Yet she couldn't give me a good reason for having been unhappy and friends and family say they don't believe it. They thought we were both deeply in love.
I go back and look at our photos and videos and I can see that she's happy and in the videos I can see that she loves me. And I can see her start to change 12 to 18 months ago when she began losing weight and dressing more attractively. And looking at pictures from last fall I can see the depression settling in. And I know she was seriously depressed late winter, early spring when her A began because she expressed her concern to me that she didn't know what has happening but that she was tired all of the time and didn't feel like doing any of the things she has always enjoyed.
I know that we started dating just after she turned 16 and I was the first boy her mother would let her seriously date. And I know she fell "in love" with me and it lasted for 36 years. So I think when she was depressed and felt she had fallen "in love" with OM she had no basis for believing it wasn't real love and it wouldn't last.
She doesn't seem happy now. I think she's drinking a lot, whereas with me she only drank occasionally. She's stopped by our house a couple of times recently when I wasn't home and each time when she left one of my wine coolers was missing and there was a fresh empty in the recyclables. And a month ago she heard my D's boyfriend was looking for an evening short order cook and she told D she could do that. When my D said sure, you're going to work all day and then spend your evening working at the restaurant, W said why not, she didn't have anything better to do.
W has always been a country music fan. My granddaughter said lately she's been playing a boy band song called Amnesia over and over. She said it's her favorite song. Here are some of the lyrics.
Sometimes I start to wonder, was it just a lie?
If what we had was real, how could you be fine?
'Cause I'm not fine at all
...
The pictures that you sent me they're still living in my phone
I'll admit I like to see them, I'll admit I feel alone
And all my friends keep asking why I'm not around
It hurts to know you're happy, yeah, it hurts that you've moved on
It's hard to hear your name when I haven't seen you in so long
It's like we never happened, was it just a lie?
If what we had was real, how could you be fine?
'Cause I'm not fine at all
...
If today I woke up with you right beside me
Like all of this was just some twisted dream
I'd hold you closer than I ever did before
And you'd never slip away
...
I wish that I could wake up with amnesia
And forget about the stupid little things
Like the way it felt to fall asleep next to you
And the memories I never can escape
'Cause I'm not fine at all
No, I'm really not fine at all
Tell me this is just a dream
'Cause I'm really not fine at all
Still, I don't know. All that I know is that my W has changed, she's living with someone else, and I miss her every minute of every day and it's getting harder to find reasons to hope. And I don't know if I can make it through 2 to 7 years of this but I'm not interested in being with anyone else. I pray daily for all of us.
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I have not read all the replies, so I might be repeating what has already been said...
I am very early on in my Ws replay stages, so its way too soon to even really give this much thought, but one way to look at it, is yes the OM/OW may be your spouses 1st choice in their current state of mind, but do you honestly think they would be their first choice after they leave the tunnel?
Or you can look at it this way...your spouse prior to MLC is your obvious first choice...But in their current state of mind are they still your first choice? In my case, I LOVE who my wife was; I do not even like who she IS NOW, but once she leaves the tunnel, I could easily go back to loving her again.
-Terrified
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Good point, Terrified. Right now my wife acts often acts like a spoiled teenager, even pre-teen at times. Yet, I still love and miss the person she once was and occasionally I think I see glimpses of that person.
Ironically, one of the things I loved about my wife was the almost childlike joy she often exhibited when presented with new things and new experiences and I hope that, in the process of growing up, she doesn't lose that.
-MBIB
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However, he did choose her over me.
I know that the OW is the worse part of all this and we have a very hard time getting our heads around it but he did not choose her over you.
Very early on I was able to talk to my H about things and I asked a lot of difficult questions. One of those questions was 'How can you leave me for her?' he said 'I am not leaving you for her - I am leaving you for ME'. I really believe this and I am sure that this is the primary reason that I have never given OW much head space - it has nothing to do with the OW.
He rescued her and her kids....and she was available, broken and willing!!
This is why they find an OW! The MLCer is projecting - they don't know that they have to fix themselves - they think that if they fix someone else they will feel better. The MLCer is broken, the LBS is not - they MLCer cannot project himself onto the LBS any more because they need to look within but they don't realize that for a very long time.
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last night my h told me he woke up from sleeping and decided to come home and gave me a detailed plan about it. not even 12 hours later he is telling me now he is never coming back and truthfully wants to be with ow and doesn't want to ever come back. so yeah. i just told him well that's your choice, you're and adult and make your own decisions and left it at that, i am not even upset about it because i didn't believe him in the first place.
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Very early on I was able to talk to my H about things and I asked a lot of difficult questions. One of those questions was 'How can you leave me for her?' he said 'I am not leaving you for her - I am leaving you for ME'.
This is why they find an OW! The MLCer is projecting - they don't know that they have to fix themselves - they think that if they fix someone else they will feel better. The MLCer is broken, the LBS is not - they MLCer cannot project himself onto the LBS any more because they need to look within but they don't realize that for a very long time.
It still hurts, whether W left me for OM or for herself, but believing it was for her, not OM, helps me to maintain some hope that the A will eventually end.
The part about projecting makes sense. I'd never considered this. Thank you. Maybe I should show my W that I am broken too, then she could come back and project onto me again. ;D ;D
Yes, I know it doesn't work that way because she won't need the OM once she realizes the projection is not working and the problem is with her. I just worry that she will never reach the point where she realizes that and begins the hard work of fixing herself.
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My friend had a crisis and ran away from her husband and child. She was gone for over two years. In that time, she had a few flings and then found her "soul mate". She gushed about him. She honestly thought he was the ONE. She had such a connection with him and he was all that. It lasted for almost 2 years. I am not sure why it ended. I am not sure how either. This guy did not know the truth about what she was doing. She was not honest with him. He honestly thought she was almost divorced and in the clear. He was a nice guy who was lonely. Her and him had a nice time together. No drama between them. To all outsiders, it would have looked like a great relationship.
But once she came out of her fog and started moving towards being herself again, she is shocked by how she honestly thought he was the one. She sees him now as a total affair down. They had nothing in common. He was just a way to avoid and to fill the missing of her husband. The OM came to see her the other day in hopes that they could rekindle and she had coffee with him. She can't figure out what she ever saw in him. She is embarassed that she thought he was her soul mate, the one she waited her whole life for. That she threw away her marriage for him. All she said is that he is a nice guy and she is stunned by how blind she was to reality back then.
Something to think about....
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Well my life has two sides. I was in crisis and had an affair in 2004. He was someone I worked with,had stuff in common dont you know! He was 31 I was 38. He was going through a so called divorce. He hit on me at work and I was going through a bad time in life. All I needed was the flirting and to feel good again and thats what started it all. Mine was short lived only a few months. He broke it off and then my husband found out. Later I heard some things about him that werent so nice,but what does that matter he chased after a married woman and he knew it.
Then with my husband. Before we married he hooked up with his ex high school girlfriend. We were 21 and 23 at the time. Then he went into full blown crisis blaming my affair situation for his leaving. We also divorced 7 months before he left. It was suppose to be for financial reasons but thats a whole different story. We divorced in March of 2012 and a few months later I found out he friended his ex once again on facebook! When I confronted him about it he gave me some spiel about me being on there and that he didnt know I was on there. I was hiding it so he said and trying to hook up with people. Um no! That was him. October 2012 he left and kept her a secret. They were just friends at first texting. Then I caught them the following october ,in his camper home. December he started coming back around the house again. Twice he has come right out and told me nothing happened and I think thats because I saw them together and he has other issues too. Now he's home. As far as I know shes gone. She was some piece of work too.
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I am having a really rough time in the last couple of weeks because I realized that my H is definitely planning to leave to be with OW. OW, H and I are currently in 3 different countries. Last time I saw H a couple of weeks ago, H just looks through me. The worst is, H won't come clean; H is trying to stage manage his way through a visit at Thanksgiving/my birthday so that he looks like a "good guy."
H has always been "protective" of OW because H said he told OW that H was getting divorced when they started their A. (Never told me that.). Since H met OW during an overseas job assignment in OW's country, OW wouldn't necessarily have known. However, once H came home - H didn't even tell OW he was leaving her country- OW knew, and OW did not run away. OW came at H with the emotional blackmail. H then took another overseas job and OW ended up with a lot of our money and foreign trips out of this deal.
It appears OW has always given H attention and praised him, whereas I became angry and upset with H on occasion when I found this out. My IC said it would not have been normal to accept finding out about the extent of H's betrayal without becoming angry. The only good thing to come out of this is that I have recently developed a calm way of dealing with H.
I realized that OW may, to most people, be a nice, pretty woman who loves H. OW thinks I forfeited my rights to H, so she believes she is not in the wrong. In recent years, I may have taken H for granted a bit, but I worked very hard and H and his kids got the benefit. The worst is, when H has wanted another chance, I have given it to him, but H will not do the same for me. Yet H won't admit that he has a plan to go.
Most bizarre is that I am now being cast as the OW in their relationship. I can tell that after fighting with me in July, H made some kind of commitment to OW in August, but then met up with me in Oct., telling OW it was a pre-arranged trip for other reasons. Then H went to see OW. And now H calls me and talks about his Thanksgiving trip home in a very sexual way. I doubt OW would want to hear that. Little does H know that there will be no sex for him from me anymore.
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I read everyone's stories on here and I just can't believe how screwed up these MLCers can become. I'm not sure I'd believe any of you if I hadn't seen my own W go from being someone everyone loved and respected to becoming a woman that we barely recognize. My D's friend asked her recently if I would take W back if she ever "got her head out of her butt". I believe that about sums it up. And when she saw the OM her comment was "Ewww. She left your dad for that?" ;D ;D ;D
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I know this is a crisis and it makes no sense but do any of them sit you down and tell you they are unhappy and we need to work on this marriage. Give us some clue. Some time to adjust to it? Nope, they just make up their minds and off they go leaving us stunned.
I guess thats what makes this not a "normal divorce". After 28+ really good years (he admits this too), the first sentence of BD was, "you know this was not a good year". First, no I did not know, second- one bad year after 28+ really good years and you just leave? Who does this? Then, people just shrug their shoulders and say, "i guess it was't meant to be". Huh? ?? Is this normal??
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Do any of you know your H/W AP of are they just a random? I do not have a definite confirmation of an A but fairly sure my H is seeing a coworker.
In my opinion, it's usually who takes a interest in them first.
I'm going to be the devil's advocate for a moment just b/c it's something that is always simmering in the back of my mind.
Menow- your affair partner was a long lost love. There must have been something special about her. Yes, the timing was right (or wrong, depending how you want to look at it) but if you were both truly single, do you think this could have been a relationship that would have worked?
What I'm saying is- maybe we are focusing on the bad stuff b/c it's what we want to see. We want them to be wrong, we want them to come back. They won't come back if they are happy so we tell ourselves that they must be miserable but something else is stopping them from coming back to us.
I keep bashing the girl, saying she can't compare to me. However, he did choose her over me. There must be something special about her for him to do this. It was his choice, nobody forced him. He choose to destroy his reputation, his integrity, his family, his finances, to be with her instead of me. There must be something about her that he likes. Is it possible that she is a good person with good qualities in a bad situation? Is it possible that she truly loves my husband? Is is possible that he truly loves her and just "fell out of love" with me?
I keep saying how my husband is such an idiot. Maybe I'm the idiot.
Hello nah,
Sorry I didn't see this question. I think I'm stretched out on so many threads I miss things.
Anyway, good question. Your questions are very pointed, direct and get to the heart of the matter. I like that about you.
My affair partner was and is a special person. Was that enough? No. My years with my W and my family were all still a part of me. It CANNOT be erased. It can buried, distracted from, but in the stillness of the night, when it's just me and my thoughts, I cannot escape that. Your spouses cannot either.
If I were truly single and her as well, I would have tried to make it work. I'm pretty sure we would have had problems though because my issues would have caused them. But I also know there would have been long term problems if we stayed in the affair because of the way it happened. Committing adultery and causing my kids pain would always be lingering.
I cannot say if your H is happy with OW. You would know better than anyone when you see him. Is he happy, vibrant, beaming with life? Or is he angry, lifeless, bitter, lost? If so, then he's not as happy as you think.
Your H seems to want to capture some of his youth. He acts like a rebellious teenager. I don't know the OW but it's just not a good thing to start a relationship with someone through cheating. It won't last. It won't truly be good like it is when two people start with a clean slate.
So don't compare yourself to her. Not even close. I've never met you but I can tell you are an amazing person. Fun, smart, loving, tempestuous, attractive, classy, real - with much to offer.
So all of you, stop it. It's not you. Your spouses are crazy people. I say this from first hand experience. Crazy people.
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I have yet to read all the posts on this thread but I do think it is helpful when we see how similar many of our stories are. I know there are different kinds of alienators, I agree with many of you that the alienator is the most difficult part of this whole mess. That said, I have not yet had to manage much in the way of a nasty monster, he only peaks out occasionally when my H is cornered in a lie.
I recognize that the alienator is only a symptom of the dis-ease, my h has said repeatedly that it is not about her or me but him, that he needs to grow, and that he hopes he grows up soon, that he is chasing youth and afraid of aging, that she will never understand him as I do and that he knows a relationship with her is hopeless. In the beginning he was less open about these details, but when I first found out about the affair, and some of the similarities between me and the alienator, h said placed side by side you would win on most every front.
The alienator in my situation stacks up like this -
A - same birthday as me, only 12 years younger meaning same Chinese astrology too
A - like me, passionate animal lover
A - like me, very involved in the arts, including teaching undergrad courses in art right after grad school
A - like me, learned to rock climb at 23 and became very involved briefly
A - like me, extremely interested in gardening and plants
A - like me, loves books and reading
A - like me, very interested in analog technology particularly photography
A - like me, when I was her age and met my H, I did not like or trust men, then I fell for H and learned to trust
A - very similar family dynamic to mine, including a sweet but dopy younger brother who lives in San Diego
A - nose stud of the exact same type as mine (only I have two)
A - same color hair, eyes, and skin tone, similar body types (she is much shorter though), we both wear glasses part-time and have a pair that is nearly identical, our eyes are a very similar shape, when I have seen pictures of her mother, she looks almost exactly like my aunt who looks just like me
A - similar choice of attire to what I wore at her age
A - like me, very interested in music, drawing, and creation generally
A - like me, loves good food and cooking
A - like me, a little on the shy side
One thing that is very different between me and the alienator, is that she seems much more conventional in every way. It is like she is a less intense version of me. She is just a little less curvy, just a little less off the wall, just a little less self reliant, just a little less creative, less moles, less volume to her hair, less moral judgement, less consideration for another woman, just a little less, just a little less. She does have youth on her side, and her skin is less flawed, her face is less intense and more conventionally pretty.
One thing that seemed to lure in my H who felt out of control of his life, since 'I was making all the decisions about us, and his career was not going well,' and he felt like 'a second class citizen,' 'not validated in our relationship,' was her need to be saved from male abuse. She was being sexually harassed by a co-worker and was raped by a taxi-cab driver in the past. H really stepped up to the plate and became knight
That is the disgusting reality of my life.
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Oh one more disgusting tid-bit - my H chose to 'court' on a very similar timeline including time of year. Meaning they slept together after about the same amount of time as 'friends' and it might have even been the same day in the year :P
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So all of you, stop it. It's not you. Your spouses are crazy people. I say this from first hand experience. Crazy people.
Thank you, MeNow.
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WOW, Sorry all, I was with friends today and then I came back and all these post. I read through them but I need to read them again. So much information here.
But one thing that made me chuckle and seems to really be the theme is
So all of you, stop IT. It's not you. Your spouses are crazy people. I say this from first hand experieince. Crazy people. LOL! I love that! It's so true! Sad but true. I'm praying H crazy goes away!
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Ok, I'm sure no one will really have this answer but I'm putting it out there as a fear I have.
H left last week and has been with EA turn PA I'm guessing for the last 9 day. He will be coming back sometime in the next few days and I'm fearful of what they both have been cooking up against me. As in the list of stuff she's wanting him to do to keep moving forward on our divorce. Mood wise...what am I to expect? Obviously, I'm guessing he's had a pretty awsome time with her. It's one of two times he has spend long time with her. I'm so nervious for his return. It's been peaceful and now I'm stressed that he's mood is going to be whacked out. He's not going to be coming back wanting anything to do with me I'm sure.
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It won't truly be good like it is when two people start with a clean slate.
True. But if LBS and MLCer reconcile there is no clean slate. So, how can it really be any good? There will always be a huge imbalance between both parts.
I'm just being devil's advocate here, some of the people on this board who reconcile are quite happy.
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It won't truly be good like it is when two people start with a clean slate.
True. But if LBS and MLCer reconcile there is no clean slate. So, how can it really be any good? There will always be a huge imbalance between both parts.
I'm just being devil's advocate here, some of the people on this board who reconcile are quite happy.
It is wiped clean by forgiveness, earning trust, hard work, perserverance, a deeper rebuilt love. I've read that rebuilding is harder and takes more patience than when the ordeal started. It takes two and they both have to be committed. I also believe this is what God intended for marriages. Just my thoughts.
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True. But if LBS and MLCer reconcile there is no clean slate. So, how can it really be any good? There will always be a huge imbalance between both parts.
But it seems that in almost every case I've read on here the lbs and mlcer will be rebuilding on the foundation of a long and mostly happy marriage and that the mlc was an aberration due to the mlcer's crisis. And they will also be building on an lbs who loved the mlcer so much they were willing to stand while going through he!!. And an mlcer who hopefully has come out of the fog and is truly remorseful and dismayed at the damage they have done.
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Ok, I'm sure no one will really have this answer but I'm putting it out there as a fear I have.
H left last week and has been with EA turn PA I'm guessing for the last 9 day. He will be coming back sometime in the next few days and I'm fearful of what they both have been cooking up against me. As in the list of stuff she's wanting him to do to keep moving forward on our divorce. Mood wise...what am I to expect? Obviously, I'm guessing he's had a pretty awsome time with her. It's one of two times he has spend long time with her. I'm so nervious for his return. It's been peaceful and now I'm stressed that he's mood is going to be whacked out. He's not going to be coming back wanting anything to do with me I'm sure.
UL,
Your sitch is a difficult one. I think the main fear you have has to do with what you are expecting.
What are you expecting? He's been off with OW, now coming home will hurt you.
I'm not sure all the details of your sitch about why that is. I guess I need more info on your "strategy" as to why H is coming and going as he pleases.
The good news is that you can prepare yourself accordingly. Have no expectations, treat him kindly, and focus on doing things for yourself. Remember about your power. Don't give it to him.
Best to you
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It won't truly be good like it is when two people start with a clean slate.
True. But if LBS and MLCer reconcile there is no clean slate. So, how can it really be any good? There will always be a huge imbalance between both parts.
I'm just being devil's advocate here, some of the people on this board who reconcile are quite happy.
It is wiped clean by forgiveness, earning trust, hard work, perserverance, a deeper rebuilt love. I've read that rebuilding is harder and takes more patience than when the ordeal started. It takes two and they both have to be committed. I also believe this is what God intended for marriages. Just my thoughts.
Quoted for truth. I look at it this way. If the mlcer didn't go on their "journey", problems would exist in the marriage as a result. This would have a negative impact on what would be the lbs. In order for the marriage to survive and be healthy, the crisis has to happen. It is a difficult road, but I believe it is God's way to get us to change for the better. He works in mysterious ways.
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If both can just come together, the lessons learned could make the marriage better than it ever was.
If.
There are several examples of that on this forum.
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I recognize that the alienator is only a symptom of the dis-ease, my h has said repeatedly that it is not about her or me but him, that he needs to grow, and that he hopes he grows up soon, that he is chasing youth and afraid of aging, that she will never understand him as I do and that he knows a relationship with her is hopeless. In the beginning he was less open about these details, but when I first found out about the affair, and some of the similarities between me and the alienator, h said placed side by side you would win on most every front.
The alienator in my situation stacks up like this -
A - same birthday as me, only 12 years younger meaning same Chinese astrology too
A - like me, passionate animal lover
A - like me, very involved in the arts, including teaching undergrad courses in art right after grad school
A - like me, learned to rock climb at 23 and became very involved briefly
A - like me, extremely interested in gardening and plants
A - like me, loves books and reading
A - like me, very interested in analog technology particularly photography
A - like me, when I was her age and met my H, I did not like or trust men, then I fell for H and learned to trust
A - very similar family dynamic to mine, including a sweet but dopy younger brother who lives in San Diego
A - nose stud of the exact same type as mine (only I have two)
A - same color hair, eyes, and skin tone, similar body types (she is much shorter though), we both wear glasses part-time and have a pair that is nearly identical, our eyes are a very similar shape, when I have seen pictures of her mother, she looks almost exactly like my aunt who looks just like me
A - similar choice of attire to what I wore at her age
A - like me, very interested in music, drawing, and creation generally
A - like me, loves good food and cooking
A - like me, a little on the shy side
One thing that is very different between me and the alienator, is that she seems much more conventional in every way. It is like she is a less intense version of me. She is just a little less curvy, just a little less off the wall, just a little less self reliant, just a little less creative, less moles, less volume to her hair, less moral judgement, less consideration for another woman, just a little less, just a little less. She does have youth on her side, and her skin is less flawed, her face is less intense and more conventionally pretty.
My H was married but separated when we met. I was too. We had 26 years together . I realised that contrary to my thinking that OW was a younger version of me - she is actually a younger version of his first wife. There are far more "similarities" between her and OW than there are between me and OW.
Why do this? Because we do and this is part of our growth as well as it is to really learn that this is part of replay. If the MLCer can replay his life with someone who is like the LBS then he won't make the same mistakes!!!! Uh DUH!!!
So drop the need to compare and accept that obsessing over the alienator is our choice as is our choice to not obsess over her/him.
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I understand that we need to stop obsessing but I also do think it is part of the process. Around the time of bomb drop H said that he saw this as a lesson to grow from, and that he learned things from our relationship that he wouldn't repeat in the next one. So that certainly was part of his thinking.
I am doing my best not to obsess but sometimes there needs to e a place to vent the frustration and venting to friends and family is very damaging.
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my h said the same thing AC, but the problems are still there and they happened a lot faster and more frequent. plus he has some more that he never had with me. so just let it happen. it's a process.
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That is one thing that just makes my head spin...prior to wife's departure, she was SO conflicted. Of course I got the "ILYBINILWY" speech, but I could tell there was still love there. She dropped SOOOO many hints that she would "be back" someday. Hell come to find out she told D16 "I don't see myself marrying this guy, I just want to have my fun." Also I distinctly remember a conversation we had that she said since my own little MLC in 2009 things just haven't been the same, and that we should D and get remarried in the future for a "fresh start". Odd.
Then of course after she physically left, all that changed-she expresses absolutely ZERO feelings for me AT ALL now. Just bizarre. But then again, she is HEAVILY involved with OM now, so maybe that has something to do with it? Or is it just the "escape and avoid" mentality since she can't really totally escape me since we have children (and possibly she feels tied down by the piece of paper called a marriage certificate-probably why she wants a divorce so bad???)
-Terrified
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My XW got her divorce almost two years ago.
I wanted to hold out as long as possible but she kept getting more and more radical.
I've been in exactly your shoes.
You will NEVER makes sense of insanity and that is exactly what you are dealing with.
That is why detachment is the only answer. Separate yourself from the madness and get a comfortable chair.
She is going to spin out of control until she gets tired of it.
When she is ready to be logical? You should be well rested.
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Hi I have a question for menow. You said in your post my affair partner was an still is a special person. You called her your affair partner which means she was willing taking part in breaking up a marriage. At what point do you acknowledge that she was not being special when she was doing that.
This is the point I struggle with the mlcer never seems to see what the ow did, they continue as you have done to somewhat idolise this person like some kind of Saint. It is not saintly to be an affair partner.
I am not having a go at you menow, I am simply using what you said as an example of what we hear all the time. If any one ever seems to get a free pass, it's the affair partner.
Just asking.
Sd
X
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You will NEVER makes sense of insanity and that is exactly what you are dealing with.
That is why detachment is the only answer. Separate yourself from the madness and get a comfortable chair.
She is going to spin out of control until she gets tired of it.
When she is ready to be logical? You should be well rested.
This is one to copy & put on the refrigerator.
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Superdog, good question and although I have my thoughts/opinions on your question (Ummm, maybe still somewhat in the 'tunnel'!), I will wait for MeNow to give us his thoughts.
Superdog, obviously you (we) would think we should be the ones who are idolized and considered saintly by our spouse's/ex's for holding down the fort and trying to limit all the damage! ;D Thinking MLC doesn't work that way til completed!
Also agree with HeartTattoo! (and ruggedendurance!) A nice reminder when we cycle!
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Sorry jumping in before MeNow has a chance to answer.
I blame my H entirely. OW is a needy young person. She was SD friend and was a nice girl. I have known her since she was 15. Her dad now is 70+ & mum abt 50...mum had several affairs during marriage and OW hated this. Broke up with baby's father whilst pregnant, low self esteem and if it is to be believed didn't agree with my SD when she said 'I think my dad is interested in you....please stop wearing low cut tops when you come round'. I believe H pursued her...told her a heap of lies and in her need for a protector she fell for him. She is without a doubt in control now and I don't like what she has done or is doing but I think she is a willing victim and will suffer when this ends.
My H got to play the knight. Shortly before BD he would take/pick me up from work. Offer to cook dinner (he was a terrible cook) but here I failed I should have let him try (but we would have gone hungry :) )
He now does everything, cooks, cleans, washes up, doesn't let her do a thing. Treats her like a daughter.
Unhealthy.
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We are not fooling ourselves to think that all is not well in la la land. But we do have to be careful in thinking that even them breaking up will be enough to cause them to come back to us. They may find another one or they may be afraid to face what they have done or they may never get any self awareness and will stay stuck in the tunnel.
It's reason to hope but it is not enough to bank on as far as how things will turn out in the future.
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I cannot say if your H is happy with OW. You would know better than anyone when you see him. Is he happy, vibrant, beaming with life? Or is he angry, lifeless, bitter, lost? If so, then he's not as happy as you think.
100% angry, bitter and lost. Thank you MeNow. You made me feel so much better :)
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So don't compare yourself to her. Not even close. I've never met you but I can tell you are an amazing person. Fun, smart, loving, tempestuous, attractive, classy, real - with much to offer.
So all of you, stop it. It's not you. Your spouses are crazy people. I say this from first hand experience. Crazy people.
MeNow...Thank you.
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We are not fooling ourselves to think that all is not well in la la land. But we do have to be careful in thinking that even them breaking up will be enough to cause them to come back to us. They may find another one or they may be afraid to face what they have done or they may never get any self awareness and will stay stuck in the tunnel.
It's reason to hope but it is not enough to bank on as far as how things will turn out in the future.
This is correct....and why the alienator is a symptom of the crisis. MLC also has other symptoms than the alienator.
From RCR
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_contact-and-communication_pursuit-and-distance_mlcer-run-when-alienator-gone.html
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I am with you Rookie, part of my thinking behind the question. I don't think I would ever want anyone to idolize me though, that's a bit creepy and unhealthy. :o
RCR wrote something in the affair down articles about no matter what or who the OP was before, by virtue of their actions they become affair down material.
At the end of the day who cares what the OP is or isn't, it wasn't them we were married to and our spouses are entirely accountable for what happened.
SD
X
Still like to read your response though MN.
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Hi All,
Each situation and those involved are unique. There are definitely cases here where OP is a real piece of work. Remember that you still love your spouses who are doing the same thing as OP. Your feelings are biased.
I'll tell you from my perspective and my situation. I've said before that my OW was a decent person if you can get past the cheating with a married person elephant. I was the one who contacted OP. My smooth talk and carefully crafted words broke her defenses at a time when I believe she was vulnerable. Her H had been incarcerated for a few years. She said that my first letter to her was the sweetest letter she had ever read. I could tell she was struggling inside with what was happening between us. She kept saying I was dangerous and that's why I didn't push sex with her. I believe she was devestated at the end as I was.
You have shown me much understanding, compassion and forgiveness for what I did. She also made a grave error. Just as I haven't contacted her again, neither has she. She respected that I was married and she was concerned for my kids. She has integrity and I believe what happened shocked her as much as it did me with what we had done. Our emotions got out of hand. Emotions can be a powerful thing.
I cannot judge any of you for your disdain of OP because many of the OPs do not care if they break up your family and steal your spouses. They are truly messed up people. And that's the thing. All of us carry baggage through out life. And it lingers in the background waiting for the right opportunity to explode and manifest itself.
One of the most important things that is mentioned here is "focus on you and work on yourself". We've got to look deep and find out what our baggage is and deal with it. There's a good chance that our issues did affect the overall relationship with our spouses. It was not THE cause for them running away.
In the end, maybe it's not so much that you hate OP as a person but you hate what they are doing. Just as you do with your spouses. Anger and bitterness will not help you to heal and will hinder you from being the person you long to be - whole, independent, strong. Anger can often substitute as strength. It's sometimes necessary (and it is human) as part of the process of the stages we go through but don't stay there. Move forward. That's why I say stop giving OP all that head space. It is nothing more than crazy making.
Still Kicking made an excellent point as she always does. Even if your spouse leaves OW#1, they may move to #2. If not, they still may not come back. They have to work out their issues. There are no guarantees.
I think many hope the OP is a horrible person so maybe spouse will come home sooner. If so, read the previous sentence again. Spouse may come home but if their issues are not worked out, good chance of it happening again down the road.
The good news is that it is possible for spouse to change. No matter the situation. It is a choice. We don't know what's going on behind the scene. I went through my life oblivious to my baggage and not having a mindset to really deal with any of it. The blessing in disguise here is that this ordeal forced me into a different mindset to HAVE to work through them or else stay miserable. Many of you stand the chance to come out of this better than before, whether or not spouse returns.
Since we cannot control spouse, let's work on our own baggage. If spouse comes home, we will be all that better prepared to have a better relationship. If not, we will carry what we have learned into the next one. Even more, this is about you. Finding your own peace, joy, contentment, strength, confidence. That's desirable and attractive in and of itself.
My best to you all
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Hi All,
I wanted to clarify some thoughts on the analyzing part of all this.
It is necessary. It's necessary for you to try to understand what's happened. Necessary for the info to be out there for all to read and study. Some of you are analytical by nature so this is what you do.
Analyzing is good as long as you can handle it. For newbies and those in desperation phase, analyzing is usually harmful and distorted. Once detachment is achieved is when you can look at your sitch more rationally.
For me, I don't spend much time anymore analyzing. If it's worth it, I will. Otherwise I'm doing my own thing.
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All I can say is that my H went off with an OW for 18 months after he left us. He recently described it as a 'nightmare' and OW as a 'deeply troubled' person who cheated on her fiance and then cheated on him two years into her marriage.
He recognises she is awful.
He is however still in crisis, and has moved on to three 'friends'. He said recently to me that he is sick of the sex now. I see movement in him away from all these women and possibly but when they are in crisis they use sex, drugs and booze to stop themselves facing the pain.
The OW doesn't help. The OW f***s them up and it doesn't last long. The crisis does though.
Hugs
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One more thing....
Some if not most of you will possibly never truly understand how your spouse really could have done this.
The reason is, is because you would never do such a thing.
The one thing you will take out of this is your integrity and your innocence. For me, the innocence can never come back. Integrity is something I must be aware of and work on. It really took a hit. These things will be my burden to carry for the rest of my life. It is the same with yours.
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just curious but have any of you had the ow contact you because she is trying to get you to fight with her?
my h's ow has recently in the last few days has been trying to get me to fight with her via text and it is driving her nuts because i won't do it.
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Menow, I disagree, our innocence has been taken also. The innocence of a marriage where such abuse and disrespect didn't exist. The innocence of believing our spouse was above all of this, they were not. We will never have that back either because we will never naively believe that anyone is beyond anything ever again. We will just be better equipped to set up our lives us so that we do not accept any of this in the future.
How do you even begin to look at, examine and measure your level of integrity? What would you be basing it on? Just interested.
Sd
X
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I know all that MeNow but what happened no longer allows for a clean slate. Unless of course, one is going to pretend that the MLC never happened. There is and there always will be someone who had a MLC and someone who did not. Someone who broke trust and someone who did not. Yes, in some cases both spouses had a MLC. For all I read here reconnection is hard, reconciliation even more. And it seems it tends to occur only if the LBS is still on a certain frame of mind.
No idea what God intents for marriages. I'm not religious.
Yes, the MLC is an aberration. One that causes so much damage that often the LBS has long moved on when the MCLer comes out of the crisis. As a general rule those who reconcile are the ones with what we were call mild MLCers. Most marriages do not survive a spouse MLC. If you start to go through the threads of many old timers you will notice that they have all moved on, or are on the process of move on.
Menow in my opinion, you did not have a MLC, you had a slightly bumpy midlife transition. A six months affair and only be with OW once? That is not how people having a real MLC behave. MLCers affairs last years and they seem the OW/OM for ages, including living with them. It does not cross their minds that they may be hurting their children. Also, MLCers OP does not let go, they clinge to the MLCer. So, you and your alienator had a slightly bumpy midlife transition.
You're wrong, our innocence is gone. It was taken away by the MLCer actions. No more innocence. And, probably, no more real trust but for those few who really manage it. Plus, in case we reconnect, we end up with a spouse that has no integrity and is/was capable of the most horrid things.
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BI, sorry about he trouble with the OW, I read about what you are dealing with, keep away from her!
MN, it is funny, my H has said repeatedly to me "you are perfect, you are innocent," this whole thing has shaken me to the core. I do not know where my innocence lies, in many ways I never felt innocent, as it seemed to be stripped from me at an early age. So, no in that way I do not feel that I am innocent, nor have I been since I was very wee. What H offered me in the 12 years together was a rebirth of trust in men, I trusted him almost completely.
I do hope that my H is having a really rocky mid-life transition. It is possible this is the case, he is still here, has cut off relationship with OG/W, and it feels like he is showing more empathy and self reflection. I don't feel like I can speak to innocence because I don't remember the time where I truely had this quality, but I can say that trust and faith in another, in a partner can be re-built, it may look different, there may be a few more fortifications, but I think it can be restored mostly.
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Ohhh I so agree superdog,
Again though we get two sides of the coin.. a LBS and a MLCer view which is good for this site.
MeNow, let's just say until you finish your work, and see the man who used to have compassion for his wife and kids and everything you built with them, and that your OW was not as special as you think but just a crutch on how you felt during your crisis and you were one for her aka..validated your crisis and foo issues as well as you validated her feelings of her 'crappy sitch (hubby in jail) which you had no idea about how it hit you and leave it at that.
Someday you will see what you did ( I guess to no fault of your own because of MLC) and why your ex, who you claim you want to be with, is where she wants to be. I'm guessing she did her work and you still haven't...
Don't win her back because you can...that is not the person she wants back..just say'n... :)
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Menow, I disagree, our innocence has been taken also. The innocence of a marriage where such abuse and disrespect didn't exist. The innocence of believing our spouse was above all of this, they were not. We will never have that back either because we will never naively believe that anyone is beyond anything ever again. We will just be better equipped to set up our lives us so that we do not accept any of this in the future.
How do you even begin to look at, examine and measure your level of integrity? What would you be basing it on? Just interested.
Sd
X
I get it SD. What you have said is the truth. The path of destruction changes many lives forever.
My sitch has the added bonus of this perspective:
There is the loss of innocence for the perpetrator, especially for the widespread destruction caused.
There is the loss of innocence for the victim, as you just described.
I have seen both.
I try to learn about some of my issues and gain knowledge. I suppose I measure integrity by my value system and how my thoughts/actions measure up to what I believe.
Best
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bleh ow is nuts. it's funny hearing her drive herself crazy. it is however i noticed not a very common occurrence for many here that i have seen so i was just wondering if anyone else has had to deal with it and such since it is a new development in my current situation.
don't worry, i stay away from her, she isn't worth my time. she wants me to beat her up, she wants me to engage in a arguement with her and the whole idea of it all bores me to death.
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GREAT post everyone! I'm reading through them tonight. I wanted to post my post again because I think my post go sideline. Again, there might not be an answer but I just wanted to make sure everyone saw it.
Ok, I'm sure no one will really have this answer but I'm putting it out there as a fear I have.
H left last week and has been with EA turn PA I'm guessing for the last 9 day. He will be coming back sometime in the next few days and I'm fearful of what they both have been cooking up against me. As in the list of stuff she's wanting him to do to keep moving forward on our divorce. Mood wise...what am I to expect? Obviously, I'm guessing he's had a pretty awsome time with her. It's one of two times he has spend long time with her. I'm so nervious for his return. It's been peaceful and now I'm stressed that he's mood is going to be whacked out. He's not going to be coming back wanting anything to do with me I'm sure.
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don't pay any attention to him. just don't. it doesn't matter. be cordial in your interactions regarding your business and have nothing else to do with him for now.
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Ohhh I so agree superdog,
Again though we get two sides of the coin.. a LBS and a MLCer view which is good for this site.
MeNow, let's just say until you finish your work, and see the man who used to have compassion for his wife and kids and everything you built with them, and that your OW was not as special as you think but just a crutch on how you felt during your crisis and you were one for her aka..validated your crisis and foo issues as well as you validated her feelings of her 'crappy sitch (hubby in jail) which you had no idea about how it hit you and leave it at that.
Someday you will see what you did ( I guess to no fault of your own because of MLC) and why your ex, who you claim you want to be with, is where she wants to be. I'm guessing she did her work and you still haven't...
Don't win her back because you can...that is not the person she wants back..just say'n... :)
Hi Rookie,
Thanks for your reply.
I do not hold OW up on a pedestal. I used to when I was infatuated and through out the years when I secretly pined for her somewhere deep inside, which was a longstanding issue. I understand the reasons why I did it. I have closure to that issue. As such, I believe my opinion of her is a fair one. I am not excusing her nor am I judging her as a whole based on what happened.
Something did sting though as I read:
"Someday you will see what you did ( I guess to no fault of your own because of MLC) and why your ex, who you claim you want to be with, is where she wants to be. I'm guessing she did her work and you still haven't..."
I spent much time thinking about what I did. A lot of remorse/regret much of which was based on my desperation in trying to win her back. Rooted in selfishness.
I know what I did. I lived it. I saw what it did to my marriage and family. And that threw me into a pit that took years to crawl out of. I fought for my survival. Now that the debris has cleared I can see that I didn't understand her pain as I was focused on mine. So selfishness is an issue for me to work on and the roots of that.
Also this:
"Don't win her back because you can...that is not the person she wants back.."
At this point, I am not trying to win her back. I do not know the path back. I do wish to apologize for what I did in a way I hope helps her to heal. That is all I can do.
Any chance we might have would have to be something brand new. That's all I know. I've accepted that and continue to move forward in my life.
Regards
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Blackice, I so agree! ;D.... UL, you don't owe him or should care how his return home is... He is/was on a 9 day MLC affair! Sorry UL, you can't win him back being nice here...he's 'gone'.....maybe something on the line of ' I think it is time you leave H' is more in order when he gets back....for your self and your own healing but just my opinion..
MeNow, thanks for your reply, hoping for your continued growth! :)
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LOl! I'm not trying to be nice. I'm kind of trying to protect myself. I have to work with him. I know they have had 9 days of scheming. I just thought maybe I could prepare myself for whatever mood he would or might have.
I know he's been gone 9 days to see his A. However, he will deny it. He knows I'll know but because of the divorce he will not be open about where he has been. I won't ask. But I know she's leading him. I'm sure he's going to come up with some sort of something he wants me to do to move the divorce along or be passive/agressive towards me in some way. Or, for a few days he'll be trying to treat me like his best friend out of guilt.
Not trying to win him back with kindness. I'll have to go back and read my post to see what I said. LOL
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UL,
Then you have answered your own question of what you need to do..... :)
Put up with nothing short of how you would expect to be treated in the same cheating sitch... MLC? yes, acceptable behavior? No.. Self worth? everything! :)
Business together/working with him? hmmm...again, do you need to live together and work together?? jsut wondering...
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Our business is in our apartment. Just before he left he moved out or semi moved out. He didn't take most of his stuff.I actually think he took what he needed to move up to where the PA is. He stayed at a hotel for 2 days, caught up on some work and disappeared on Thursday or I didn't hear from him and I knew already he was heading up to see her because he had quit his main job that covered my cancer. I lost our benefit. By Saturday I get a text that he was taking the week of and would catch up work next week. So, when he gets back he will need to figure out where he will be staying because he can't stay at a hotel at $90.00 a night. I don't believe he will want to get an apartment because in his head he thinks our divorce is going to be over in a couple of weeks and he can move to where the OW is. He has no idea that we haven't really even started this divorce yet. I guess he could leave and not have the divorce over but I don't think he would want that because it would really slow things down.
So, answer is no we don't need to live together to work together.
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I know all that MeNow but what happened no longer allows for a clean slate. Unless of course, one is going to pretend that the MLC never happened. There is and there always will be someone who had a MLC and someone who did not. Someone who broke trust and someone who did not. Yes, in some cases both spouses had a MLC. For all I read here reconnection is hard, reconciliation even more. And it seems it tends to occur only if the LBS is still on a certain frame of mind.
And that is the key - the mindset. It is one reason why a reconciliation isn't possible. It is a choice.
Yes, the MLC is an aberration. One that causes so much damage that often the LBS has long moved on when the MCLer comes out of the crisis. As a general rule those who reconcile are the ones with what we were call mild MLCers. Most marriages do not survive a spouse MLC. If you start to go through the threads of many old timers you will notice that they have all moved on, or are on the process of move on.
This I understand. There comes a time when a point of no return is reached. Deal breakers. I believe my W falls into this category. Also LBSers tend to grow and find their changes are not compatible with their spouse anymore.
Menow in my opinion, you did not have a MLC, you had a slightly bumpy midlife transition. A six months affair and only be with OW once? That is not how people having a real MLC behave. MLCers affairs last years and they seem the OW/OM for ages, including living with them. It does not cross their minds that they may be hurting their children. Also, MLCers OP does not let go, they clinge to the MLCer. So, you and your alienator had a slightly bumpy midlife transition.
I have said I have an problem calling it a MLC. I did have many of the symptoms. The length for sure was unusually short compared to the "norm". Do you know if children cross their minds? Is there some special formula how everyone is supposed to act? Yes, there are general guidelines but there are always exceptions to the rule. I thought about my kids but my own desire was stronger for a time. Is it not possible for even MLCers to make a rational choice, especially when they realize what they have done? We made a choice to end affair. It was hard to disengage, like a drug addict going cold turkey. How many of them succeed? So, you may be absolutely correct. The semantics of whether or not I was MLC or midlife transition for me, isn't a critical one.
You're wrong, our innocence is gone. It was taken away by the MLCer actions. No more innocence. And, probably, no more real trust but for those few who really manage it. Plus, in case we reconnect, we end up with a spouse that has no integrity and is/was capable of the most horrid things.
Anjae, I didn't mean to downplay or dismiss this. I understand.
Perhaps my response to Rookie can explain.
Best
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Why would your wife fall under that category? Are you about to move on? Do you think she will not come out of crisis? Yes, LBS tend to grow and a point comes when the LBS and the MLCer are not compatible anymore. Of course that, like with everything, there are exceptions. And, yet, we are told that MLC is a growing process and the MLCer will be a more mature, better person when the crisis is over. In a way, yes, but in my view they still have not grow as much as the LBS.
All MLCers I have come across, in the board stories and real life, were not able to call off the affair. One of the characteristics of MLC affair is that it does not end by the reasons normal affairs ends (spouse finds out, children are taken in consideration, the cheater realises the mistake). Since both you and your OW called it out it is a different affair from the ones our MLCer have.
The difference between MLC and midlife transition is important. The first is a years long situation with gigantic consequences and damages, the second can include an affair but is a mild thing. Most sites and blogs label midlife transition MLC and say it last about 6 months to a year and that the affair will soon end. That is not the case with MLC. I understand the affair can be like a drug but I find it very hard to believe that those that spend several years living with OW/OM do not see what they are doing and that they fail to see what OW/OM is. And once one is living daily life no more fantasy, so, a MLC affair really is a odd thing.
From what we read here on the board and from real life MLCers I know children do not factor in the decision of leaving/staying. Children may cross their mind but they do not stop a MCLer from leaving, from carry on the affair or from live with OW/OM.
MLCers leave in a world of emotions, but, again, it is a little hard to believe said emotions can run someone’s life for 5,6,7,8 or more years.
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UL, Sorry to hear of your condition.. and hope you are well! I see the need for your H to take care of you but he is not there. :(
Understanding how your needs coincides with your sitch, and seeing you have been left by him with no insurance, how can he coming home improve your sitch? Can you get state aid??
Most don't take all their belongings, 'escape/avoid mode', hence running ....
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Emergency Hearing is trying to be schedule so he will have to pay along with emergency alimony. I have a surgery schedule that I'm probably going to have to cancel now. He said something about leaving his job on the Family Act Leave and us paying for insurance for a couple of months but I don't know if he did that right. When he gets back in town he was to call and figure out what we have because they won't tell me. Ok, I don't know what sitch mean.
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Sitch means situation/case.
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Thanks Anjae... :)
UL, sounds like you have some control with your hearing!.. his 'escape' though makes things tough ...I guess I would try my best to get what you need at the Emergency hearing and I hope he shows!
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Oh thanks!
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Well, he wants this divorce like NOW so you would think even an emergency hearing would be something he would show up to. I just have to get it on the calendar. But who knows, he has already done a few things that doesn't make him look well in the eyes of the attorney's. I don't even know when he will be back in the state. Crazy stuff from a guy who never did anything wrong, never had any drama but looking back never voiced anything. Lots of stuff going on in his head no one knew about.
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When MeNow said the LBS was still innocent I took it not to mean in the "young and naive" sense but in the innocent vs. guilty sense. The MLCer will always be guilty of having had the affair and the LBS (in most cases) will always be able to carry their innocence of not having done the same.
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UL,
I hear you, my ex was a CCD teacher (church) ... MLC escapes nobody if they have been 'destined' to receive it.... (FOO)...
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UL,
My ex is covered in tattoo's now ( never had one), has fake boobs and 'runs' with a dude who looks like a biker (yet does not have one..lol) and listens to the group called 'five finger death punch'...If that doesn't scream 'something' (MLC)..nothing does... :)
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Oh my gosh! Yep, that screams MLC. My H is on blood thinners so I don't see that happening but he did go after our Retirement plan. I think my H is trying to be the poster child for the description of MLC, he can't afford a new slick car though so that probably won't happen. Along with that of course he trust no one and is into conspircy stuff and is sure he will die before his 60 because he has heart issue that are under control but now that he doesn't have health insurance he could be working to make his death a reality.
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omg rookie, my h started listening to five finger death punch about 5 months ago. i swear this is all just too weird.
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Rookie and blackice,
It mad me laugh when you talked about Five Finger Death Punch. Not that there is ANYTHING funny about any of this, but that is the type of music I have always liked. My X was into country and 70's music, mainly. Hated hard rock and thought it was a lot of noise.
When he first went into his crisis he started downloading music by Disturbed, Charm City Devils, Godsmack and many other hard rock groups. What? He hated that kind of noise! Bought an IPod so he could listen to his music at home. Even sang along with the songs. (my poor ears) lol
It took him about 2 years and he's now back to Eddie Rabbit and his mellow music. :)
I just thought this was significant to mention because it shows you what chaos is going on in their head when they are is crisis. The music is noisy, aggressive, twisted and loud, just like their mind is.
Hang in, it gets better. It's not who they really are. They just need time to work through their chaotic mess.
The personalities you see now are them trying to be someone completely different from who they were. Their in a fantasy at the moment. Can't live in a fantasy forever.
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I found a mixture of songs in my H car that was given to him about his A who is 32. All love songs of course. When I said something about it all I got was they were? My H is completely convinced he's in his 30's.
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that's funny, my h has always listened to rock off and on but was always more of a rap person. thing is along with these new bands, he really listens hard core to the bands i always listen to. pearl jam being the main one. he started singing to be more like chris cornell because he remembered i liked his voice and now he is trying to be like eddie veddar.
the whole singing thing happened because ow 1 mentioned he should do it. i want to find her and slap her.
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Rookie and blackice,
It mad me laugh when you talked about Five Finger Death Punch. Not that there is ANYTHING funny about any of this, but that is the type of music I have always liked. My X was into country and 70's music, mainly. Hated hard rock and thought it was a lot of noise.
When he first went into his crisis he started downloading music by Disturbed, Charm City Devils, Godsmack and many other hard rock groups. What? He hated that kind of noise! Bought an IPod so he could listen to his music at home. Even sang along with the songs. (my poor ears) lol
It took him about 2 years and he's now back to Eddie Rabbit and his mellow music. :)
I just thought this was significant to mention because it shows you what chaos is going on in their head when they are is crisis. The music is noisy, aggressive, twisted and loud, just like their mind is.
Hang in, it gets better. It's not who they really are. They just need time to work through their chaotic mess.
The personalities you see now are them trying to be someone completely different from who they were. Their in a fantasy at the moment. Can't live in a fantasy forever.
I'm almost 37 and listen to Disturbed; although I admit I have been listening to the hard rock a lot more lately than I used to. I find it extremely therapeutic right now for some reason. I supoose I am just angry/confused and the loud agressive music helps me deal with my situation. I love listening to it when I'm in the gym; it pumps me up!
I wouldn't necessarily say that listening to hard rock is a sign of MLC, but I will say that it may be a red flag if your spouse never listened to it before or hated it before and is now suddenly into it. It could be that the OW/OM is into that music and they are trying to be into the same things.
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Love Pearl Jam...and yes, she deserves a slap. LOL
Mine wore head phones so he couldn't hear himself. He has a lot of talents but singing is NOT one of them. ::)
So glad he quit doing that.
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I agree, confused. If they never listened to it before, it could be the sign of outside interests influencing.
I think my X just felt younger and hipper by listening to this kind of music. He's back to mellow now. Way too mellow for me. : )
BTW, I love Disturbed, too.
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I agree also Confused,
For my ex though it is/was one red flag amongst many. She loved country and 70 -80's rock n roll. I can pinpoint now my ex started to change when she used to take our then D15 to concerts geared to teenagers (Fall Out Boy)... She became 'interested' in 'heavier' music with the dude she is with now and to me is just mirroring him like she mirrored me with sports. My now D22 went with her/them last month to see 'five finger death punch' and she walked out after about an hour and drove herself home. She was a little disturbed by the music and her mums behavior although my D22 loves 'Alice in chains'.
I will know I am 'changing' as soon as my taste in music changes! ;D ;D
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Mirroring?
This seems to be my H's biggest issue. He is on big mirror. He can't seem to figure out who he is. He mirrors friends, me, family. He's like that movie where Julie Roberts would eat the same eggs style as her boyfriends. She never knew though how she liked her eggs. My H is like that. He just doesn't know who he is. We have talked about that and I have tried over the years to figure out who he is deep down. I really think this is one issue that is bringing on his MLC along with a few other things.
NOW, he has this OW and I know he will mirror her in everything she does, feel, loves, likes and interest. I already see it. I know he left his job because she didn't like the school. He took on her dislike. I see other things where he has done this, music, research, conspiracies, etc. He is so guided by her.
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my h's ow mirrors him, its so weird, she is like a blank slate. she says things he says, tries the laugh the way he laughs its pathetic. she has no original thoughts or arguments, she uses movie quotes to try to insult you and make small talk with, she is the most boring person i have met in my life. no ambitions or goals or motivation.
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Why would your wife fall under that category? Are you about to move on? Do you think she will not come out of crisis? Yes, LBS tend to grow and a point comes when the LBS and the MLCer are not compatible anymore. Of course that, like with everything, there are exceptions. And, yet, we are told that MLC is a growing process and the MLCer will be a more mature, better person when the crisis is over. In a way, yes, but in my view they still have not grow as much as the LBS.
All MLCers I have come across, in the board stories and real life, were not able to call off the affair. One of the characteristics of MLC affair is that it does not end by the reasons normal affairs ends (spouse finds out, children are taken in consideration, the cheater realises the mistake). Since both you and your OW called it out it is a different affair from the ones our MLCer have.
The difference between MLC and midlife transition is important. The first is a years long situation with gigantic consequences and damages, the second can include an affair but is a mild thing. Most sites and blogs label midlife transition MLC and say it last about 6 months to a year and that the affair will soon end. That is not the case with MLC. I understand the affair can be like a drug but I find it very hard to believe that those that spend several years living with OW/OM do not see what they are doing and that they fail to see what OW/OM is. And once one is living daily life no more fantasy, so, a MLC affair really is a odd thing.
From what we read here on the board and from real life MLCers I know children do not factor in the decision of leaving/staying. Children may cross their mind but they do not stop a MCLer from leaving, from carry on the affair or from live with OW/OM.
MLCers leave in a world of emotions, but, again, it is a little hard to believe said emotions can run someone’s life for 5,6,7,8 or more years.
You are absolutely correct in all that you have said. After many years with OP, it's not emotions running the show anymore. There could be several reasons why they stay. I think LBSs would do well to analyze whether spouse seems happy with new life or not (after considerable period of time). WAS may have guilt/pride and feel like they can't come back or guilty to leave OP especially if kids involved. They may have issues that prevent them. I also think they comfortable, not happy but comfortable in their situation. One other thing is they may not want to go through the trauma of breaking up a relationship and all that involves again.
I believe my W was the one who most likely was more MLC than me. She told me herself my affair was a deal breaker. She followed through completely with it, never looking back and never giving me an ounce of hope.
She seems to be in another phase of her journey. She's stopped the wild behavior and spends most of her time alone now.
As for me, I'm focusing on me and my life. I'm wanting to move out of the "stuck" stage. I'm ok being alone and not actively seeking another. I'd like to have someone special to grow old with but I don't need it. So I will take things as they come and see where life takes me. I'm realizing there are many amazing people out there.
Best
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my h's ow mirrors him, its so weird, she is like a blank slate. she says things he says, tries the laugh the way he laughs its pathetic. she has no original thoughts or arguments, she uses movie quotes to try to insult you and make small talk with, she is the most boring person i have met in my life. no ambitions or goals or motivation.
I call it pretzeling. Twisting yourself into someone else to try to please another. LBSs tend to do it to win spouse back and WAS does it to please OP. In the end, leads to unhappiness because it's not the real you.
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i have heard other people call it that too. i never did it. i just started being myself again after being sick and miserable for so long it freaked h out. he told me he didn't trust my changes but he sees now they are permanent and one of the reasons he keeps coming after me. doofus. i had told him for years i was sick and trying to get better and once i did i would be myself again. once i do my world falls apart and he loses his mind.
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I agree with the pretzeling MeNow..
My ex is a classic. She brought nothing into our R at 18. Took to my parents as her own and mirrored everything my family did and condoned everything her family did ( her family has LOADS of FOO and dysfunction). She is now in her 'rightful place' (shadow??). She behaves just like her family members the ones she held below her for 20 years and 'b!tc#ed' about for 20 years. She has 'slid' right in with them. And they are mostly appalled by her and her actions as for 20 years she presented herself differently and as the 'good one' and were jealous of her. Now she is off her 'pedestal' with her family and receives no 'special attention' like she used to get.
Do I think she is happy?? Nope! Scared as hell to being abandoned so she mirrors everything in her BF? Yep....
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For my ex though it is/was one red flag amongst many. She loved country and 70 -80's rock n roll. I can pinpoint now my ex started to change when she used to take our then D15 to concerts geared to teenagers (Fall Out Boy)...
I will know I am 'changing' as soon as my taste in music changes! ;D ;D
My W liked mellow rock when we first met (Journey, Foreigner), then became a big country music fan during the 80s. Now my granddaughter says W spends a lot of time listening to the kind of boy band music early and pre-teen girls like. Supposedly, her favorite song now is one called Amnesia that is about someone who wished they could wake up with amnesia so they could forget about their past and the song's refrain is "I'm really not fine at all".
OTOH, my 13yo granddaughter and I seem to have the same tastes in music now. We both love bands like Staind, Maroon Five, Daughtry, Nickelback, and our favorite group is Evanescence.
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The difference between MLC and midlife transition is important. The first is a years long situation with gigantic consequences and damages, the second can include an affair but is a mild thing. Most sites and blogs label midlife transition MLC and say it last about 6 months to a year and that the affair will soon end. That is not the case with MLC. I understand the affair can be like a drug but I find it very hard to believe that those that spend several years living with OW/OM do not see what they are doing and that they fail to see what OW/OM is. And once one is living daily life no more fantasy, so, a MLC affair really is a odd thing.
MLCers leave in a world of emotions, but, again, it is a little hard to believe said emotions can run someone’s life for 5,6,7,8 or more years.
You are absolutely correct in all that you have said. After many years with OP, it's not emotions running the show anymore. There could be several reasons why they stay. I think LBSs would do well to analyze whether spouse seems happy with new life or not (after considerable period of time). WAS may have guilt/pride and feel like they can't come back or guilty to leave OP especially if kids involved. They may have issues that prevent them. I also think they comfortable, not happy but comfortable in their situation. One other thing is they may not want to go through the trauma of breaking up a relationship and all that involves again.
The difference between a transition and a crisis have to do with the amount of denial / avoidance. I went through a fairly severe transition a couple of years ago that didn't turn into a crisis because I started therapy and at one time was reading as many as ten self-help books simultaneously trying to figure out what was wrong with me.
The affair and other Replay behaviors are all about avoidance. The MLCer is trying to deny that they're aging and that they have issues (FOO) they need to deal with. I think the ones that go long term do so because they refuse to do the work that will allow them to move on so they become stuck within the tunnel. Read the article about Limbo. I don't encourage my D31 to rip into my wife periodically like she does but I'm not sorry she does it because I think her rants blast through my W's fog and keep her moving through the tunnel without allowing her to become complacent and stuck in Limbo. I do notice forward progress usually occurs shortly after my D tears into my W about her behavior.
Limbo
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_progress_back-limbo-forward_limbo.html (http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_progress_back-limbo-forward_limbo.html)
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When MeNow said the LBS was still innocent I took it not to mean in the "young and naive" sense but in the innocent vs. guilty sense. The MLCer will always be guilty of having had the affair and the LBS (in most cases) will always be able to carry their innocence of not having done the same.
Hi SK,
This is correct.
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I was married for 21 years to my husband. We restored a Victorian home together. We went on all kinds of weird vacations together. We collected weird antiquities. We put on gigantic elaborate Halloween and Christmas shows at our house for the town. It is wall to wall traffic on our street for our shows. When he would walk in a store, little kids would run up to him and hug him and say Mom it's the Halloween house guy! We were on the tv news and in the paper for our displays. We rescued blind and handicapped dogs for 15 years. We had big Halloween parties for 120 people every year that everyone talked about because they were so fun and elaborate. Our house looks like the Addams family house on the inside and people would knock on our door and ask us if they could have a tour of our house. Our backyard looks like a Hawaiian tiki village. My husband was so proud of all of this. We were best friends, we did everything together. And then he had his MLC at 47. Told me, we've had an amazing 21 years together and now I want a completely different 20 years. Now he smokes pot and drinks and does pills and sits in a bar every night with his OW whom he just married last weekend. I had a complete nervous breakdown when he left a year ago. I am so much better now, healing up nicely, learning to live without him, but the hardest thing is I just can't get past the OW. She has no education. She works 2 days a week as a bartender in a ghetto bar. She has done absolutely nothing with her life. No achievements, no charity work of any kind, no contribution to society, just always smoked pot and sat at bars. She is 42 and owns nothing. How do you own not a thing after 42 years on this earth? She has no close friends only bar associates. She destroyed her first husband emotionally and financially. I will never understand the attraction there, other than she has an overpowering personality and he likes the drug and alcohol scene now I guess. My thinking is that no matter where he goes or what he does, he will never be able to shake the memory of me and the interesting life we had together. I was introduced to someone who hangs out at the bars he frequents and they told me that he walks around and shows people pictures of his Halloween displays and tiki bar. Things he no longer owns - I own them. All of his drug and bar memories are all going to blend into one and the only memorable things he will have in his mind is the amazing things we did with our life together. Using logic and psychology, and putting my insecurities aside, I truly believe the memory of me, our house, our dogs, and all we did, will haunt him. I truly believe that one day he will wake up from this and see this POS OW for what she really is. Him and I, we essentially grew up together, embarked on the world as young adults together, did awesome things that most people would like to do but never do. I don't think he will ever be able to forget me. The OW is so overpowering and he is so spineless now, I don't know if he will ever have the cajones to leave her. Honestly, I think she will cheat on him or leave him for a stronger personality with more money. I think my husband is just a stepping stone for her to try and have money. She tells anyone that will listen that she was born to be rich. Yet she has never had a dime. I just want to get past the OW. She is the only ghost I have haunting me right now. I hope someday she will not occupy any space in my head. I just cannot wrap my mind around the fact that she is such an incredible loser and he is obsessed with her.
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Toysaplenty, it is very hard to understand their attraction to the OP. I struggled with that for a long time. I mean OM1 was a drunk, a contractor that screwed people over (he isn't allowed in my best friend's town anymore due to how many people he screwed, and there was an ad in the paper warning about him and his brother - complete loser and every woman I talked to said he was ugly compared to me lol).
I lost 25 lbs in a month initially - stress, anxiety, and barely eating. And then I began lifting weights heavily once my appetite came back (I used to lift casually, but not like this). I was ripped after a few months...it STILL didn't matter. Then I figured it was something emotional I was/wasn't doing...and then I gave up and realized it wasn't about me. Nothing I did mattered.
I honestly think they get so depressed, that their emotional state lowers to the point of the OP's state. They refuse to blame themselves, so they blame you. And in your case, he ran to somebody completely opposite of you - probably due to the blame. If he's going to "start over", he probably figured it would be best to start over with someone the opposite of you thinking that would "fix" everything inside of him.
But don't worry, your H's OW sounds like what my W has become (other than the drugs, I don't think she's doing that). Well, she was on phentramine (sp?) for weight loss. It is an amphetamine that curbs your appetite and I read about its crazy side effects (angry at your spouse for no apparent reason, etc.). She didn't need to lose weight I didn't think, but whatever.
Since she is opposite of your H, I don't see it lasting, especially how it started out. I'm guessing your H was reserved and relatively quiet like I am (at least until you get a few beers in me lol)? There were a lot of things that annoyed me about my W (also an Aries like OW), but I accepted them - and we started out with a clean slate. Those annoyances will hit your H hard one day. I have no doubt she'll cheat on him eventually...or at least he'll be extremely paranoid of her.
He will remember the life he had. He will remember the things he enjoyed to do. It will take a while, and the OW will probably destroy him before that happens, but you can't control that. So try not to worry about her. She hit an emotional cord in him somewhere in the middle of his depression/crisis, and that is it. It isn't true love like you and your H had. It is hormones/chemicals, depression, etc. She is like a drug, and that's all. She's merely a human sized pill or drink.
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My husband was asigned A for a research project that started summer of 2013. I knew right up front this was not a good idea. We talked about it not being a good idea. There was conflict from the start with it.
I never worried about this kind of stuff with my husband before but for some reason my gut said, this isn't going to turn out right. Something happened between that time till March 2014 when he made the first calls. From those first calls off started the EA. Then April BD and divorce talks. He has nver waiver from that point. Everything in our past was my fault and he wants out of the marriage.
What slowed him down was money. So, he cashed in our retirement. Then I had to get an attorney to protect myself.
Now, here it is October, He got mad because I canceled our Mediation for an emergency hearing because he quit his job and now we have no medical benefit.
He moved some of his stuff out a week ago Tuesday. Now, looking back I think he moved out stuff to move to OW's state. I think he's thinking our divorce is going to happen sooner than later. I haven't heard from him since he left.
Out of all of this and it all breaks my heart because like so many we had a great marriage. But, what I lose hope about is...He never waiver with the divorce. He never goes back and forth, he's just so into the OW thinking I'm guessing that he's completely in love with her and is going to make a future with her.
He has never waivered or should me any hope of being confused about his decision to be with her or maybe stay with me. But, up untill now we were staying in the same apartment, gooding to dinner still together, being friends. I guess he was cake eating.
He has cause so many issues because he isn't thinking right. He has been with OW now from 11 days playing house in her state. He should be on his way back. I don't know I haven't heard from him. But, I think I might have me a man who has been so quiet about his thoughts for so long that when he hit MLC and made his decision with OW that he isn't budging on his decisions to leave me. He's very confident right or wrong in what he chooses to do. MLC has made him confident to say what's on his mind if you ask him, find fault with me. Having a 32 year old has given him confidence and made him cocky too.
What hurts the most is his not doubting. I wish I had someone wanting to come back and forth back into the house. I wish he would give me signed of doubt. I wish I could see signs that deep down he still loves me. But, all I see is things he keeps doing against me like I'm some enemy. In his head he is completely convinced I'm out to get him and just plan angry with me. Although he doesn't usually verbally go after me like some OP. He is angry about our pass life that was a good life.
I started this thread not knowing what I would find. What a health of information. I know that my H affair is based around he's need to fix her, rescue her from a disease she has leaving me with the cancer I have alone. I know that their relationship is dyfuctional or will be soon. I'm sure she's already controlling him, giving him advice on what to do with me and I'm sure the quickness of the divorce is she doesn't want to be the OW and he's completly into this relationship. But is my H happy? Will he found out that even with her he's still struggling with what is going on in his head and see that even though he's been with her for 11 days he's still struggling to make sense of his life? Or will he find that this new love is just what he needs to move forward with his life.
I know, those aren't questions that have answers. I just don't see a lot of LBS with H's who don't waiver much which make it harder for me to read what is going on with my H. He is a high replayer for a quiet, procrasternater kind of person. Pretty Nacissitic right now for sure too. It's all about him.
I did go back and read about the MLC affair. I do believe their relationship will be doomed. Not sure my husband will leave this relationship. I'm very afraid he will be so humilated and ashamed he will not come back to his friends or I because he can be very prideful. He has do so many things out of creator for himself or at least I believe out of creator. Maybe he hid who he really was ver well. Maybe all this stuff he's doing was a part of him I never saw and MLC just brought it out more. The new man is a liar, cheater, secretive, thief, but won't say one word about being in this affair. He keeps denying it because it was an EA which might have turned PA this week. He does not want to be a adulterer. In his mind he believes he hasn't up till now done anything wrong. It would bought me as another OW which would never be to not have my man not bring me forth or stand up for what we were doing. He hiding, sneaking and lying about their relationship. He is the only one buying into his denial of this affair.
It will be interesting to see if this relationship takes a turn in some way after they have been together for 11 days. He could be bringing her back with him to work on this research project. She was suppose to be here this week or next. If she is coming back with him, she better hope his car makes in for the 18 drive back on a cracked cylinder head.
OK, sorry this turned out longer than I thought.
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But, what I lose hope about is...He never waiver with the divorce....What hurts the most is his not doubting. I wish I had someone wanting to come back and forth back into the house. I wish he would give me signed of doubt.
UL,
I am so sorry you are going through this. You are still very early in this unwanted journey & there is still a lot of turmoil in your situation because of your H's being at home & now possibly leaving & getting a D. Take some deep breaths & take care of yourself. This is a long ride & you need to be strong & healthy.
There are a lot of Clinging Boomerang/Boomerang types on the forum that come & go & talk back & forth about their doubts & "I'll be back someday after I figure myself out...". Mine is not one of those. He is at best an Off & On-er tending toward Vanisher. He had a long time PA without me having a clue, he BD'ed me one morning, & walked out 10 minutes later with his car packed to live with the OW. He has never given any indication to me in e-mail (our primary communication) or in person (rare encounters) that he has any doubt about his course of action. He cycled a bit in the beginning, offering to help with some tasks at our place, responding when I hugged him & told him I missed him, that he missed me too. But 21 months along I have never had any indications in his words that he has any doubts.
None of that is really relevant to our journey, UL. In fact, I think there are some distinct advantages to having the MLCer out of your hair. Life is calmer, quieter; you have time to take care of you, time to think, time to face your own pain & learn to deal with it. Detachment comes faster when you can do all of this. Dealing with an in-home or Boomeranging MLCer takes tremendous energy & focus that can really be better put to use focusing on yourself.
You read opinions here that only Boomerangs return; Vanishers seldom return, etc, etc. NO ONE really has a clue about this. There is really NO accurate statistics about MLC. Some MLCers return home before the LBS gives up on them. Some MLCers want to come home, but have waited too long & the LBS has a new life that can't include the MLCer. Some MLCers stick to their course, stay with the OP, & make some sort of life with them. No one can predict what any individual MLCer will do, especially this early in the situation. A total waste of energy to even contemplate at this point.
But is my H happy?...It's all about him.
My belief is that No, they are not happy. And yes, it IS all about them, every single thing is about THEM. No empathy for you at all. They can wear a mask of functionality, at work for example, & walking around with their heads full & mush & chewing gum at the same time, LOL. But happy, no, they have applied defective external solutions to the problems that lie within them, that are internal. They have become addicted to the "good feelings" that an adoring alienator pour on them. But adoration fades, discord follows, the "good feelings" aren't there anymore & the original issues/problems are still there inside of them. In addition they now have the baggage of guilt & shame & humiliation, that they keep trying to deny or compartmentalize, but keep cropping up.
A sad, defective, empty way to live. Turn away from that, UL, & get on with building a life for now that focuses on you, gets you feeling better, gets you strong. No matter what the future holds, that is what will serve you best.
Hugs,
HT
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Maybe he hid who he really was ver well. Maybe all this stuff he's doing was a part of him I never saw and MLC just brought it out more. The new man is a liar, cheater, secretive, thief, but won't say one word about being in this affair.
UL,
He is no longer the man he used to be. You're now seeing pieces of his shadow surface, which are all of those characteristics of his personality that he had been repressing. Some of those pieces may be positive, but most are negative. You probably wouldn't want the man he is now. Usually they pick an OP who is as broken as they are. If he moves forward he will discard the negative pieces of his shadow and assimilate the positive pieces into his true self but that takes time, it's painful and requires reflection, and they use avoiding behaviors like the affair and substance abuse to avoid doing the hard work required.
To give you an example, my W was a thoughtful and caring person who was very helpful and usually put everyone else's needs ahead of her own. She was also a conflict avoider who wouldn't tell you what she wanted and avoided change or trying new things. Now she's self-absorbed and doesn't seem to realize how badly she's hurting everyone else. She's also experimenting with making changes she would never try before.
My W has always had long, beautiful black hair. She recently cut it so that it hangs about two inches below her shoulders. She hates it, but she tried it. She also has never cared for spicy food or most vegetables except for bland ones like cauliflower. Last night she shared an order of pepper steak with peppers and onions with me. She never would have eaten that before. Now she likes it. And we couldn't get her to sit at the piano with us last night and try to play, but she did mention that someone had once told her that her long, slender fingers were perfectly suited for playing the piano and she seemed interested.
I hope she does the work to get through this and it seems that she is but she is doing it through experimentation whereas I went through therapy and read self help books. My expectation is that eventually she will be essentially the same person she was before but that she will be a little more assertive, a little more adventurous, a little more willing to make decisions and let people know what she wants. I hope I am still around for it and she decides one of the things she wants is me.
Watch the Julia Roberts movie The Runaway Bride. During the movie she likes her eggs prepared however her current fiance likes them. At the end of the movie she tries 6 or 7 different types of eggs to try to figure out how she likes them. That's a good illustration of what's going on with our spouses. They're setting aside what they think they know about themselves to try to find out she they really are.
Here is a link to an article about the Shadow.
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_shadow.html (http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_shadow.html)
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Unconditional...He has never waivered or should me any hope of being confused about his decision to be with her or maybe stay with me.
Mine never waivered either. He, from the start, made up his mind he wanted to get a D and stuck with that thought until it happened. He never showed any doubt at all. Still doesn't.
My X didn't have an ow but I think in his head he didn't want to be a cheater (I know, weird, huh?) so he HAD to get a D so he would be free to find someone else. His moral compass was still intact.
Afterwards he did try off and on (dating sites, flirting) to find someone but he so far hasn't. Is he still open to a new R? I have not a clue.
We have a good relationship now. No flirting or looking at dating sites, but he's still in crisis so I remain detached but on guard.
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in regards to ow and my h
yesterday he told me that she was there when he needed someone to talk to, she could have been anyone but she is the one who paid him attention at the time and it went from there. she did however push and pursue, he said it caught him off guard and he was in a bad place and vulnerable and she took advantage of that. basically let me know there isn't anything special about her, she was just the one who said yes.
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MBIB,
The Runaway Bride - Yes, I use this example on my H's life. He takes on everyone else's likes. He always has and I have tried to get to know who he really was but it's hard. I never know if he likes something because he's friends liked, he's family , liked it or I liked it. I do believe how he likes his eggs has a lot to do with MLC. He's lost! Thanks for your personal journey and insights. I know it's still early for me but I'm always trying to figure out what I know I can't. LOL!
Heart,
Yes, it's still early! I do need to be reminded of that. I feel like two weeks ago Tuesday when he moved out and stayed at a hotel for 2 days then took off secretly to make a drive to see the OW 18 hours away in a car I still can't believe made the trip if he took it set panic in me. It is easier for sure when I don't see him. I get sad, I cry and pray but I do see that I'm not feel with stress anxiety. I know or I feel like these days with her moved their relationship to another level, has got him thinking possibly, and after a few days of being there he sees maybe his issues haven't gone away being away from me and with her. I feel like this long, long week has to be to get him moving through the tunnel even if so slowly. But, I don't like it and it just brought up so many red horrible flags and feelings.
I feel like my H is a high boomerang with all the grief he has given me. But I do wonder if he isn't clingy too. I get confused with that. He would have stayed in the apartment forever but I believe that is mainly because he's OW doesn't live in our state. So, he had no where to go and didn't want to be alone although he says he does. Also, I think he thought it was to his benefit to be in the apartment so he could try and talk me into what he wanted for the divorce. Moving it fast.
I do believe my H is involved with a dysfunctional person that I hope will show her true colors soon and he sees it. I'm hoping he doesn't let her lead him down a more destructive path and we'll wake up. I do believe they both need each other but I'm hoping his eyes will open up at some point. He has completely created havoc on his professional, personal and spiritual and financial life. He can't be happy. I just can't see how her direction he has been following has brought any happiness to him. He's losing everything and being lead by someone who has no credibility.
Thanks everyone!
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Thanks Thunder for replying!
Are you back in a relationship with your XH? Are you both now after the divorce coming together and reconnecting?
Black, I would like to think OW isn't special. I have seen her and she's not in that way. Their connection started with a stupid research thing and he thought she was really smart and I'm sure she thought the same of him. She fed his ego and then she became sick with lupus and need a savior and that's all it took for my husband. I'm sure he was already into MLC before they met in summer of 2013 and in his head even back then was looking for an open door. Somewhere in 2014 that door opened for him. I don't believe she is special in any sense of the word we would think of.
My H is giving up a great life for a could be boring one for him. We traveled a lot, had a lot of professional friends. They aren't going to have that and she doesn't have any background for him to make new professional friends. So, I don't see him going to OW as a means of a awesome, exciting new life. He might think that now but after the newest is over he is going to be bored and I do know he likes his trips. LOL! I do see this as an affair down. She's got more the gain from this then him other than their emotional connection right now.
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Unconditional,
No we are not reconnecting, in the sense you mean. We never really stopped seeing each other. I did go nc for a few weeks after I moved out, but after that we have pretty much seen each other almost every day.
I decided as long as there was no OP involved I'd would still see him. It's just too crazy to explain. Our relationship never went bad. After BD we remained in the house together. After D was final I moved out.
But it's like nothing has really changed, except we no longer live together. Neither one of us has seen anyone else.
I see my X as a very depressed person right now, still in his crisis but he has not worked on his issues that I can see. So I'm still leery of any future together. But I'm just going with the flow, no R talks and hoping one day he works himself out.
It has been almost 3 years now since BD and I see many good changes in him. The frantic replay actions are no longer there. But he is still not normal...what ever "normal" is. lol
Hang in there. Your H has a long ways to go...and so do you. You will change with this crisis, too.
Just take care of yourself and try not to obsess over it. It will only make you sick. It will end however it is supposed to end.
My only advice would be to be light and friendly when you are around him and no R talks...ever!! If he brings up something about your relationship or blames you for something just say...I'm sorry you feel that way and leave it alone. You can't control how he feels. Just accept that he feels that way right now. His head is a mess.
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Thanks Thunder,
I could see our relationship(other than I believe he's going to move from Georgia to New Hampshire where OW is) going in your direction. We are actually friendly with each other other than anything to do with our relationship which we don't talk about. I might have made a mistake in working him out the door but because of replay I just couldn't trust him with what he would do next. I hated that I wasn't comfortable our apartment and leaving it alone with him. You know how they get a thought then have to act on it and that was scary to me. Plus, I knew he's not going to like how the divorce is going to end and I just don't want him in the apartment putting blame on me or throwing out how horrible I am because he has to pay me this or that.
Other than that we are fine, he jokes around, talks to me, etc. But, I also know he despises me, hates me, and wants out because that is what he's head is telling me. So, he's kindness for now is mixed with manipulation, or was maybe mixed to stay in the apartment till divorce ended.
It does sound like your husband loves you or he's moving back to see the value you in there and will work toward reconnecting or is already doing that.
I'm working on me. Slowly, it's been sad but less stressful the last couple of weeks with H being with the OW in another state. When he gets back everything will start falling apart financially with him going to another place. I'm not sure he really wants to do that. I think it scares him and that is why he ran. He doesn't know how to be on his own.
I have worked out the be light, friendly and no R talks. I've been doing well with that. He doesn't bring up relationship talks, does give me much verbal monster unless I do something that he seems to think is unfair with divorce papers and life. Then it's usually a matter of minutes and he's over it. I totally know I can't control how he feel and I can't change him and I sure do know his head is a MESS.
Thanks Thunder!
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Just first seeing this thread...
My XW is still with OM, almost been a year. I don't know much of anything about their relationship, I chose not to ask questions. I hear bits and pieces from the kids and that's how I know he's still in the picture.
In the 7 months since divorce I have moved on with another woman who is awesome and I have grown to love her. It's a different kind of love than I had for my XW, but a much healthier and happier relationship.
XW seems to think her OM and I should be friends. I've known him and his buddies for 10 years. But I will never be friends with the dude who walked into my marriage crisis.
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Sadly Unconditional, most MLCers involve OP in the equation and that makes it harder and so much more complicated.
I thought about going out with someone else after BD, just because I was hurting so bad, but now I'm glad I didn't.
Neither of us has "tarnished" our marriage. I mean its over and we both have every right to see who ever we want now but we can both look back with some kind of pride that we didn't cheat on each other while married. I can look back at my marriage as a good one.
I hope your H can some day forgive himself for what he did. He WILL have regrets. You won't.
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she was there when he needed someone to talk to, she could have been anyone but she is the one who paid him attention at the time
This part of the OW thing infuriates me... whenever I had a problem, I would run to talk to him. For the last months before BD he was completely avoiding me, either coming home late from work or shutting himself away with his stupid videogames and tv... why, the one time he needed to talk to someone, didn't he turn to me? I was right there, trying to engage him, paying him all the attention in the world, wondering why he was ignoring me... grrrr.
It was about our R, our life together, and I was left completely in the dark and he talked to a stranger instead. It makes me want to scream it's so annoying. I was totally denied agency regarding my own life, even simply the right to know wtf was going on, to have an opinion... just like all of us LBS. How infuriating.
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she was there when he needed someone to talk to, she could have been anyone but she is the one who paid him attention at the time
This part of the OW thing infuriates me... whenever I had a problem, I would run to talk to him. For the last months before BD he was completely avoiding me, either coming home late from work or shutting himself away with his stupid videogames and tv... why, the one time he needed to talk to someone, didn't he turn to me? I was right there, trying to engage him, paying him all the attention in the world, wondering why he was ignoring me... grrrr.
It was about our R, our life together, and I was left completely in the dark and he talked to a stranger instead. It makes me want to scream it's so annoying. I was totally denied agency regarding my own life, even simply the right to know wtf was going on, to have an opinion... just like all of us LBS. How infuriating.
Gosh Dagolark. ... I couldn't have put it better myself. Exactly what my h did talk to another woman about how unhappy he allegedly was blah blah blah . It hurts to think ghat he couldn't talk to us he'd rather talk to a stranger. And leave us wondering what the hell has happened to our world ! Unfathomable . X
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You know, the same thing happened to me. I slowly quit sharing with W because she was unresponsive, then she told me after BD she could talk to OM about anything. She just about destroyed my confidence in my ability to communicate with people. And I'm a teacher.
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Mbib....and those same issues will work its way into your Ws and OMs R. Maybe she will see this and work on it, maybe she wont.
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Well, how can they communicate with us since we are responsible for all their unhappiness? ;) We need to remember that they have got to make us far worse than we really are in order to do what they're doing.
The OP is not a reflection of us or our marriage, they are a reflection of our spouses. I am confident that mine wound up with the person he wound up with because she seems to be very much like my MIL. I believe he's working through his FOO issues with this woman.
But as HT said! none of that really matters. The best thing that's happened to me in the 18 months since BD was asking him to move out--on Thanksgiving Day with the turkey in the over. Since then my life has become peaceful and sane. I've been able to let go of the emotional rope, and the anchor is in my boat. I don't anticipate he will try to come back because even though he dropped a lot of hints at wanting to when he still loved here, since them when divorce comes up he says he's "pretty sure". That used to give me hope. Now I just think he's too much of a coward to admit he wants out of the marriage. And guess what: I want out, too. For me its now just a matter of time.
UL, none of us knows where were going to be next week, next month, or next year. If anyone had told me I would want a divorce 6 months ago, I would have laughed at them. Now I am practically counting the days until we finally get through mediation and I can file. I've been married 27 years (and counting), and while 25.5 of those years were excellent, they are in the past. You will change. You will cycle. Ad you will come out of this stronger and better than you can ever have imagined.
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Thank Medusa!
I'm sure I will become stronger. What scares me is the most is I have nobody. My whole life was my H. I don't really have any family, we moved to another state so I don't have friends, I have a long term cancer that is living in me but hasn't cause much havoc that I will need to deal with at some point. I do need surgery but it looks like he has messed that up for now too.
I am a strong independent person who as taken care of her man for 30 years. He was extremely dependent on me to run our business and our household. He had his things he brought to the table but all the stuff I did was the complicated stuff so being on my own really will probably be much stressless. But, I love him, I don't trust him right now but I love who he was.
As far as H not talking to me. He did the same thing as your spouses. Just before the BD he quit coming home every night till late. I had already started reading about MLC so I didn't push him on what he was doing. Looking back though...he was already detaching knowing he was moving into a EA or was detaching because he was already in it. Either way he wasn't going to talk R because in his head it was already over. He and EA had already made themselves known to each other and I was dead to him. All he didn't to sort out was all the reason he was angry at me.
1. I didn't allow him to go to medical school when we were in our early 30's.
2. I stopped watching tv with him in the basement after our basement flooded twice and I just couldn't bear to go down there. Plus, I don't like the same shows he did and I could have made some changes in that. But we didn't watch much tv because we were always busy.
I crushed his dream. At least in his eyes. He didn't try to get himself in Medical school but it's my fault because he can't take responsibility for it.
Those are two reasons on the D papers.
Hoping at some point H gets himself back into town. Our company needs him to go back to work. He should have had a nice 11 days with his OW but now if he didn't bring her back with him we'll probably crash.
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she was there when he needed someone to talk to, she could have been anyone but she is the one who paid him attention at the time
This part of the OW thing infuriates me... whenever I had a problem, I would run to talk to him. For the last months before BD he was completely avoiding me, either coming home late from work or shutting himself away with his stupid videogames and tv... why, the one time he needed to talk to someone, didn't he turn to me? I was right there, trying to engage him, paying him all the attention in the world, wondering why he was ignoring me... grrrr.
It was about our R, our life together, and I was left completely in the dark and he talked to a stranger instead. It makes me want to scream it's so annoying. I was totally denied agency regarding my own life, even simply the right to know wtf was going on, to have an opinion... just like all of us LBS. How infuriating.
Gosh Dagolark. ... I couldn't have put it better myself. Exactly what my h did talk to another woman about how unhappy he allegedly was blah blah blah . It hurts to think ghat he couldn't talk to us he'd rather talk to a stranger. And leave us wondering what the hell has happened to our world ! Unfathomable . X
Thats b/c we know the real them. They are trying on a new "mask" with someone else they can pretend to be someone they are not. Dag- your MLCer is also a musician. Mine actually said to me right before BD that he likes to be on stage so he can pretend he is a "character".
The thing is you can't pretend forever. You can do it for a while but in the end the truth will come out.
They tell the ow they are unhappy with us. They probably even believe it. They are avoiding reality. They are trying to avoid that they are unhappy with themselves. MLC in a nutshell. :)
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Thats b/c we know the real them. They are trying on a new "mask" with someone else they can pretend to be someone they are not. Dag- your MLCer is also a musician. Mine actually said to me right before BD that he likes to be on stage so he can pretend he is a "character".
The thing is you can't pretend forever. You can do it for a while but in the end the truth will come out.
They tell the ow they are unhappy with us. They probably even believe it. They are avoiding reality. They are trying to avoid that they are unhappy with themselves. MLC in a nutshell. :)
I really believe this. H has told me over and over how he is never nervous around me, that he feels like he can say anything which makes me believe that he has the mask on for OW. He will look happy for a while with a new relationship(on OW2 now) but eventually calls me talking about his anxiety and how I seem so cheerful and together and he just gets worse.
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she was there when he needed someone to talk to, she could have been anyone but she is the one who paid him attention at the time
This part of the OW thing infuriates me... whenever I had a problem, I would run to talk to him. For the last months before BD he was completely avoiding me, either coming home late from work or shutting himself away with his stupid videogames and tv... why, the one time he needed to talk to someone, didn't he turn to me? I was right there, trying to engage him, paying him all the attention in the world, wondering why he was ignoring me... grrrr.
It was about our R, our life together, and I was left completely in the dark and he talked to a stranger instead. It makes me want to scream it's so annoying. I was totally denied agency regarding my own life, even simply the right to know wtf was going on, to have an opinion... just like all of us LBS. How infuriating.
Gosh Dagolark. ... I couldn't have put it better myself. Exactly what my h did talk to another woman about how unhappy he allegedly was blah blah blah . It hurts to think ghat he couldn't talk to us he'd rather talk to a stranger. And leave us wondering what the hell has happened to our world ! Unfathomable . X
Thats b/c we know the real them. They are trying on a new "mask" with someone else they can pretend to be someone they are not. Dag- your MLCer is also a musician. Mine actually said to me right before BD that he likes to be on stage so he can pretend he is a "character".
The thing is you can't pretend forever. You can do it for a while but in the end the truth will come out.
They tell the ow they are unhappy with us. They probably even believe it. They are avoiding reality. They are trying to avoid that they are unhappy with themselves. MLC in a nutshell. :)
They probably aren't discussing their problems with each other either. They're avoiding them altogether or dealing with them the same way as when they were with you.
In the beginning stage with OP (which is where a lot of your spouses are), it's all lovey dovey fantasy teenage gibberish.
In some of the longer term OP sitches, you can tell spouse isn't really happy, they are having more OP problems. Infatuation has worn off.
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In the beginning stage with OP (which is where a lot of your spouses are), it's all lovey dovey fantasy teenage gibberish.
In some of the longer term OP sitches, you can tell spouse isn't really happy, they are having more OP problems. Infatuation has worn off.
My H openly admitted that he would go back to OW for sex - he wasn't interested in a long term relationship but isn't going to pass on the invitation. This is probably why he has gone back to her 4 times.
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UL, you will be okay. I am a military wife and followed mine around the country. I didn't have many friends at BD. Now I have tons of them. I work from my home, so I'm out a lot in the evenings...just because I don't think its good for me to be alone for days on end.
It's very easy to obsess about the OW. Letting go of that is imperative to our healing. Removing them from our lives is also important, as far as I'm concerned. I honestly believe that we cannot heal if we don't let them go physically and emotionally. When they are in replay, they will do whatever they want for their own gratification and not care one whit about hurting anyone else. When I look back on the stuff mine did to me, I am appalled that I allowed myself to be treated the way I was. However, I had to go through all of that to reach the point where I am now. I had to suffer the way I did in order to find my strength and know how much I love myself, to fully realize and accept that I was never the problem.
UL, 11 days is nothing in the MLC landscape. Nothing. You already know the affairs last for years and sometimes do become permanent relationships. Again, that has nothing to do with us. If they want to be in a relationship based on lies and deceit, that's their choice.
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UL
i tried TWICE yesterday to post and lost both posts (through user error--uuugh)
all answers given here are right on point. i am 3+years into this thing they call MLC 8) and can tell you that the OP is the same as drugs or alcohol--just something the MLCer uses to make him/herself feel better.
and at some level, i think a lot of MLCers KNOW--they know what they've done is wrong, they know what they're giving up, they know they're leaving a wake of destruction, they know they have hurt the people who love them...they KNOW all these things at some level.
in the early days, about 3 months after BD i received a long email from my ex h. here's a quote from the long email, in which he indicated that he knew what he'd done, that he was weak and i was strong, and i would never be able to understand...he also mentioned that his emotional baggage had "swallowed him whole"--i have no idea what that emotional baggage was or is...because he chose not to share it with me. who knows whether he shared it with the OW or not...
I looked to a noncredable person to help pick me up. That
was so wrong. i am so sorry. I can prove that I am a better man.
And that you deserve better.
ultimately, this was just lip service because ex h's actions didn't match his words. the words, however, tell me that he KNEW AND KNOWS that what he did was wrong, wrong, wrong. and he CHOSE to run, rather than face the music, or the mirror, or hard work, or unpleasantness. HE CHOSE TO RUN. and he's still running.
i really have no idea whether OW is in the picture, and i don't really care with regard to ex h's relationship with her. just like medusa said, if he CHOOSES a relationship based on lies and deceit, HIS CHOICE. a lifelong friend of mine has always said this:
"if they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you"
and i think he's right on the money. so ex h will always be waiting for the other shoe to drop with OW, if he stays with her..
the part i HATE, HATE, HATE, is that this OW spends time with my girls. the fact that ex h has insinuated her into the lives of my children is abhorrent to me. and there's not a whole lot i can do about it other than to reinforce MY values and MY expectations with my girls all the time--kindness, generosity, honesty, accountability--we talk about these things ALL THE TIME. meanwhile back at the ranch, last i heard, OW was being all smarmy and nice to my 3d's--fixing them special meals and such--uuuugh. not real life folks. ex h and OW are obviously still living in head-up-assland...
and your h is too, i bet, living in that same land. i'm 3+ years into this, and there are other long-timers on the board who have been at it longer than i have who have wonderful insight they're willing to share.
at the end of the day, what helped me greatly was to really internalize what those on the board told me: THIS IS HIS CRISIS. my wonderful mentor, Ready2Transform, was instrumental, as were many others here, in helping me to understand that I really could not do anything to help my ex h. ultimately, we divorced, which, again unfortunately, was the safest choice for me due to the fact that ex h had BURNED THROUGH THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS and was continuing to spend money like a fool, but secretly...uuugh. don't want to go back to those days...
so, fooling ourselves? i don't know. what i DO know is that i would not want any kind of relationship like ex h's and OW's--a relationship that was based on sneaking around, meeting in hotel rooms, lying to EVERYONE...that's not how i want to live my life. i guess OW is fine with living that way, and so is ex h, which is very sad for all parties involved.
that's what i think about MLC these days--just sad, sad, sad.
take care of YOU!
onlyjo
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Thanks Onlyjo! You are so right! MY H is on the addiction side right now. There is nothing I can say or do and I just need to let him go down this track. He isn't to the point of discussing anything or admitting anything really.
I just received a text from him this morning that said he was coming to get more stuff, work stuff from the apartment. He has pretty much been missing for 2 weeks now and with OW in another state. I don't know if he brought her back with him. She was suppose to be here this week or next for awhile doing some sort of research with him. So, there is a chance he brought her back. What I hate the most is I believe she is controlling him and telling him what to do against me.
I would love to someday share my pain with him for closer. Now, isn't the time. Everything is all about him and it's tiring. I do also believe they know they are doing wrong. They might justify it but they know. My H is on a road of destruction and it's so sad to watch, hurtful when it's against me and very hard to swallow.
Thank you for sharing
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Twiceburnt, thank you for what you said. Your words made me feel better. You are very wise in all you write, and with your statement "She's merely a human sized pill or drink".
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They probably aren't discussing their problems with each other either. They're avoiding them altogether or dealing with them the same way as when they were with you.
Wow... this is an a-ha moment for me. That makes so much sense. It is called Escape and avoid and that's what he is doing. I can't imagine living with a man that has been married for 28+ years and not discussing the emotional turmoil. Thats just crazy.
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They probably aren't discussing their problems with each other either. They're avoiding them altogether or dealing with them the same way as when they were with you.
Wow... this is an a-ha moment for me. That makes so much sense. It is called Escape and avoid and that's what he is doing. I can't imagine living with a man that has been married for 28+ years and not discussing the emotional turmoil. Thats just crazy.
Likewise, in dealing the same way, they tend to try to escape and avoid OW by calling us or maybe other women to vent or talk about problems. Now OW is not the one to escape to, especially if they are living with them. Mine was calling to vent about his mom and sister. RCR touched on this in a section of one of the alienator articles.
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They probably aren't discussing their problems with each other either. They're avoiding them altogether or dealing with them the same way as when they were with you.
Wow... this is an a-ha moment for me. That makes so much sense. It is called Escape and avoid and that's what he is doing. I can't imagine living with a man that has been married for 28+ years and not discussing the emotional turmoil. Thats just crazy.
Around 6 months after BD I asked my H how he could talk to someone he hardly knew about his feelings yet he couldn't share them with me. His reply "What talk about emotions you mean? We don't". So yes, Escape and Avoid - with the OP too.
3+ years down the track I can see quite clearly what OW gets from my H. Exactly what I was getting towards the end before BD. A shell of the man he once was who is escaping with work and alcohol. He is recently spending more and more time on the weekends with our D12 (who will have nothing to do with OW) and I wonder when he and OW spend time together at all.
I have said from the beginning of this mess, 'same game, different players'. I don't want that man I had in those last months. She can keep him.
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my h told me last night he has tried to talk to the ow about emotional things and she makes fun of him for it so he doesn't bother anymore, he saves that for me now i guess.
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Just my observation, and what's going on in my MLCers crazy ass relationship.
They do not live together,spend almost no holidays together. They however do work together. But cannot be openly out there with the relationship( or what ever the hell it is)
Because, she is married, with a kid. Has no plans from what I understand to divorce. Her husband told me this when I made a phone call to inform him his wife was a wh**e
He expected me to live the same as they do. She works, he stays home takes care of house,chores,kid. All she has to do is work, and screw my husband.ohh and run off every so often to vacation, or go lay up at a hotel for a few days.
Yes, my husband has given up everything,and I mean everything to live like that. But still dosent want a divorce..... Why I have no clue!!
So with that being said, my point is. They are both living in a friggin fantasy world! No bills to argue about, no chores to argue about, no kids to raise together, no seeing someone throw thier guts up or have diarrhea(haha) no anything normal! It's a freaking fantasy. it's not normal every day life
So how does a fantasy ever get old??? As my friend put it. He ain't home yet??? Well, guess that tw*t ain't got old yet........ :o
So my question is, does it make a difference if they live together, or just sneak around whenever they can......I think it does make a difference. He's going on 2 years with this skank, I made him leave 10 months ago. Still does not want to talk divorce, still pays the bills ( thank God) but still will not talk about relationship or coming home....... It's a sad thing to watch a man go from a good good husband, daddy, hard worker. To this..... Whatever the hell it is.
And while I do blame him for the most part.....I'd still like to beat the OW nasty fat, dumb ass!! (God forgive me) :-[
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Living together supposedly speeds up the process and kills the fantasy faster. Hoping so because mine has been with Granny-Ow for 6 months now.
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So my question is, does it make a difference if they live together, or just sneak around whenever they can......I think it does make a difference. He's going on 2 years with this skank, I made him leave 10 months ago. Still does not want to talk divorce, still pays the bills ( thank God) but still will not talk about relationship or coming home....... It's a sad thing to watch a man go from a good good husband, daddy, hard worker. To this..... Whatever the hell it is.
I think it matters. My H has referred to his weekends away with OW as a vacation from reality! Which he escapes to every weekend :o He doesn't want a relationship - he doesn't want any responsibilities.
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Searching,you are right! They have no responsibilities.and that's just how they want it!!
As much as I would hate it,I wish they lived together.thwy won't ever know the true person they are with.
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WTGB,
I hope he wakes up soon, maybe a good dose of reality is what they need!
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Kat--I laughed so hard I almost fell off my couch...
As my friend put it. He ain't home yet??? Well, guess that tw*t ain't got old yet........ :o
the whole thing behind these people we used to know (or MLCers) is that they DON'T HAVE A REALITY. they don't know who they are, they have no identity, they're "unhappy" with their lives (with us) so they think there's something out there that's better. maybe so, maybe not...which is where UL's question comes in--are we (the LBS) kidding ourselves????
if only they could "find their reality" without all dragging everyone down with them, breaking up families, and lying, cheating, and stealing...
sigh.
onlyjo
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Haha and the questions comes back around! :D
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So how does a fantasy ever get old??? As my friend put it. He ain't home yet??? Well, guess that tw*t ain't got old yet........ :o
So my question is, does it make a difference if they live together, or just sneak around whenever they can......I think it does make a difference. He's going on 2 years with this skank, I made him leave 10 months ago. Still does not want to talk divorce, still pays the bills ( thank God) but still will not talk about relationship or coming home....... It's a sad thing to watch a man go from a good good husband, daddy, hard worker. To this..... Whatever the hell it is.
And while I do blame him for the most part.....I'd still like to beat the OW nasty fat, dumb ass!! (God forgive me) :-[
Kat0465,
I just want to say I love your spirit! God bless you.
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Yes, I do think they realize somewhere deep down what they are doing is wrong, but the "high" they get from this new fantasy life is too strong currently.
I can't remember if I posted this already or not, but a few weeks ago when my W admitted to the latest OM, and after I had calmed down a bit, I went out and basically told her off. I know it probably wasn't the right thing to say, but I could have cared less at that point.
I said, "You know what, you might be destroying me financially, absolutely obliterated me emotionally, but you haven't killed me. In a few years after I've rebuilt my life, I'll be better than ever and happier than ever. You'll be lonely and just as miserable as you are now."
For the first time since BD #2 in May, she started to cry. I saw some shame and sadness in her eyes for once instead of anger, and she replied, "You're probably right, and I'll be happy for you". Then I just walked away. I haven't said much to her since. She will come home from work and rant to me about how she hates her job, etc. I just listen and try to understand. Then she leaves not long afterwards for the bar and OM. I wonder if she rants about work to her OM? I doubt it, she probably rants about me only.
Last weekend, my S was on a trip with his friend. When he got back on Saturday, he kept trying to call and text his mom. Then he came crying to me because she turned the phone off on him. He knows that when it goes straight to voice mail it is off - it was going to VM on the previous calls. He asked me why she did that and won't even text him back. I lied and said I don't know, her phone battery probably died. Oddly enough, that is the excuse she gave him when she got home eventually. Her lies worked when he was 6. Now that he turned 11, they don't work so well anymore.
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I agree with what you said twiceburnt, I think they do 'know' but choose to ignore it as the fantasy life and bright lights are probably more enticing than ordinary everyday life filled with normal problems!
I'm so glad you said what you did to your wife. Hopefully it will lodge in her head somewhere!
So sorry about your dear son though! Good thing he has you, a decent, loving dad who's there for him.
X
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I didn't see anything wrong with what TB said. Good job.
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just had to come back here and read some of these posts--
posted on my thread about how 3d's celebrated ex MIL's bday last night w/ex mr onlyjo and OW at OW's house.
makes me insane that ex h drags my girls into situations like that, and ridiculous that ex MIL condones the behavior
then again, as i read the posts on this thread--they're all right on the money!!!
twiceburnt--i and NC w/my ex, so will never get to quote you 8)--your statement was spot on. and your w knows you're right--she's not ready to accept it/still running
even if ex mr onlyjo and OW end up living happily ever after, i know for a fact it's no kind of "happy" i'd settle for.
so i had a moment, and now that moment has passed--and i'm done with it, in part thanks to you fine people here on this board!!!!!
onlyjo
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That was a superb truth dart in my opinion TB! I need to keep that in my memory banks in case I need it. I hope you don't mind :)
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=5664.0