Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: denjef31 on November 28, 2016, 06:11:26 PM
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Okay, started a new thread since this seems to be a popular thread.
From old thread trying to respond to a few post. Someone asked when or how do you reconnect if you do NC. I didn't do no contact as I am not a fan of it and I only advocate it when the situation involves abuse of some kind. For those LBS who find themselves getting monster behavior from your spouse I sympathize and I understand why the decision for NC was initiated.
Now what I am about to say may not be what some want to hear as we are all here hoping to reconcile and restore our marriage, however, having said that I firmly believe our spouse has to want to reconnect at some point. They have to want to stop running, want to stop inappropriate and angry behavior. If you have a spouse who has went months without calling to just check up on you, or do the quick stop by then maybe it is not time to rebuild just yet. Maybe they believe it is for the best and they are firm in their belief that they are better off.
I would go weeks without calling my H when I was depressed. I thought about him everyday but I was happy as I was. Even when I decided to leave OM alone, I still did not immediately reach out or try to start rebuilding with my H. I still had work to do on myself. I still was figuring me out. After weeks, maybe even a month or so of H not calling me hoping that I would reach out he would give in and call or just stop by. I was happy to see him, and I enjoyed the interaction as long as he kept it light. Meaning we would laugh and joke, talk about current news, comedy, flirt, a silly joke etc. It is not easy reaching out so I would say to start off by a simple call to say hello, have a purpose for calling to relay some information, then simply ask how have you been? Let them answer then you promptly end the call. Be in a jolly mood and don't linger on that phone trying to make a conversation out of nothing, or gasp let the dead air linger on the call.
You will have to do this several times, as they have to get comfortable talking to you without fighting. They will be on guard and not receptive at first. But if you are consistent they should come around. Then you start eventually following this up by offering them to come in when they pick kids up, ask them if they want something to drink, update them on the kids, then smile as you wave to them goodbye out the door. Again don't let it seem like you are trying to make conversation, or trying to prolong conversation. At this stage you are just be friendly and being consistent that you are open and receptive to positive interaction with them.
If you are thinking after doing this a couple of time they will start being nice and you will be friends you will be mistaken. They do not trust you, it takes time to rebuild a friendship, it takes time for a person to let their guard down, learn to open up, and talk to you. So please do not expect immediate results, and please don't expect to see any positive signs that this is working at all. They will be suspicious of you so they will be questioning to themselves your sincerity. They will wonder what has changed? Why are you trying to be nice? Consistency pays off!
At some point they will start to smile, speak to you, be happy to see you although not verbally telling you that, then they will start to linger around the house, initiate conversation, and start to share things with you. The friendship starts growing, and trust is being rebuilt. Now would not be the time to consider if relationship talk should come up or the status of OM/OW. Keep working on positive interaction and the rest will follow. Gradually slowly but surely. What you are essentially doing is replacing OM/OW, your spouse started confiding in OM/OW because they were nice, receptive and willing to listen without expectations( at first), you became the nag. You have to reverse the roles. Let OM/OW nag, and you become the friend.
Denjef31
Previous Thread: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412 (http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412)
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Great advice!! Thank you....how are you Den?
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Very good! Got a 92 on my pharmacology test today and this 12 week quarter is coming to a close soon. I thought I would pop in and catch up. Thanks for asking Butterfly, I guess I should be asking how are you doing?
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You're doing so well in school, that's so awesome! I'm also glad to hear you're good as well. I'm doing okay . I can honestly say each day gets better and better. The more I get a life and detach the more I feel good about myself . I still miss my H and see him once a week and talk on the phone once a week but sometimes I think that's when I might cycle . But when I'm by myself I seem to be just fine . The holidays are bringing up some emotions but this year I'm going to spend it with my son and grandson . It's nice to be able to count my blessings these days . Thank you so much for asking ! I have to tell you , this thread has been so beneficial ! Thanks again for all of your advice and for being so open!! I hope you get some rest :-) hugs!
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Thanks Denjaf,
Your perspective has helped me so much. I really appreciate your words of wisdom
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Attaching x
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Congrats on the Pharma Exam! WooHoo! Party time for Christmas!
(https://smileyshack.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/spartying_100-179gif.gif)
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Congrats on the Pharma Exam! WooHoo! Party time for Christmas!
(https://smileyshack.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/spartying_100-179gif.gif)
THanks UM!!!! Studying for a test tomorrow and another on Monday. It never ends but I am ready!!! ;)
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Denjaf,
Congratulations! You're amazing :)
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UKStander,
Replying to your post from the other thread. You wanted to know more about the 20 year old me popping back up during my depression. Well when I was 20 I didn't have any responsibilities. I would party all night, sleep on a friend's couch, go home shower, and get ready for the next party night that included clubbing, drinking, socializing with people I had just met as well as old friends. Not being very dependable or honoring commitments. Nor was I good at keeping a job during that time. When I was depressed, I felt and saw some behavior that resonated with me from my early 20's. I hadn't had a desire to go to a club, or party in over 15 years but as soon as the depression hit I suddenly felt almost like a mourning come over me for what was, what I have missed out on.
I tried to make up for what I felt I didn't get to do or experience that I saw some of the young people doing now. I started going back out to clubs, drinking heavily, driving while drunk, staying out all night, all my plans now involved what I wanted to do and did not include my kids. I felt for the last 15 years my identity was not my identity. I had sacrificed myself to be a mom. I met a ton of young people that I befriended and found myself trying to fit in with the young crowd, keep up with what they were doing, dressing more inappropriate to fit in. When I say clubs I mean the clubs where the 20 year olds can get in, a place where a mature crowd wouldn't be caught dead in.
You just don't go from devoted mom to clubber unless something is seriously wrong. So for a period of time that was my life, I didn't worry about the kids. Some days I couldn't even get out of the bed, I was hurting but I didn't know why I felt like that. I just knew I needed to make some changes to make myself happy. My initial choice to numb the pain was chasing my youth. When that excitement wore off, I chose to be friendly with OM. They all wore off just as quickly as they started, and then a lightbulb went off and I took a hard look at my choices. Realized I still wasn't happy with myself. Realized that clubbing was not making me happy, and nor was OM. In fact I felt worse because I was starting to not recognize myself.
That's when I decided to stop running, I decided that the life I had was better than the life I was living. I realized it's okay to be a great devoted mom, it's okay to be comfortable and married. I no longer wanted to be single or live the single life, I no longer yearned for the admiration of men. I realized what I had all along was all that I needed. All my adult life I struggled with still wanting to be single, and wanting to be admired and drooled over by men. When the depression lifted, the feelings I have struggled with for so long also lifted and there are gone. I do not need nor do I want to be admired by other men. I only want the affection and admiration from my H. Those feelings I struggled with for so long stems from love and affection I felt that I didn't get when I was a child from my parents. My parents were older parents when they had me and had divorced . My mother was suffering mental health issues at that time, and a part time dad who didn't live in the home.
I felt pretty much on my own growing up, my mom was too sick to feed me, take care of me properly. I survived but not without suffering feelings of being unwanted, abandon and not loved. My mom still is sick but I see things differently, she did the best she could do despite her mental illness. My dad and I were stronger and solid as ever before he died. It's a journey I had to go on, I am stronger than ever. I feel I can handle and take on whatever comes my way. The love I have now sustains me, but it wasn't always that way.
Denjef31
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Attaching and Thank You Denjef.
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Denjaf,
Once again, thank you for your perspective. Maybe my H will be able to work through his own issues and come back stronger. I hope so. I am trying very hard to give him the time and space he needs to do that. The problem is, he is filling up every minute of his life with work and playing, so he doesn't have to work through the pain. So it will take time. In the meantime, I am working on being happy with ME. At least that is someone I will always have.
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denjef, Thank you for being so active on this site and helping all of us LBS see some insight of the MLC. I can't imagine my H ever being sorry or wanting the beautiful life he had, with family, children and myself. H shows no sign of caring or wanting any part of M. I see some of what you say, when I speak to H. When I flew home a few times H was up and down. H life is very twisted and H is miserable, but happy with OW. Makes no sense to me anymore.
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Wow Den all of what you just described sounds just like my W. I haven't posted on this thread yet but I read it all the time, it has been very beneficial for all of us. Thank you for taking the time to rehash your experience.
My W is currently slowing down with the Replay behavior but she like you loved the attention of men and also had a mother who did not take care of her when she was young. She has the feelings of being unwanted/ not worthy.
Anyways I think your advice is fantastic and great job on your schooling in Pharmacology.
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You are all welcome, if it helps any of you then I am happy to do it.
Strength,
Oh I wish I could give you a big hug that is the nurse in me reading your responses and feel you are in a lot of pain still. You must stop feeling sorry for yourself, you must stop worrying about if H wants to come back to the marriage or not someday. I cant stress to you enough that you have more control than you think you do. Your progress also determines H ability to progress thru the tunnel. H does not determine your happiness or lack of it. Your H is sick and he is lost.
Stop worrying about what you think he "feels" because you will never know for certain until he decides to share that with you. What you do know is that your H is off in a mental crisis right now and not choosing the best way to handle it. Despite all that you are still breathing, still living, still surviving. At some point you do have to start living as if he will never come back. Not saying that to encourage you to give up but I am saying this because you need to get to a place that gives you a position of strength.
Your strength, will draw your H to that. We are looking for someone to save us, to help us help ourselves. If you are a mess then who is that person for your spouse? If I am picking up that from a post imagine what your H has picked up when he has seen or talked to you? Feeling sorry for yourself or grieving your marriage just sends them running, he will not want to talk to you he just not in a place where he can handle the guilt that comes with it.
A day without your spouse is too long, yet depression can go on for years. Unfortunately depression doesn't work on the LBS spouse time frame, and some of you are expecting or wanting to much from a person who is emotionally and mentally unavailable to anybody. Time drags and moves very slow for the LBS, and stands still for the MLC'er. I know some of you are thinking and feeling how can my spouse show love to another person, how can they be there for someone else while abandoning me and/or our children?
The reason they are able to do that is because they have checked out emotionally and mentally. They have decided unconsciously to leave that life (the life with you) behind. They want something new, something different, a fresh start. Many people think about starting over, or if they could do things differently. Very few people make changes to really try to start over, but for the MLC'er that is a requirement. They must start over. As painful as that is to read it is the truth. Even if your spouse married Mr. or Mrs. Perfect this still would have happened to them. This is not about you or the kids. You are just a casualty of twisted thinking.
The sooner you can get past the hurt and betrayal of it all the quicker you can get to true healing. Things can change so quickly and suddenly with depressed people, stop thinking about the time that has lapsed that you are not with him and he is with OW and start thinking about the time that has lapsed and you have not truly lived for yourself. Strength you will get where you need to be it just takes time but it starts with changing how you deal with things that are done to you. You can look at it as betrayal or learning experiences. Maybe perhaps from all of this the MLC'er and the LBS are being taught a lesson and from this comes growth. Do not mourn what was, but embrace what can be. You decide the future!
Denjef31
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Wow Denjaf, thank you again for your words. I know you wrote that for Strength, but it sure hit home with me, and I'm sure, many of us. I am trying to find my place of peace and growth for ME. I learn so much from you, and everyone, and I appreciate it so much. I WILL make it through this. And I WILL be okay. No matter what!
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Wow!! I really needed that post you wrote for strength today. I have been struggling with how to move forward today. Good stuff!!
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Right on Denjef!!! I am telling you the years that I have been reading here this is got to be the best thread yet ! In the beginning yes it's very hard and painful you can barely get up off the floor but once you start to realize all of this – amen!!!! Thank you for this unique perspective that is a blessing for all of us LBSs. I can't begin to tell you how much I look forward to seeing what's posted next here and it is a huge boost to my self-confidence and actually allows me to feel sorry for my H rather than angry . It gives me a direction in which I should pray , you are a blessing to us all Denjef!!
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Strength....
I also want to reach out and give you a great big hug ! And yes I absolutely agree with everything Denjef I said but in the same token I'll share this. I'm not sure if it was on this thread or on another but it was mentioned that for every year you were married it takes a month of grieving before you start taking care of your life . I did the math for myself and funny enough it was right on . And even reading other threads I've noticed the change in people at the appropriate time. If I remember correctly you were married for 35 years and bomb drop was only so many months ago , so you have a little bit more to go . So I'm gonna reach out and give you a great big cyber hug and tell you we all understand what you're feeling and going through and the devastation!! Hang in there and believe me everything that everyone is telling you is the truth . Time does heal and everything that Denjef is telling you is extremely helpful ! I also see that Thunder is your mentor , she is awesome hand knowledgeable and has a lot to offer . Press in and press on!!!! HUGS!!
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Denjaf: Yes, Thank you.
Strength: Please know we all care and also know what you are going through. We will get there together on this journey. Hugs to you!
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Many thanks to all of you for the love and support. It is so helpful to me in every way. Denjef, I am also a RN with so much compassion for people. I have always been a righteous and practical person. I always cared for people and never wanted to hurt anyone. I know I have to let my H go. It is best for me and the children. You have made so many of the MLC issues more clear to me. I have read so much but sometimes we get lost and caught up on the facts. I am so happy that you are piecing your life together. I look forward to the day when I wake up and have a day with no thoughts of H. I don't know what I would do without my family and children. This site has given me a chance to vent so I don't keep putting the burden on them. Am I right in believing that the longer the H stays away, the slimmer the chance of recovery of M? I worry daily about H being sick because that is who I am. It is heartbreaking that OW is taking care of H and H cares about no-one else being with him. But, I pray to the Lord for guidance and direction. I can no longer reach out when H does not want me. When MLC'er wakes up do they have any remorse for what they have done? Does it change the relationship of the OW? I can't imagine a 40 year difference in age is going to work. OW must have some issues of her own. I am into this 2 1/2+years, maybe longer when I look back to some of his behavior changes. I am so blessed to have all of you to talk too. Again, my many thanks and love.
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Denjef - I want to add my thanks too, you're really helping me to understand what is going on with my H, and that's helping me to be more empathic rather than angry
Thank you
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Wow!!!! Just wow Strength. I totally understand more than ever. Here is the thing, yes when we have an awakening the dynamics of how we see all this partying, cheating, abandoning, and running changes. We no longer want to run, party, and usually we do not want to cheat. If you read back I talked a little about once I had my awakening whatever feelings I had for OM evaporated into thin air. I begin to see him as an annoyance, some one who was a reminder of bad choices I had made. A reminder of how immature and silly I was. It pretty much goes just as the article RCR wrote. Once the awakening occurs the dynamics of the relationship changes the infatuation has worn off and reality sets in. I did this, and I noticed when my H had his awakening a few months ago things begin to change.
The remorse you are looking for is there, even when you are getting monster and withdrawal. It is always there but hidden. Some will share the remorse and guilt and ask for understanding and forgiveness like I did, while others will simply want to go back to the way things were or carry on without acknowledging their wrongdoing. No you would not be correct to say the longer he is away the chances of reconciliation are slim. People can be away from each other for years and find their way back to each other. If it's true love, it doesn't die. It can remain hidden and buried deep within but it never dies.
I do not know how you are able to function right now at work but I will say a special prayer for you sister nurse, to give you the strength, patience, courage, and understanding that is needed during your journey. You must find a way to rise above all of this. Do not let that dark place that your H resides in overtake you too. I know you will persevere!
Denjef31
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Thank you denjef for sharing your story. I was very happy to read this:
No you would not be correct to say the longer he is away the chances of reconciliation are slim. People can be away from each other for years and find their way back to each other. If it's true love, it doesn't die. It can remain hidden and buried deep within but it never dies.
There has been lots of debate about this but there is really no data one way or the other that can support that the longer they are in crisis the less likely they are to return.
I believe that MLC can last for years and each individual and their situation is different.
So have patience and allow your spouse whatever time it will take for them to heal. There are no guarantees in life, I think we all learned that lesson very clearly with MLC.
I too am a nurse, have been for 41 years and even though I am retired, I still am a nurse.....I loved all the years of my career..it truly was a wonderful life!
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Wow I am loving all the nurses on this board!!!! So elated it really warms my heart in so many ways. I do believe in true love, I believe that MLC'er can be distracted and "think" they have fallen inlove but a person who is depressed cant truly accept and reciprocate true love. It is nothing more than a symptom that gives an emotional high just like a physical substance would. Once it wears off as all things do, the real feelings that were buried comes to the surface.
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The remorse you are looking for is there, even when you are getting monster and withdrawal. It is always there but hidden. Some will share the remorse and guilt and ask for understanding and forgiveness like I did, while others will simply want to go back to the way things were or carry on without acknowledging their wrongdoing.
I have found this to be true as well. My H never showed remorse to me, he just wanted to forget everything. I asked our counselor one time if he saw any remorse in my H (they had had some one on one time) and he said yes, most definitely. Maybe he thought I would think less of him as a man or thought it was a sign of weakness. As long as I knew it was there, I was ok.
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Thank you for responding. It takes a special person to be a nurse. That role tells a lot about a person. My H and I worked together our entire career of almost 40 years. I am not working right now because moving to another State, I have to get my license changed. I have been putting it on hold, hoping I would not need one here. I am always thinking about getting home. I know that is wrong, and I am getting better at it. I may even take a part time job doing something totally different. If I am starting a new life, then maybe it would be good to start doing something else involving people. One day at a time is all that any of us can do. I pray for the day my H awakens to reality. The most intelligent, family oriented, faith driven man I have ever met. And yet, everyone sees H as a loser right now. H has embarrassed himself in the community but does not seem to care at all. H is proud to have OW beside him.
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And yet, everyone sees H as a loser right now. H has embarrassed himself in the community but does not seem to care at all. H is proud to have OW beside him.
Hard to understand that isn't it? I probably never will.
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Thank you again Den. All of this is so helpful and inspirational.
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Denjef31
My h and i have had very little contact in the last year. We went for 8 months without seeing each other and only texted a couple of timez. He made contact with me. He came to talk in august. He said that he is not happy, doesnt desire the ow, dont like her kid, missez me, thinks of me, been wrestling with his feelings for months, and is pretty sure he wants to work things out. We slept together that day. We had little contact that whole month. He told me the last time i seen or talked ro him, sept. 5 that i would have divorce papers in 2 weeks. 2 hours later when he was leaving he kissed me and said he was confused again and did not know wants. I was wondering how much of tjis should i believe. If he was just playing with my head and heart why do it after 8 months of nothing?
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bluerose,
At least your is confused. Mine never was, to my knowledge.
I hope he gets his head on straight. Just don't pursue him, let him come to you. I also would not have relationship talks with him. Just keep conversation light.
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Thunder, I am going to take that to mean that it is good my h is confused? I am just trying to find something positive LOL...
He says he is wrestling with doing the right thing (coming home) and doing what he wants. But he doesn't know what he wants. He doesn't love me blah blah blah. He never considers me though and doesn't really want to spend time with me.
I feel bad for all of us that our marriages end this way - or may end this way.
D - I really like reading this thread. Thank you.
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I guess yes, I meant it in a positive way. He isn't completely in the tunnel yet. lol
I don't think my H had any doubts in his head from the beginning. He decided he wanted a D and never wavered.
He maybe had doubts BEFORE BD, but not afterwards.
Funny I remember him telling me he was giving it 2 weeks to see if anything (of course meaning me) changed. :o
It sure would have been nice to share that with me. ::)
Can't very well change anything when you had no clue there was a problem. Of course nothing changed. :o
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Yes, it would be nice if we had been give a heads up instead of BD.
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Strength, Oh my Lord. My H said the same thing to me - "You have to change, and I don't see it happening" When I asked H was I needed to change H could not come up with anything. I was always the wonderful, perfect wife. Hmmm!!!!
I know my H is very confused about everything. H tells me lately he is miserable and life is twisted. Where does that put me? My H has dragged the D on for one year, and I am still working on finishing it. Can't have wife and OW. It is all too frustrating. I am not one to do well with limbo.
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Confusion was Mr J's middle name until he was deep into the tunnel. His mood and what he wanted would change from day to day, or even hour to hour.
I had to change my height. I was too short. Never mind I was roughly the same height I had always been (I was 2 or 3 cm shorter at 18, when we become a couple). Because people can change their height. ::)
I not even too short. I have the average height of a Portuguese woman my age, 1.65m (5′ 5″). But, hey, who cares, Mr J was upset because I was too short. ::)
MLCers are nuts. Slow Fade's husband problem was that the dog was too fat. ::)
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H's always find something wrong with us. H's should look at themselves. My H tells me I am getting old. H should look in the mirror. He believes he is like his OW. LOL!!! I know who I am and H can think whatever H wants to about me.. I know the truth.
When do they go through the tunnel and what do you see with H?
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Strength, I have to say that you have picked the right name. I really believe your moniker should be The Rock. You are solid in your stand. So glad that you're here so that you can get the support and encouragement that will keep you going at this time.
Denjef,
More Questions. I think I know the answers, but I'm really curious to see if I'm on the right track.
I know that he's doing everything that he can to torment us and it's not working. So now he's playing around with the support payment for this month. Needlessly to say, he hasn't transfered it yet. I wrote a joint email to him and my lawyer asking if there was a problem. So here goes:
-Why isn't he tired of all the game playing, and is this yet another way to try to force me to break NC? And if it is, what is he trying to achieve?
-Both he and the AD have taken each other's pictures off of their FB profiles after my MD unfriended the XH. Any thoughts on why? ( I blocked them both last year from all of my FB pages, they read my Wordpress blog, the flag were they live shows up from time to time, and he's been stalking me in other ways digitally as well.)
-They're both still watching MD FB page ( people you may know still has them popping up ). What's that all about?
-Now he's late with the deposit, after trying unsuccessfully to start a fight with the 2 younger ones via text. Is all of this tied to him wanting attention? And we are no longer willing to deal with him?
-He's now broke after starting a business with the AD. Is it possible that that's having an affect on their relationship, and he's trying to start conflicts with us, so that he can maintain his relationship with her?
These are just some questions that have been rolling around in my head. I don't have any real contact with him, but the kids are D&D so it he's been really trying to provoke them lately. Just wanted to have a little insight to know what I and the kids need to do next.
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Thunder,
I hope he does too. It has been almost 2 years since bd, but i can see noe that it has been in between 3 or 4 years. I dont pursue him. He contacts me. I dont bring up relationship talks. He does. I have read thatit gets worse before it gets better. He is definitely getting worse, especially with the kids. Heavily drinking and hanging around questionAble people. I was just wondering about the thing's he said to me in august. I believe he did mean it at the moment. I also think that maybe years of taking unprescribed prescription drugs that it has caught up with him. I always thought he was taking them occasionally for his back. I now question that maybe it was more of a problem with him rhan i thought.
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My3girls - thank you so much. It is a work in progress. Every day is a challenge but we have no choice as LBS. We are all living a life we never asked for or wanted. We never expected any of this. I am living one day at a time and praying to God that he leads me in the right direction. Not a day goes by that I don't miss my H, but he leaves me no choice other than D. I cannot live the life H has chosen and never would. It is disgusting. I pray for everyone who is going through so much pain. I ask why everyday.
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Attaching
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(Attaching)
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Attaching
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what does attaching mean?
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Sorry all I been busy with school, and my H crazy MLC. I will go thru this thread to see if any questions for me. I love people are chiming in giving their thoughts as we all learn from each other :)
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Hi denjef,
I've been reading and just wanted to say thank you so much for your input.
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Strength, I have to say that you have picked the right name. I really believe your moniker should be The Rock. You are solid in your stand. So glad that you're here so that you can get the support and encouragement that will keep you going at this time.
Denjef,
More Questions. I think I know the answers, but I'm really curious to see if I'm on the right track.
I know that he's doing everything that he can to torment us and it's not working. So now he's playing around with the support payment for this month. Needlessly to say, he hasn't transfered it yet. I wrote a joint email to him and my lawyer asking if there was a problem. So here goes:
-Why isn't he tired of all the game playing, and is this yet another way to try to force me to break NC? And if it is, what is he trying to achieve?
-Both he and the AD have taken each other's pictures off of their FB profiles after my MD unfriended the XH. Any thoughts on why? ( I blocked them both last year from all of my FB pages, they read my Wordpress blog, the flag were they live shows up from time to time, and he's been stalking me in other ways digitally as well.)
-They're both still watching MD FB page ( people you may know still has them popping up ). What's that all about?
-Now he's late with the deposit, after trying unsuccessfully to start a fight with the 2 younger ones via text. Is all of this tied to him wanting attention? And we are no longer willing to deal with him?
-He's now broke after starting a business with the AD. Is it possible that that's having an affect on their relationship, and he's trying to start conflicts with us, so that he can maintain his relationship with her?
These are just some questions that have been rolling around in my head. I don't have any real contact with him, but the kids are D&D so it he's been really trying to provoke them lately. Just wanted to have a little insight to know what I and the kids need to do next.
This is a control issue he has, he feels he has lost control of you and the kids. All of this is just manipulation on his part but trying to not out himself. Think about it, he is not going to tell you he miss talking to you, being a part of your life, being a more active parent in the children's life. So what does he do? Play little mind games and procrastinate to piss you off because it is the only power he has.
I would just keep ignoring him unless it is about the kids. For some reason he is finding it hard to admit to himself why he cant completely let go and move completely on. It may appear that he has moved on and he has physically but not emotionally. There are still lingering feelings residing within and that's why you see the games being played. This is how he chooses to deal with them and let them manifest. It's almost a situation of I don't want you but I don't want anybody else to have you either. He still needs to simmer in the pot as he is not fully cooked. Still too much game playing on his end.
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what does attaching mean?
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Denjef, I'm curious from your experience what happens to a MLCer who makes a "big" decision that is either difficult or impossible to reverse. For example, marrying OW, moving far away, having a baby with OW, etc.
Would the MLCer in this situation need to recover and come out of MLC outside of the context of the LBS? Would the LBS likely never see any resolution?
My estranged husband got OW pregnant eight months post bomb drop. I thought it would end the crisis (if not prevent a reconciliation) but he has instead become angrier and more controlling toward me. He actually seems so volatile I feel stressed out sending him simple text messages.
If you had made a very permanent decision in the fog what do you think might have been your response and how might that have changed the outcome of your crisis?
Thank you!
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Denjef
Firstly I want to thank you again for everything you have shared.
I have done a huge amount of research collating hundreds of pages of MLC views/experiences/reflections (some I have posted on here) and where there are comforting similarities between some of them, there are so many things to learn by reading new experiences as people articulate their experiences in different ways.
But I do have some questions for you, if you don't mind?
You mention your awakening and I have read through your past posts and cannot find the details of this (forgive me if I have missed it)
But
What caused your awakening?
Was it sudden?
What did it feel like to you did you feel like your old self, did you feel threatened by it, did you feel more able to cope...etc?
and what did you start to do, what was your behaviour like in the days, weeks months following your awakening?
Thanks again and I wish you and your H the very best xx
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Denjef, I'm curious from your experience what happens to a MLCer who makes a "big" decision that is either difficult or impossible to reverse. For example, marrying OW, moving far away, having a baby with OW, etc.
Would the MLCer in this situation need to recover and come out of MLC outside of the context of the LBS? Would the LBS likely never see any resolution?
If you had made a very permanent decision in the fog what do you think might have been your response and how might that have changed the outcome of your crisis?
Thank you!
I was wondering the same thing. Mine with the whole using the kids, and AD to try to provoke me post Divorce. This idea that they don't want us, but don't want anyone else to be with us either. What causes this confusion? Since I have a boomerang clinger it's really getting irritating. Do they come to believe that there is a point of no return, or do they continue to live in denial?
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Denjef
Firstly I want to thank you again for everything you have shared.
I have done a huge amount of research collating hundreds of pages of MLC views/experiences/reflections (some I have posted on here) and where there are comforting similarities between some of them, there are so many things to learn by reading new experiences as people articulate their experiences in different ways.
But I do have some questions for you, if you don't mind?
You mention your awakening and I have read through your past posts and cannot find the details of this (forgive me if I have missed it)
But
What caused your awakening?
Was it sudden?
What did it feel like to you did you feel like your old self, did you feel threatened by it, did you feel more able to cope...etc?
and what did you start to do, what was your behaviour like in the days, weeks months following your awakening?
Thanks again and I wish you and your H the very best xx
Well I thought I wrote about it, maybe I didn't. My awakening it was very sudden. I pretty much was a functioning zombie to be honest, feeling something but not really nothing. Makes no sense and that's just the point. Awareness of a total fu#$ up I was but powerless to really do anything to make changes. I would cry in bed honestly every night cursing god, friends, and family. I felt really alone and I didn't have the answers of why or what was causing these feelings. I had my opinions, it was my job, then it was my marriage, and then the kids. I searched internally for answers but never coming up with anything that made sense. I would push those feelings of needing answers to the side and self medicate. At first I tried what my doctors and counselor suggested, but it just was not getting any better. So I took matters in my own hands and I started to find my own way to cope.
That involved partying and OM. None of that crap for me lasted very long, as I just had some idealizations of how life should be. The euphoric feelings wore off on it's own. Nothing had changed, OM wanted something serious, I just couldn't put my finger on why I couldn't go further with the romance. I knew deep down what I felt was euphoric but it was not love. OM couldn't erase the feelings I felt for H, he couldn't erase the memories, he just was not my H. Meantime I am treating my H like dirt, but what I felt on the inside was totally different from how I treated him during that time.
My H stood without either of us knowing that was what he was doing for almost 3 years. I remember having a big breakdown or release of the feelings of emptiness in my room just crying and crying. While I am crying I am thinking about H, all the bad things I told myself and anybody who would listen were a deal breaker and why I was leaving him I couldn't recall anymore. I just couldn't think of a good reason to throw it all away. All of his kindness, all of his tears, his sadness, his pain just washed over me in my bedroom that night. For the first time in 3 years I thought about how I treated him, what he must have been feeling, how I was so cruel, thoughtless and mean to him. How I had betrayed him, belittled him. I felt so much guilt and remorse and I just kept crying asking god to help me help myself. I asked him to fix me, heal me, show me what is my purpose in life as I truly did not know.
I woke up the next day and I felt clear headed. I felt like everything is not perfect, but I felt for the first time I could cope. I started being nice to everyone. I was scared to say anything to my H so I just observed him, was nice and kind, but quiet. I did this for a few months scared of how to proceed, unsure if I can even fix what I had done or if he even wanted me back. I started re-inserting myself in family functions but still quiet not telling my H nothing as I wanted to see what he was doing. All the changes he had made were they real or fake. I yearned for him and it was very difficult to not tell him what I was thinking but I couldn't trust myself just yet. I kept going to counseling but I refused to take any medicine. I just kept meditating, talking to god at night, and journaling my feelings in a notebook I had bought.
My H at some point started being distant, but I had already had my awakening by then so it made me speed up my desire to let him know I was ready to be a wife and I would do what it took to save us. From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did. The reason I believe this because I always had an awareness of what I was doing and that I still loved my H. I told him several times when he would plead to be with me that I would take him back one day. I knew what I was doing wouldn't last, nor did I want it to. Regardless I still felt a strong pull to do it anyway.
The awakening goes in stages, it is like waking up and realizing what you have done, I sat and pondered for quite some time on what to do next, I started doing the only thing I felt comfortable in doing at first was being a mom and being friendly to him, all my bad behavior stopped, and I told OM it was done. I worked on being H friend, and we were friends for 3 or 4 months before I was honest with him that I wanted to work on the marriage. Then I started putting my words into actions and trying to show him by being thoughtful and totally opposite of what I had been for 3 years. It was gradual but I felt rushed into stepping up. Maybe that is what I needed as I am not sure if he didn't start distancing himself if I would not be in the same limbo rut going back and forth on how to begin to fix things.
Denjef31
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Thank you Denjaf. I know this must be so painful for you to keep reliving, yet it is so helpful to those of us LBS. It really shows that GAL is so important, whether or not your spouse will ever come back.
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My husband left 14 months ago. We have not spoken since . I thought he would come to me eventually. But nothing yet. He has a horrible relationship with our 8 year. Is it because she is so close to me. Did you have any emotions with your kids. He just goes thru the day with her and could really care less.
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Thank you Def for a very honest and heart felt reply.
I am truly grateful to you for taking the time to answer my question in such detail and so quickly
xx
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Attaching
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" From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."
I wish EVERY LBS would read that statement! I've heard this from 3 different MLCer's now.
You need to let them go!
Thank you, den.
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" From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."
I wish EVERY LBS would read that statement! I've heard this from 3 different MLCer's now.
You need to let them go!
Thank you, den.
I couldn't have read this at a better time! Thank you so much, Denjef. These threads are so great to read and I imagine it can't be easy for you to write some of what you have written but you are amazing for doing this for us.
I have had to completely let go of my H. I believe he is in the deepest, darkest part of his journey and back to treating me the way he did immediately after BD, as if I am the worst person in the world and he hates me. He has blatantly avoided dealing with legal paperwork for over a year and is now demanding I sign the D papers and saying I have been the hold up, which is absolutely absurd.
He seems really angry that I moved to another state, even though he moved 1000 miles away from me in June.
I went very dark/dim right after he moved, only contacting him about the legal issue. In September, I stopped contacting him altogether.
He didn't contact me either but then when he found out I was moving in November he quickly had his lawyer draft up papers and is back to being angry and hateful, even using my beloved dog as a means of lashing out at me. He took my dog with him when he moved so I don't even get to see him anymore - he knows I miss the dog terribly and now he is saying he's likely going to have to put the dog to sleep due to his health issues.
I know it's MLC but I still often have a hard time wrapping my head around such cruelty. Even with all the knowledge I have gained, the lashing out at me still takes a toll. I feel the only thing I can do is not contact him and continue rebuilding my life in my new home while he builds his new life with OW.
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I'm living through the same cruelty Nassau. I can't understand what drives him.
I wanted to touch on Velika's question about big decisions made during the crisis. In her case her husband now is expecting a child.
My husband I believed was angry because I spoke to his mom and she confronted him and he walked in and filed for divorce on his own without a lawyer. After claiming that's where all his money goes.
He never told me he filed and I've never received papers. He only brings it up when confronted with something. Like money. I'm not sure he realuzes this is real life here. Or the gravity of a divorce under these circumstances.
Denjef ,
What are your thoughts on these decisions they make knowingly or in Velika's situation I'm sure was not planned.
Thank you in advance. I know you're trying to hard to answer everyone. Your perspective is invaluable.
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Nassau, I have the same situation going on right now. For a while H was calming down a bit and the other night H called me and hurt me like I have never been hurt before. H said the meanest things ever. I cried all night. I can no longer talk to H. I can't do it anymore. It all makes me ill and I don't want to get sick for my children. I have nothing left to say anymore. H is happy with OW and they are living their lives.
Denjef, Thank you posting. It is a huge help to LBS. The MLC is complicated for us who don't understand where our spouses went to. I will continue to read your posts. God Bless You for sharing and reliving the pain to benefit others.
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" From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."
I wish EVERY LBS would read that statement! I've heard this from 3 different MLCer's now.
You need to let them go!
Thank you, den.
Such a simple statement, letting them go. And yet, I find myself struggling with how to implement it, especially with a S10 and a stage 5 Clinger. I've definitely stopped pressuring, begging, and pleading. I guess, just do the 180? With a child who adores his dad, it's a little tricky. Any advice on how to "let it go" under those circumstances?
Thanks Den!
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Thanks Den for the insights. It's helping me on my journey and so many others.
KiT. All I can say is that turning my attention to being the lighthouse and being steady and strong and a good dad and being the person I want to be has made me feel good about where things are at. If half of what Den remembers is going on in my W's head, I'm looking like a rock star to her right now even though I'm just being me. And it feels good to just be me, and not trying to be anything for her or worry about the future of the M or what's going on in her head. I can't imagine what's going on in there, so why bother...
That's whats helped me detach, feeling good about me and who I am.
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Okay, I truly feel all of your pain as an LBS myself. Having said that I am going to be honest and play devil's advocate here. I want to make you all aware that yes, this is a terrible things are spouses are doing to us. The betrayal, abandonment, deceit, affair, and lies are unbearable. It hurts like hell!! So my question to you who are struggling with what I and many others who have experienced this nasty depression/MLC this is to you!! What can you do to stop the pain? What can you do to stop this train from running off the track? NOTHING!!!!!!! The only thing you can do is remove yourself out of harm's way.
I love my spouse just like you love your spouse, yet I did those same thing to my spouse. I hurt him in the worst way, I can never truly forgive myself for it. I do not like talking about it because I find it very repulsive and disgusting to think about it sometimes. There is an enormous awareness and guilt that comes with the bad behavior you are seeing. Some spouses will be very verbal and show that guilt at times, and others will bury themselves further in running behavior. Despite what you see, what you hear, please know they are miserable in the inside looking for peace. This possibly torments them more than you.
There are some stories on here that I do not believe are MLC. The giveaway that it is MLC is the running behavior and the utter confusion and indecision we experience in depression. One minute we are considering coming back to the marriage, the next day we made up our minds we are better off with OW/OM. The next day we are thinking again and haven't made up our mind. I cycled throughout my depression. I would make love to my H and had made up my mind that I was going to recommit to my marriage. Next few hours OM text me and want to spend some time with me, take me out and boom I had decided that quickly and easily nope I am done with H. It really is a going back and forth in our head constantly. You may think they are having fun and have made up their mind because they seem to be pretty sure from what you see that they have made the right decision but internally nothing could be further from the truth.
You cant run behind them, as it only adds fuel to the fire and further cements their decision to remain hidden. I noticed when H would pressure and pursue me I was off running. Running into OM's web. H would get discouraged and back off then I would run to him make love and I wanted him back. As soon as I was secure that he was still inlove with me and wanted me back as his wife, I took off confident as ever. RE-READ that!!! He stop pursuing, I then pursued. If you do not detach you will show them exactly what you do not want them to know. They need to feel the loss of you. They need to feel you have let go, they need to feel you are not there waiting in the wings. They need to feel they have passed the threshold of what you will accept and put up with.
It is cruel but also so easy to betray someone when you feel that no matter what you do to them they will always be there. They will put up with and allow anything because they just want you back. So as an MLC'er we think like this " My H loves me and he always will. If I want him I can always go back to him. However, OM is so nice to me, treats me very nice, and I enjoy spending time with him. I have to see where this goes as he might be the one for me, but I might blow it and he might end it so I have to take this chance. I have to end things with H so I can give 100% to OM, if it doesn't work out I can always go back to H, but I am not confident or certain that OM will be there waiting for me."
They are sure they have YOU, and not sure they have OM/OW. The adrenaline and hormones to secure OW/OM is what drives the behavior you are seeing. You take away that confidence, you stop fueling that thinking and you take back your power. DETACH, DETACH, DETACH!!!!! Some of you are in front row seat waiting for the next installment of the soap opera that is going on with your spouse. Please just stop it as it will be very difficult and painful for you to get past the betrayal. Some things are better off not being known to you. Stop waiting and looking for clues as to where your spouse is at with MLC. Yes, I did this too as LBS but the obsession I had with trying to get answers prevented me from seeing what I already knew.
It was not until I said "Fu$% it, I am done" and I meant it did I start seeing changes in my H. I said it many times to him out of anger, hoping he would wake up and realize what he was losing. When I truly detached, and didn't care what happened I just wanted to get to a place of peace he noticed. He felt the shift, the change and he started coming to me all on his own. He told me he still loved me and that was in August and he has been cycling towards me and we have been reconnecting ever since. As a LBS and as a MLC/Depressed person the shift matters. The point of detachment is what you all should be striving for and working really hard to obtain not only for your marriage, but for yourself.
You hate hearing the word detach, because you don't want to do it. You don't see how that matters, or that it will help you but it most definitely will help you. It is the only thing that will help you. Some spouses are gone, vanished into thin air....poof! So you don't think this applies to you as you don't see or hear from them anyway but it applies to you as well. If you don't get a handle on your emotions, handle the betrayal and start taking care of yourself...your spouse MLC will eat you alive. Take years from your life as you remain stuck wondering what if? how could they?
Don't do it!!!! Let go and let god.
Denjef31
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Again, thank you Denjaf. I am learning to love ME. And doing things I want to do. I don't initiate any contact w H. I have told him, he can come back when and if he is ready to truly commit and work on US, and if I'm still ready as well. Do you think I should tell him I don't want contact w him until or unless? I think we are at a good point, he keeps reaching out to me, however I know OW is still in the picture. He says they just talk but I am very doubtful, I don't see why that would be the case.
Thanks
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Again, thank you Denjaf. I am learning to love ME. And doing things I want to do. I don't initiate any contact w H. I have told him, he can come back when and if he is ready to truly commit and work on US, and if I'm still ready as well. Do you think I should tell him I don't want contact w him until or unless? I think we are at a good point, he keeps reaching out to me, however I know OW is still in the picture. He says they just talk but I am very doubtful, I don't see why that would be the case.
Thanks
No I do not think you should implement no contact. I am not an advocate for it, and I think it hinders reconnection. He is reaching out to you because he is cycling, he has not made up his mind, and he still deep down knows he still cares for you deeply. He is lying about OW to protect you. Yes, in perfect world to protect you would be stop doing things that hurt you but it is not that easy in MLC world. If he came clean about every stinking thing he is or has done he probably feels there would be no coming back as you would not be able to forgive him and any chance of reconciliation would be lost in his confession.
Do not talk about OW, as you will only get more lies. You keep being a happy, kind spouse in spite of what he is showing you.
Denjef31
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You have delivered Gold again Denjef. I am at that F*ck it, I'm done point. I have to admit, it took me time, but I have had enough of her sh!t.
I see a lot of my W in what you write. The cycling back and forth that she does with me. Using sex to keep me in place. She is too comfortable. My family has told me many times that she has no fear. They say she believes that I will never leave her. She can do as she pleases. Your correct.
Now I have bumbled my way threw her mlc, I admit. I left home Oct 16th because I told her that I had enough. I'm not talking to her. She's not talking to me. We had one school function together and she sent me a few emails, whining and monstering. She complains that we don't have sex and wants to know basically how am I meeting my needs.
We did not spend this past Thanksgiving together. She did not invite me and I did leave the house for behavioral issues afterall. Now she says that I don't love her or the kids. Maybe she needs to feel more of this angst.
She has to chase me. I'm done making this easy on her. I'm not shutting her out but she has to finally see that I am serious. I can move on without her and I know that I will be fine. Now she has to feel it.
As usual your posts are much appreciated, Thank you.
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Thanks Denjaf. I do not ask about OW, I know it would only cause lies. It already did. Twice he promised no contact, and twice he was caught in it. Once before he moved out, once after. I am done asking. I did tell him, he'll know he's ready when he's ready to give up all contact with her. And that was the last time we talked about it, at least a few weeks ago. I also told him, he will need to be very transparent w his phone etc when he comes home.
We will probably start back in counseling after the first of the year. I can wait and see what he has to say then. Until then, I can continue to be ME and enjoy finding myself again.
I really appreciate all your help and support. I hate that you're going through this, on the LBS side, after all you went through already. I hate that we ALL are going through this.
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You have delivered Gold again Denjef. I am at that F*ck it, I'm done point. I have to admit, it took me time, but I have had enough of her sh!t.
I see a lot of my W in what you write. The cycling back and forth that she does with me. Using sex to keep me in place. She is too comfortable. My family has told me many times that she has no fear. They say she believes that I will never leave her. She can do as she pleases. Your correct.
Now I have bumbled my way threw her mlc, I admit. I left home Oct 16th because I told her that I had enough. I'm not talking to her. She's not talking to me. We had one school function together and she sent me a few emails, whining and monstering. She complains that we don't have sex and wants to know basically how am I meeting my needs.
We did not spend this past Thanksgiving together. She did not invite me and I did leave the house for behavioral issues afterall. Now she says that I don't love her or the kids. Maybe she needs to feel more of this angst.
She has to chase me. I'm done making this easy on her. I'm not shutting her out but she has to finally see that I am serious. I can move on without her and I know that I will be fine. Now she has to feel it.
As usual your posts are much appreciated, Thank you.
Bravo Watcher!!!
By goly you got it! What you are doing is exactly what she needs. You have dropped the rope and now she has to figure out how to pick up the pieces and solve the puzzle! She is definitely worried about you moving on by the questions she is asking. Keep being aloof with her, she will keep coming out of her shell as she will not want to lose the golden egg.
Keep me updated on what you are seeing and hearing. I am ready to do the happy dance for you!
Denjef31
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Thanks Denjaf. I do not ask about OW, I know it would only cause lies. It already did. Twice he promised no contact, and twice he was caught in it. Once before he moved out, once after. I am done asking. I did tell him, he'll know he's ready when he's ready to give up all contact with her. And that was the last time we talked about it, at least a few weeks ago. I also told him, he will need to be very transparent w his phone etc when he comes home.
We will probably start back in counseling after the first of the year. I can wait and see what he has to say then. Until then, I can continue to be ME and enjoy finding myself again.
I really appreciate all your help and support. I hate that you're going through this, on the LBS side, after all you went through already. I hate that we ALL are going through this.
Who is suggesting counseling? If you are, don't ask anymore about counseling. Some MLC'er will go through the motion of counseling to shut you up but they already feel it wont work, because deep down they know they are not ready to stop their behavior. Before I was depressed I kept asking my H to go to counseling to resolve communication issues and he never wanted to go. Once I was in full blown depression, I withdrew physically and emotionally and it was him who wanted to go and I was totally against it. He would set up appts I would say I was going but I made excuses and I never went.
Go into counseling hopeful, but have an openmind that you may not get the benefits you hoped to see. Do not be discouraged by it though, MLC just takes time and MLC' er has to see and experience things their way and on their terms not ours.
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Denjaf,
It was initially my idea for H to go, this was before I realized the extent of MLC. This was after I discovered the EA w OW, and h was telling me how broken he felt. I suggested the therapist we'd been to quite a while ago. Once he reached out to her, he started going to IC eagerly. After a few sessions, I also went to IC. Then, at his suggestion, I started going w him, not really MC, more like I was there for his IC. He thought (and the therapist thought) that it would help us to communicate. We did this a couple times, then the therapist went out on medical leave. H has said he couldn't wait until after the first of the year, when she returns, to go back. I think he realizes it is helping HIM. We haven't gotten to the point that it is about US, he's not ready for that and I do understand that. If he chooses to return, it's up to him, and it will continue to be about him as long as he needs/wants it.
Thanks :)
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Someone asked a question in this thread about a spouse who remarried or had a baby with OW/OM. I do not have personal experience with this so this is just a theory from what I was feeling and thinking at the time and what I have seen with my own H during his MLC. I absolutely was not so far infatuated that I ever completely removed myself out of H life. I frequently checked the anchor so I was totally aware that at some point I did indeed want to return to the marriage. I was also aware that if I got pregnant, took a man around my kids, or flaunted OM in front of my H that those could possibly be un-repairable deal breakers for my H. I still did what I wanted to do so that's where the lying, and running comes in. We really don't want to hurt you and some are consciously aware that the future involves you but they cant help themselves from exploring this OW/OM.
There are some MLC's who actually have bought into the whole euphoric feelings the fog brings on and they are temporarily blinded by their own destructive behavior and see nothing wrong with pursuing what they feel brings them happiness even at the cost of hurting their spouse and kids. When you have this type of MLC yes it is very possible they will marry OP and/or have a baby with this person feeling they have met the love of their life and you although they love you were not the love of their life. That is irrational thinking and behavior. The feelings do evaporate and then they are left with the choice of staying and trying to make it work with OP knowing once the fog has lifted they actually don't have much in common with the person, and actually hate the choices they made but they feel compelled to stay out of embarrassment. They have messed up so many people lives in the process it just doesn't feel fair to cut and run again. So they stay in a miserable relationship and suffer the bed they made.
Now, that is a very small few. If they walked out on you and your children, that means they are capable of waking up and getting out of the relationship they feel was a mistake and entered in when they were not thinking clearly. They will test you, see if they have a chance with you before any decisions are made. They have to feel their is a chance for them to go through the drama of hurting people again. Yes, once the fog has lifted they can and do return back to their marriages. They do make arrangements to be a father to the child they created with OP but they go home to their spouses hoping to blend their family and seek your forgiveness. I read countless stories of this being the case.
My H I believe felt as I did when I was depressed. Even deep in his fog there are certain things he must have thought about that could not happen if we were to ever get back together in the future. He out of the blue one day in early spring when he was still in the thick of the fog that he would never marry anybody and he would never have any children with another woman. I think these are personal deal breakers for him and so he made a promise to me to never do that to me.
Some OW/OM can be very deceptive and manipulative so while your spouse has no intention of doing these things, sometimes things are out of their control. While other things such as marrying the OP are more about keeping the euphoric feeling going. If I marry him/her then they will not withhold this love, this feeling that I feel when I am with him/her so If this is what I must do to keep him/her happy then I will do it as being with them makes me happy. When the fog lifts, they realize just how stupid the decision was and just like that they want out, and you will see them sniffing around looking for any breadcrumbs that they could come back.
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Denjaf,
It was initially my idea for H to go, this was before I realized the extent of MLC. This was after I discovered the EA w OW, and h was telling me how broken he felt. I suggested the therapist we'd been to quite a while ago. Once he reached out to her, he started going to IC eagerly. After a few sessions, I also went to IC. Then, at his suggestion, I started going w him, not really MC, more like I was there for his IC. He thought (and the therapist thought) that it would help us to communicate. We did this a couple times, then the therapist went out on medical leave. H has said he couldn't wait until after the first of the year, when she returns, to go back. I think he realizes it is helping HIM. We haven't gotten to the point that it is about US, he's not ready for that and I do understand that. If he chooses to return, it's up to him, and it will continue to be about him as long as he needs/wants it.
Thanks :)
This is good, as long as he is initiating it. I encourage you to go under those circumstances but I will caution you to be more of an active listener. You can learn a lot of good things about what your husband is thinking or feeling by just listening. You seem to have a good handle on what you need to do so I look forward to reading more about how H is coming along in the new year.
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Yes, I have learned to be a good listener. I know if I make it about US, or ME, that he will shut down. So I am learning. One day at a time... Thank you again, a million times over. I can't imagine how much harder this would have been if I hadn't found this site!
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Denjef,
Thanks for your honesty, and for being open. This frank decision is one of the best that I've read on HS. It's insightful, and you have helped many of us with. This is now making some sense. It was really crazy for a long time, but now I'm at peace.
I'm still NC and now he's trying to connect with the kids, I'm not interfering. My OD is so out of control, all I can do is just make sure she's not going to self destruct.
I've detached to the point were I can say his name again without calling him the EX. I can say the AD's name without having any twinges of anything. I'm happy, and so are my Younger 2 girls.
This thread has helped me tremendously with staying in "ghost mode". Thanks for your help, it's truly appreciated.
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Question: don't you think when you areconfised and trying to make decisions the the affair partner doesn't help matters? Why not get rid of them ? And I still don't understand this emotional attach emery . Can you give an example ? Maybe in a conversation they may have or action ? That part really confused me . Explain this emotional attachment pleas . I just don't get it .
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Keep believing, I understand part of it. It's up or mania phase of the mood swing or part of the MLC phase.
In the beginning, you don't care; it's just too much fun. When you're not doing it, all you can think about is doing what ever it is and this often helped through social media.. keeping the energy going while at work or other duties. You do things you normally wouldn't do.. I once spent 300$ of rent money on alcohol and going out to clubs (not all at once). You just feel this need to do it. We all have the desire to buy something special that we don't because it's frivolous and then once in a blue moon, we give in. Amplify that impulse times 1000 and make it every day. That's how it is..
Then it begins to wear off. We can talk ourselves back into the "up" swing, but you start coming down faster and faster. Then you begin to bargain with and make excuses for yourself. I'll do this now and get over it later.. I'll just be ok if I can.. Once I get to, then I'll.. Life becomes a blur of looking directly down at your feet and counting the cracks in the sidewalk and then leaves, then the ants and then the grains in the concrete as you plod along day after day.
After that, people usually start throwing crap at the wall, hoping something sticks and will provide them with their first hand or foot hold out. They may try new jobs, change their style of dress again, hang out with a different crowd, watch different tv shows.. It's still escape and avoid, but this time, when they see something that offers a way out, they'll take a chance on it.
None of whatever is going on is real. It's more about the choice the person makes to do it, to give into the impulse to get carried away and not have to live with rules. To give themselves permission to buy that special bottle of perfume or that fancy watch. It's more about the illusion of control they feel by trying to define themselves by their new lifestyle more than it is any kind of love for the other person.
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I always heard the OP is like a drug that gives them a high. They are depressed and feel nothing, then this addiction comes along and wow you feel again. When you're away from them you start to go through a withdrawal...so you keep going back to get your high again, no matter how bad that person is for you or how much destruction they cause.
I don't think it's so much the ow/om having power, it's the addictive high the MLCer get from them. So yeah, they listen to them because they don't want that high to leave them. Like a drug addict who will sell their soul for that drug.
At least that's my take on it from what I've read. I still think, in their state of mind, the ow/om could be anyone and they would listen to them.
denjef? I'm sure you have a better explanation. :)
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Thunder, it's an addiction plain and simple.
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Thunder, I agree with what you are saying. I see the addiction with my H and OW. I don't know how they break that addiction and become normal again. I have seen it a big part of H's life with OW, and H can't get enough with the child. It is so disgusting. When they are not together they sex text. How normal is that? When you have a family, life is not all about sex, it is about life and living life with your spouse in a healthy way.
Denjef, What stage are you in the fog?
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Thanks . I totally " saw my h in the beginning fun part. He always seemed happy but he was always drinking . Anyway he is way past that. Over an odd feeling he keeps saying to himself , one last time with ow. To much to explain of why I feel this . But beside the big you get what is this emotional bond. Like someone said she. Making a decision whether to go home or not,they would be with their h feel good but then go back to om for emotional well being .what is the difference? I understand the addiction thing , that's not emotional. I also believe that could be true of the mlc saying if you stopped begging I would have woke up sooner a little but isn't it over when the crisis is over. All about them. Is that just another excuse or putting blame on the lbs that the crisis last longer.. I'm a recovering alcoholic . Now I could say thAt a million times. If only he did oft hey would do .... It wasn't until I was emotionally empty. Now if the begging and pleading stop and help the Mlc to get to that empty place then it makes sense.
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Question: don't you think when you areconfised and trying to make decisions the the affair partner doesn't help matters? Why not get rid of them ? And I still don't understand this emotional attach emery . Can you give an example ? Maybe in a conversation they may have or action ? That part really confused me . Explain this emotional attachment pleas . I just don't get it .
Regardless of whether this is an MLC affair or EXIT affair, the basic principals and concepts are the same. Most affairs start off with basic conversation. Someone acknowledging something small such as they love the shirt, dress, shoes, glasses (insert whatever you choose) That makes anyone feel good about themselves to be noticed by someone who appears to have no motivation to say that so it must be true!
They start talking casually, finding out things about each other, they laugh, they make jokes, they talk about simple things that married couples who have been together for years have simply forgotten to do as it just doesn't seem so important anymore when you have bills, kids, cleaning, cooking and other responsibilities. While this is the reality of your life, this OP is slowly filling a void that has been neglected for quite sometime. You didn't realize you were neglecting your H/W because you did everything you thought a loving spouse should and your spouse gave you no indication that things were off. It happens!!!
At some point an emotional attachment is built and your spouse starts to look at this OP as a very close friend, perhaps there best friend. After all they haven't laughed this hard, or shared this much with anyone and felt totally comfortable in years. They cant tell you, you would suspect something was wrong. They feel it to but they feel they are capable of having a platonic friendship and if they told you then you would just nag them and accuse them of things they are not doing (yet).
At some point lines do get crossed, somebody says something inappropriate to the other, and instead of getting a look of shock the person receives a look of being pleasantly surprised with a smile on their face. It is clear the other person has been thinking about the same things....if only I wasn't married, if only I met you first, or where were you 20 years ago? This then becomes an obsession where you are constantly thinking about OP. The euphoric feelings start to kick in because suddenly you have become aware that someone you think you have so much in common with obviously feels the same way about you. This has got to be fate right? How is that of all the milliions of people on this earth, two people who have so much in common, and are attracted to each other happen to work in the same office, or frequent the same restaurant or coffee shop, or have same circle of friends/business acquaintances.
You can see how this quickly adds up to a person who is thinking irrationally and behaving impulsively. By the time the spouse usually finds out it has been going on for a while and now the feelings are strong. They cant imagine not having the OP in their life but they still realize they have a marriage, family, and obligations so this is when you will start to see the confusion and cycling. They want to make it work and stop what is clearly wrong but it hasn't to be right or why do I feel this way? Why did you bring her/him into my life if it wasn't meant to be? When you have reached this point most people are not able to walk away. They are not able to willingly go into withdrawal and feel the loss of this OP who has awoke something they haven't felt in so long.
At first they know they love their spouse and that is where they belong, but the more time that is spent with OM/OW those feelings become muddy and they are no longer sure about anything because the feelings for OW/OM are growing. They feel it is love but it isn't. It is the hormones. Here comes BD and your world as you know it turned upside down. Some will try to end it and promise to stop talking to OP but this is false. They want to, they try, but someone initiates contact and the confusion, running in circles, and being unsure of what to do begins. This is why it must play out, infatuation does not last and there is nothing you can do to stop it so you must step aside and let them carry on with it until it's conclusion.
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Thanks . I totally " saw my h in the beginning fun part. He always seemed happy but he was always drinking . Anyway he is way past that. Over an odd feeling he keeps saying to himself , one last time with ow. To much to explain of why I feel this . But beside the big you get what is this emotional bond. Like someone said she. Making a decision whether to go home or not,they would be with their h feel good but then go back to om for emotional well being .what is the difference? I understand the addiction thing , that's not emotional. I also believe that could be true of the mlc saying if you stopped begging I would have woke up sooner a little but isn't it over when the crisis is over. All about them. Is that just another excuse or putting blame on the lbs that the crisis last longer.. I'm a recovering alcoholic . Now I could say thAt a million times. If only he did oft hey would do .... It wasn't until I was emotionally empty. Now if the begging and pleading stop and help the Mlc to get to that empty place then it makes sense.
It is both. It is an addiction as well as an emotional connection. Most affairs are not just physical, they have built a friendship, and an emotional attachment to another person who are not their spouse. They share hopes, dreams, aspirations, future desires, and what if with each other just as you would if you were single and dating but at least one of them are not single and free to be dating. What is unique about this is the one of these individuals are depressed and searching for happiness outside of their normal lives, and marriages. They are looking for a fixer, to rewrite history.
What they do not realize is that while at first this OP may seem like they make you happy, but it is only temporary and the reality of you are no better than you were before you met them, and usually worse because now you are experiencing guilt, self loathe, you hurt, your kids hurt, your spouse hurt, and you know what you should and need to do but the reality is either way you look at it you are going to hurt someone. Someone is going to get hurt with whatever decision you make so you do nothing but hope one of them makes it easy on you and leave the relationship. You think this would relieve your guilt as you didn't leave your spouse did.
Eventually you realize your spouse leaving due to your affair still did not give you the happiness you thought you would have. Nor did it relieve your guilt. The OP is not making you happy, it was a nice dream when you could leave him/her and go back to your real family and life. When you move in with AP and start sharing a household, bills, having kids, expectations increases, fights start and then you realized what you just got out of is happening again. You didn't gain anything as it was never about the marriage, it was about you and your own insecurities and self doubt. What is inside you internally if not fixed will carry on with you for each future relationships and that is what the MLC'er has to acknowledge and understand.
Maybe I am not making sense to some of you, but I hope some of you get it. Although it is not real love for the MLC'er they very much believe it is. They do feel and they do care but it just isn't love and so it will not last under false pretenses, lies, and guilt.
Edit to fix quote marks
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I don't know how that happened I quoted Keep Believing to respond to her and my reply is built within her quote sorry about that everybody :(
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It makes total sense, Denjaf. Once again, thanks for your incredible insights
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That's exactly what my h said. He didn't want to hurt her but feels bad for hurting me . That was in July . I told him how could that even matter . You have only known her for 2 years . But it was so easy to hurt your family . He also said no matter he's firetrucked . He is definitely waiting for some one to make the decision for him . Which the ow will never let him go . She is d with 4 little kids. She will take whatever he gives her.. He has now been staring to me why does it matter who he hangs out with. Like he doesn't want to let her go completely . His problem . If that's what he wants fine . I'm not going to compete with her . He will lose on the end . For what . A ow who coaxed him through a rough time . I told him before, she knew you were married so that's her problem . He tries to justify it by saying we were separated .wjatever he has to say to believe he didn't do wrong . He also told me in July that they had talked and he said she said she told herself she wouldn't get involved with a man again with a crazy " wife or ex.
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Denjef, Great information. I felt as though I was reading my H's story. That is exactly how it happened for them. I agree with KB that the OW had no right to pursue H when she knew H was married. That shows OW has no self respect, dignity or morals. It is mind boggling to think H can give up his entire life for OW. When I look at my H's case of almost 40 year difference, I can't imagine how in the world you can sustain a relationship. What in the world can you have in common? I believe all LBS will be the survivors in the end and the MLC'ers will be the losers if they don't push through the MLC and see all the damage they have done. There is a lot for all MLC'ers to do in the end. It is total devastation to the family, especially when absolutely no-one saw it coming in the M.
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I have struggled in my situation to see what kind of affair this was. In my case , h went on a dating site . Met once for lunch then to a hotel the next day. And two more times in a week. I found out a month later by checking the bank. According to bank records it seems to show he was telling the truth in that area. There is nothing out of the usual before or since that week.
My H also had used Snd I believe still is using drugs. The way he cheated even seems to be what would be considered a manic phase I think. Very over the top And out of character. He had told me straight out it was just for sex. Which is disgusting to me but I tend to believe him. I know the way he was with me after BD and he was different. Vulgar and crude. Like another person.
He told me we could remain intimate without feelings.
I just can't see him having feeling for anyone. He has abandoned the household , kids , and me.
He has shown signs of mental illness. His doctor believes it's a dual diagnosis. Not just MLC but it's that too. I just don't know which came first. The chicken or the egg.
I've wondered many times if it was an exit affair. But then I remember the complete confusion And going back and forth with me. Snd the lies. The change in personality. And even now manipulating our children.
I don't know the extent of the relationship with the ow. He laughs and says it wasn't a relationship. The way he talks about it , he doesn't care if he hurts me. He acts like this is normal talk and I'm not his wife.
He even says so what I f someone , you did so much worse to me.
I would think if he believed he was in love or this was a relationship hevwas leaving me for he'd be cruel enough to say. And I would know by now. He lives with his parents.
Im wondering what part his cheating played in all of this mess.
Gman,
I've seen that manic phase. I just don't know if it's drugs or mental or both.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this kind of cheating and why he is running harder all of a sudden ?
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Hi Christina,
It sounds a lot like your H was/is in Replay which mimics Bipolar. The highs of mania and lows of 'male or MLC depression'. pls see my thread on what male on MLC depression because 'male depression is completely different than female depression.
The medical community doesn't accept MLC, yet those of us who experience it by others sure do. I see MLC as temporary mental illness. you can find Bipolar, Narcissism, Borderline personality, and maybe others.
The most important thing is for you to focus on yourself and let your H go through the MLC phases so he can finally heal childhood wounds. His MLC has nothing to do with you.
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Christina
My H had a coke problem a long time ago, when he went into MLC I thought he was relapsing, the behaviour was very very similar.
He was manic, couldn't sleep, was hyper active, was on an extreme diet............what I was seeing was the dopamine rush the OW was giving him (coke acts the same, giving a dopamine high).
When people are infatuated with someone they are 'high' we can all remember some time in our life where this has been the case.
BUT.....my H also said about 5-6 weeks after I started seeing this 'manic' behaviour....that he had a foggy head, he couldn't think straight.....he felt numb............he knew he loved me, but he couldn't feel it......he couldn't see any point in eating, music, TV anything, he just felt numb....
Now from what I have read from depression that's how they feel devoid of feeling.
So imagine you feel nothing.................the high, the dopamine rush the AP gives is going to be accentuated ......
Because the affair partner is like a life jacket to a drowning man..............in the beginning that is.
BUT as with cocaine, the initial high is the biggest high.............after that they are on a downward slope...........chasing the dragon....the elusive high of the first 'hit'.........they will never find again............but they keep looking for it, doing everything the AP wants, demands, needs because the reward is (they think) the high, but the high is fleeting because like any 'chemically induced high its artificial and eventually doesnt work as the brain gets use to it and so they have to face what they have been running from OR go further into the depths and never facing anything
In the beginning they totally lack empathy because they are being driven by a primeval need to run away from the depths of despair they are feeling and they are looking for external reasons for the despair...its easy to think we are the reason because running away might make it better, might mean they can fix it and with the high they get from the initial 'escape' and affair it only goes to reaffirm this belief...as time goes on the guilt and shame creep in, the high goes, there are moments of lucidity and they 'know' but it takes a very long time for them to face the problem might be with them.
In between time they make a mess a big royal mess.............
But these "relationships" are never about lurve..................they are all about a chemical high, an escape and an illusion....
once you really get this, it hurts less......it still hurts but it hurts less....and you realise, really you cant do anything but get on with your life, as your H has to go through this and you either have to wait for the brain chemicals to right themselves or move on....what ever you feel is your path...
I have said it many many times but OW is just cocaine with a pulse and I know that's true
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El,
can you provide the link to the particular thread that has the MLC depression list please. I saw a good while back a comprehensive list with descriptions that I would like to pass on to a friend who has found herself in an all too familiar place.
thanks
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1Trouble, that's a really interesting post. My H is also a coke user I think the pressure of a sales environment, more senior position kickstarted his use and that brought on the MLC he's in now. At BD (when I found texts with OW) he said he felt nothing and he was just trying to feel something - he said he drove around feeling nothing, was acting his way through work and life and he didn't even feel anything for his parents - total numbness. I then read that the chemicals that are released in limerance - the early stages of a new relationship are exactly the same as with coke use so it literally is a drug!
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I know it sounds mind boggling about what our spouses are doing. My W fell in love with her Soulmate. She is on a Web site that is the anti Hero Spouse. They preach for you to go for it. Get rid of your spouse and your soulmate will come to you.
I use her as an example because my W chased this man. She was the pursuer. Did something happen ? I don't know. I do know that he wants absolutely nothing to do with her. He lives 1800 miles away and they only spent 5 days together and talked on the phone for about a month. He filed a complaint against her at work because she scared the sh!t out of him. Her words.
The point is she will not let it go. It's the infatuation. The sh!t is powerful. It's really not him. Its my wife that has the problem. My Dr says this takes time and yes I agree Denjef. My W is a liar. My Dr says 6 months cold turkey is necessary for recovery. So somebody is still doing some contacting here. One hit and you have to repeat the 6 months again according to my Dr.
She is throwing her life away for a pure fantasy. It's that strong of an addiction.
Thanks again Denjef.
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Denjef,
I'm really interested in your feelings about reconnection. I totally get the connnecting and not scaring them off with relationship talk or asking about OW etc in the beginning but what if they feel like they have to start explaining it talking about it. My H and I don't have kids so haven't had the regular contact that many have we have had v little contact. I know that my H is now in the regretting what he's done phase, making enquiries after me (am I missing him, have I moved on etc) and has been very emotional about it - he knows he has messed up. There therefore may be a possibility of reconnecting at some point though it's still early days but I genuinely don't know how to handle any kind of reconnection. SO much has happened it needs discussing at some point but I agree not at the beginning. I kind of feel it would need to be a gradual soft almost 'dating' process to rebuild but isn't all the MLC / OW stuff the elephant in the room? I'm adamant that I'm detached, I'm not chasing, I haven't begged once and have no intention of doing so. I've been GAL and making sure I document that on social media in a very subtle way and it's not gone unoticed. So, this reconnection will be led by him and I won't be a doormat. However the caveat to that is I am told my H is a mess, he looks terrible, has been doing drugs etc and there is a high chance if he comes back it won't be in a good state which would mean a different tactic - how do you handle that? I mean you want to be there for them,help etc but maintain enough detachment but while still holding a connection - complex stuff!!!????
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You can be there for him if he reaches out to you without being a doormat or a pursuer. In fact I encourage you if he does reach out for legitimate friendship, and help that you be the lighthouse for him in his darkness. He is feeling sorry for himself now, his mind is racing constantly with what he did, what should be his next move. He probably doesn't want to repeat the same mistakes, but sadly they often do. Sit back, let him come to you. He has to do the pursuing now, he has to make his wishes known to you. You cant make this easy for him, but you cant make it difficult for him either.
So many LBS's see a glimmer of hope and they go running into their spouses arms with relationship talk, asking about OP, and it sends their spouses running. It is a gradual and slow dance. He will make a move if you let him lead for now. He is still in a crisis but some things have occurred that may not be known to you that has caused him to re-think some decisions he has made. My prayers are that god gives you strength to show him love despite what he has shown to you, and give you courage to be there for him when he comes to you. Love is unconditional
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I've been thinking a lot about this today. Love being unconditional.
I was wondering Denjef if you can help me understand from your point of view why my H doesn't want to be around us long. The kids and I. He can't sit still.
He will go sometimes a few days with no contact and then come every single day in another week.
He had now cut me out from coming to family functions. His family now suspects the drugs and I don't know if it's because he doesn't want them around me because he is hiding the truth or what his reasoning is.
I've been kind and he just seems like he can't stand to be around me. But he doesn't visit with the kids long either. Before he moved in with his parents he made comments like I don't want to spend my life on the couch ( ironic because it was one of the reasons he left me , because I washed the dishes instead of sitting in the couch with him ), and I need to get out of here , and sometimes I don't like coming home and I'm not happy here.
The strange thing is in those moments he didn't blame me for his unhappiness. He just said he wasn't happy at home.
I'll never understand how the sanctuary of the home he loved is now where he's not comfortable.
Up until about three weeks ago he was still showering and sleeping in our bed at times.
I also wonder if he filed in that manic state. He denied and I never got papers.
But I know he filed on his own.
I just wonder why the person he loved the most is now the person he runs from. But actually it's our whole life.
Thanks for reading. I know you're answering a lot for everyone !
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I've been thinking a lot about this today. Love being unconditional.
I was wondering Denjef if you can help me understand from your point of view why my H doesn't want to be around us long. The kids and I. He can't sit still.
He will go sometimes a few days with no contact and then come every single day in another week.
He had now cut me out from coming to family functions. His family now suspects the drugs and I don't know if it's because he doesn't want them around me because he is hiding the truth or what his reasoning is.
I've been kind and he just seems like he can't stand to be around me. But he doesn't visit with the kids long either. Before he moved in with his parents he made comments like I don't want to spend my life on the couch ( ironic because it was one of the reasons he left me , because I washed the dishes instead of sitting in the couch with him ), and I need to get out of here , and sometimes I don't like coming home and I'm not happy here.
The strange thing is in those moments he didn't blame me for his unhappiness. He just said he wasn't happy at home.
I'll never understand how the sanctuary of the home he loved is now where he's not comfortable.
Up until about three weeks ago he was still showering and sleeping in our bed at times.
I also wonder if he filed in that manic state. He denied and I never got papers.
But I know he filed on his own.
I just wonder why the person he loved the most is now the person he runs from. But actually it's our whole life.
Thanks for reading. I know you're answering a lot for everyone !
Sorry you are hurting Christina. It will get better. Your question is actually very simple. He cant stand to be around you, home, or the kids very long because it causes him extreme hurt and guilt. They do this when they cycle. They try to fight off the feelings of guilt, and shame so they run and remain hidden for days, weeks, and even months. Eventually the desire to see his family is greater than his guilt and shame so he comes to see you. After a short period of time there those strong feelings to leave overwhelm him so he does.
Yes, this is very hurtful and incredibly frustrating. I did it to my H, I didn't want to give him any hope so I quickly left when I visited his apartment. My H did it to me too, sometimes he would make excuses and lies to not pick up our son from the house, and even drop him at the door but not come in like he was banned. It was so hurtful and I remember asking my friends here why was he doing this as I just couldn't think outside of my own pain as for the reason why he felt he couldn't be around me or the kids for very long. I got great advice here, and then I start thinking back to what I felt and did when I suffered my own depression and it helped me to be able to look back to answer some of the questions that I already had the answer to.
Your H will continue to do this for quite some time as he is in replay. Throughout replay he will have guilt but also a strong desire to choose his drug of choice, and you will continue to see running and abandonment behavior. Do not put too much stalk in what you are seeing or hearing right now from him. This is truly MLC script. It eventually stops and all the running ends, and he will eventually start spending quality time at the house with you and the kids, but don't expect that anytime soon. You have to keep being kind, friendly, making your home inviting and a place of peace and comfort for him as he is not getting peace anywhere else. He will resist your kindness at first, very leery and suspect you of being manipulative. This will subside as your consistency will pay off.
Just for now be quiet, and kind. He has to do this for himself and you cant interfere with the process. I remember wanting to shake, strangle, and walk away from my H bafoolery all at the same time. I am no where near reconciled but I know how this goes and the positive things I am seeing all leads to a path of reconciliation. I just need to be still, and patient as this process is moving ever so slowly. You will need to do the same things even in this stage where his actions are despicable and hurtful. Show love in spite of.
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There are some stories on here that I do not believe are MLC. The giveaway that it is MLC is the running behavior and the utter confusion and indecision we experience in depression. One minute we are considering coming back to the marriage, the next day we made up our minds we are better off with OW/OM. The next day we are thinking again and haven't made up our mind. I cycled throughout my depression. I would make love to my H and had made up my mind that I was going to recommit to my marriage. Next few hours OM text me and want to spend some time with me, take me out and boom I had decided that quickly and easily nope I am done with H.
denje, I agree with you that some here are not dealing with MLC. But this only tends to be true for the begining of the crisis. When a MLCer is settled deep in the tunnel, they stop doing it (unlesss that are a super clue clinger and their LBS is up to allow them their antics). You also need to think that there are several types of MLCers, clingers, on-off, boomerang and vanishers. Some of these types do not do that, or do not spend the whole of their crisis doing. And real vanishers just vanish, there is zero contact. The other thing is that you had a very short and mild crisis. That is not case with several of our MLCers. Their crisis last two or three or more times yours and are much deeper, darker and nastier.
Long term MLCers have a point, that can last for many years, where there are firmly convinced OW/OM is the real deal and they may desingage from their spouse and not contact the spouse for a very long period of time.
So as an MLC'er we think like this " My H loves me and he always will. If I want him I can always go back to him. However, OM is so nice to me, treats me very nice, and I enjoy spending time with him. I have to see where this goes as he might be the one for me, but I might blow it and he might end it so I have to take this chance. I have to end things with H so I can give 100% to OM, if it doesn't work out I can always go back to H, but I am not confident or certain that OM will be there waiting for me."
No I do not think you should implement no contact. I am not an advocate for it, and I think it hinders reconnection. He is reaching out to you because he is cycling, he has not made up his mind, and he still deep down knows he still cares for you deeply.
I think this is also true early on the relationship with OW/OM. Because a point comes when OW/OM no longer treats the MLCer nice. In fact, they are bossing the MLCer around, having huge nasty fights with the MLCer, nothing goes well in their relationship. Unlike what LBS often think, a relationship with OW/OM can last for many years, with several break ups in the middle (even if the LBS is not taking back the MLCer or around to hear them). MLCers put up with real bad, long relationships with their alienator.
And some MLCers are aware their LBS has moved on, is not going to take them back. And others don't have a clue what their LBS is going to do or not to do. Long term MLC is a different thing. Many years go by, contact is often lost. LBS keeps leading its life and the MLCer becomes forgot, no longer has a relevant place in the LBS mind/daily life.
No I do not think you should implement no contact. I am not an advocate for it, and I think it hinders reconnection. He is reaching out to you because he is cycling, he has not made up his mind, and he still deep down knows he still cares for you deeply.
I agree, lack of contact may make reconnection more difficult. But try more than three of four years with a crazy MLCer who lives with OW/OM. Not going to work, especially if MLCer and LBS have no children. Of course some LBS always keep in contact with their MLCer. But if we keep in contact with our MLCer, isn't it a bit like saying, "hey, we are still here for you"? Some how both things sound a bit contradictory to me. At least from a certain point on.
I know you are mostly talking to newbies and early timers and that you are speaking from a personal experience of a short crisis. For a long timer, some of the things you write don't apply so much, or we have different views of those things because our long experience with our MLCers shows us differently. The one I don't believe is that while in crisis a MLCer still cares for us deeply. A depressed deed in crisis MLCer cares for no one, not even themselves.
I always heard the OP is like a drug that gives them a high.
But like all drugs, at a point, there will be no more high. Or to obtain the same high, higher and higher dosages are necessary. I very much doubt that years down the road the OW/OM provide any high. Let alone when the MLCer is not oscillating between OW/OM and LBS.
What most likely happen is that, since they have destroyed everything, like RCR writes, they think they may as well stick to OW/OM.
And we have seen several of our MLCer either jumping from OW/OM to OW/OM or finding more and more running and escaping behaviours to try to get the high because OW/OM are no longer provide the fix.
Regardless of whether this is an MLC affair or EXIT affair, the basic principals and concepts are the same. Most affairs start off with basic conversation. Someone acknowledging something small such as they love the shirt, dress, shoes, glasses (insert whatever you choose) That makes anyone feel good about themselves to be noticed by someone who appears to have no motivation to say that so it must be true!
Indeed. The difference is that the exit affair is just that. It is not a start to a new marital like relationship with OW/OM. MLCer affairs are different in that often the MLCer will establish a new, years long life with their affair partner.
They start talking casually, finding out things about each other, they laugh, they make jokes, they talk about simple things that married couples who have been together for years have simply forgotten to do as it just doesn't seem so important anymore when you have bills, kids, cleaning, cooking and other responsibilities.
Not all couples forget to compliment their spouse on a daily basis or to talk about simple small things even after many years or marriage. And yet, they still have affairs. And in the case of MLCers, they are after a new marital like relationship, not just some fun. So, they are in fact after a responsability with someone new. They go live with their affair partner, they buy or rent a new house with this person, they have bills to pay. Some MLCers even look after the alienator children or relatives. That makes it different from a regular or exit affair.
While this is the reality of your life, this OP is slowly filling a void that has been neglected for quite sometime. You didn't realize you were neglecting your H/W because you did everything you thought a loving spouse should and your spouse gave you no indication that things were off. It happens!!!
Uhhh... lets assume that the alienator is filling some void of a very depressed person. The void has most likely nothing to do with the LBS and everything to do with the depression. And if a spouse does not mention that there is a void, than the spouse who did not mention the void is the one at fault. This is one thing I noticed you do a lot, denje, you somehow think the LBS is to blame or is at fault or somehow was failling the MLCer at some level, rather than see that all responsability is upon the MLCer.
The depressed MLCer that failed to get help and instead thought it was a good idea to get themselves into the mess MLC is. You still see some things too much like a MLCer/former MLC who hasn't totally got how it is to be a LBS (of someone who did not had a MLC). Things may be different to you since you had a MLC, for those who did not, things are seen very differently.
Plus, the MLCer has a spouse. A spouse the MLCer may had been failling to in many ways, yet the spouse is not having a MLC. And if a person has a MLC and does what MLCers do, they do completly fail their spouse, don't they?
In fact I encourage you if he does reach out for legitimate friendship, and help that you be the lighthouse for him in his darkness.
Why? Even in the articles RCR mentions that it is not possible to be friends with a MLCe that is leading a life with OW/OM. That would be allowing the MLCer to cake eat all the way and having the LBS as their safe heaven every time things are bad for the MLCer.
There is no legitimate friendship with someone that is married to us/has divorced us and is living with someone else. Let alone when they are not paying alimony and blowing all the money with their OW/OM. Actions have consequences, including for the MLCer.
I hope you don't mind what I wrote. But I have been following your threads. There are many interesting things in them, but, for me, you have a very naive, bland vision of MLC and how most MLCers are, as well as how long their crisis last and the many totally crazy things they do. It reads like how to deal with MLC lite, or mild MLCers. Not so much with the reality many of us have/had. And I would not like newbies to think things are so easy, light and can be solved so fast as it sometimes transpires from your posts.
There is certainly very good, useful and hopeful information on your threads, but not everything is MLC is so black and white or so easy.
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Anjae,
I do not pretend to know all the answers for every situation for MLC. I can only speak from my own perspective. Have I been in depression for years upon years? No. I was in my depression for 3 years and it felt short to me but to be honest for those I was hurting it probably felt like eternity. If you asked my H does he think what I did was mild? He would most certainly not agree with you. I am aware that some vanish completely and never return. I am also aware that they cut out of their responsibilities and skip out on alimony and child support. My H also did this to me, completely removed from helping at all with the kids leaving me to figure it out myself.
I am not talking to mostly newbies and beginners, I am talking to anyone who asked me a question about my own personal experience and may benefit from what I have shared. When what I say proves to be not useful then I will no longer share my personal experience. I am not trying to step on anyone toes, or diminish what is going on with other people's marriage. You seem to direct what I say to imply that it fits every scenario. I cant possibly fathom every scenario of MLC. I do know that some on here will never have the chance to reconcile, some spouses will be confident in their decision to leave and stay with OW/OM. I believe I have also stated this before.
You don't know exactly how dark or nasty I was when I was depressed, you are reading my post, but I have not shared every little detail as it is even too much for me to think about. I will end this by just saying you have your opinion, but I don't see the reason for you to come bash me for sharing what I experienced.
Denjef31
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I for 1 AM very grateful for your posts ! For they definitely apply to my situation and honestly I have never read anything into it except for your personal experiences . I never assumed this was a play-by-play book on how to win your man back . So please keep writing Denjef!! Thank you !
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Drnjef, I appreciate your posts and responses SO MUCH! Thank you for sharing your experience. I hope one day this is understood in medical terms like postpartum depression so people can get the help they need.
Your posts have helped me a lot! Especially as a mom to a young son, I'm really grateful you have taken the time to write here.💛
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denjef,
Like my friend Velika, although I have yet to ask you a question yet, I can't begin to say just how much I appreciate you answering others and sharing your experiences.
They mean the world to so many of us it's like you are our lifeline to our MLCers by translaning it better for us.
Please stay.
~Elegance
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Denjef, thank you for taking the time to reply to me and so many others what you say makes absolute sense. I really apprecIate your sharing such difficult stories it cannot be easy reliving this stuff.
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Denjef
I wanted to send you my support too....
This experience helped me to be thick skinned and I am sure, given what you have come through personally and what you are now going through with your H, you too are one tough cookie......and I hope you continue to post
There are many people on here who are eternally grateful for you sharing your experiences and I am one of them
It takes great courage to face yourself as you have done and I applaud your candid replies and willingness to answer everyone's questions it cannot be easy for you, as you too are an LBS on this rollercoaster ride as well......
Those of us on here who have never been in crisis ourselves, have our opinions, or ideas of what our MLC'ers are going through, but unless we have truly been through it will never really understand ......you have so you have far more experience than all of us.
Although we come here because of MLC, each and everyone's journey through this will be different because of the personalities and relationships involved....
I think you are right, there are people on here who's spouse are not in MLC IMO and like you I do not believe in NC unless there is abuse, or the LBS is finding it hard to cope with the emotional rollercoaster and................. and I too believe it is possible to be a distant 'friend' to your MLC'er..........infact this is what my therapist encouraged me to do from the start,( not continual contact but not to let the contact entirely drop)
I do believe the biggest thing an LBS has got is their intuition and their knowledge of the core person (before crisis) and their history with the MLC'er..............its these things as the MLC'er progresses you need to use because there is no one size fits all solutions to this, if there were there would be more reconcilliations
But as there is very little information out there from those who have been in crisis, the information you have been willing to share is invaluable IMO, it helps us to be more compassionate and also to accept there is nothing we can do and this crisis has to reach its conclusion.............whatever it may be.
I did not see anything bland or black and white in your posts, what I saw was you giving us the benefit of YOUR own experience and I want to thank you again for sharing what must be very painful memories I wish you well xx
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Hi Den,
Count me among the ones who REALLY appreciate your candor and openness to relate what YOUR experience was in the depths of the pit.
As you have noted, each and every scenario is different and what you have shared with us (for which I am both eternally grateful and feel a small bit responsible for as I cut this out of my thread and started this one) reflects what it was like for YOU and how YOU perceived the time in the fog.
As convenient as it would be to just use a broad-brush, one-size-fits-all approach, it just ain't gonna work because every situation is different. I mean, in my case, this is the 2nd time I've been down this road. xW had a MASSIVE QLC with a High-Energy replay cycle that lasted about 7-8 years on it's own and was the quintessential Monster (Look up MLC-Monster in Wikipedia and my xW's picture is probably there). This time around, same LBS (me) but a totally different Mid-Lifer... so the whole scenario is different...
Anjae refers to some things that RCR has said and they DO have merit but, even RCR herself says that she is not a professional and her writings are based on HER experience. Stayed (and her H of the famous "Stayed's H's Letter") have yet a third perspective. It is the various bits of information that allow each of us to cherry-pick (if you'll pardon the term) the bits and pieces we feel fit our situation and discard the rest.
What I have noticed so far is that, with a few exceptions, the female Mid-Lifer tends to reawaken more quickly than the males do... This may be because Male LBS's are in a very sharp minority here (I believe 40:1 was the ratio I read somewhere) and, quite honestly, the majority (NOT all) male LBS's seem to be more apt to just move on quickly and stick a fork in the M and call it done.
Bottom line is that I thank you for your willingness to expose the target on your chest and give us your insights as to what it was like behind the curtain.
Thank you!
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Thanks all, I hope what I have shared has helped in your own personal situation. If it doesn't apply to your spouse's MLC I encourage you to keep reading the articles, seek individual counseling for yourself, pray for deliverance from this cruel situation and to be restored of what has been lost. Joy always comes in the morning. It will get worse before it gets better. You will be pulled in directions you didn't know that was possible, and your faith will be tested.
When I have indicated it will get better it just takes time, that is so true whether the spouse returns or not. Sometimes that is also for the best, and the LBS will be better off and happier. I know that seems hard to imagine right now due to the pain, but in life we experience challenges, and what does not kill us will definitely make us stronger. I am very encouraging to have hope, but I am not advocating false hope either. You truly do need to be the best person you can be and offer friendship and love in spite of what has been shown to you. If my husband had been negative and mean to me while I was depressed that certainly would not have motivated me to try or want to repair my marriage. It was his compassion, his consistency, his friendship that eventually spoke to me during those quiet times when I was alone wrestling with my feelings.
From my own experience if you are mean, nasty, and no contact because of the hurt and pain they have caused you sometimes they will feel they have hurt you too deeply and you will never forgive them. That they can never get back to a happy place with you and so they will stay in their adulterous relationship. Totally abandon you and your kids feeling you are better off without them and you are strong so you will eventually move on and you and the kids will be happier without them.
Again, yes I was only in depression for 3 years but I can assure you whether my depression was 3 years, 6 months ,or 10 years the dynamics of depression are the same. Some people have a short stint with depression and some it can last for years and years. It really depends on the individual person willing to do the work of working on themselves and the help of loved ones being there for them with support and love. I wish all of you success in repairing and reconciling your marriages. Thank you all for the kind words of support.
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Hi Den,
Count me among the ones who REALLY appreciate your candor and openness to relate what YOUR experience was in the depths of the pit.
As you have noted, each and every scenario is different and what you have shared with us (for which I am both eternally grateful and feel a small bit responsible for as I cut this out of my thread and started this one) reflects what it was like for YOU and how YOU perceived the time in the fog.
As convenient as it would be to just use a broad-brush, one-size-fits-all approach, it just ain't gonna work because every situation is different. I mean, in my case, this is the 2nd time I've been down this road. xW had a MASSIVE QLC with a High-Energy replay cycle that lasted about 7-8 years on it's own and was the quintessential Monster (Look up MLC-Monster in Wikipedia and my xW's picture is probably there). This time around, same LBS (me) but a totally different Mid-Lifer... so the whole scenario is different...
Anjae refers to some things that RCR has said and they DO have merit but, even RCR herself says that she is not a professional and her writings are based on HER experience. Stayed (and her H of the famous "Stayed's H's Letter") have yet a third perspective. It is the various bits of information that allow each of us to cherry-pick (if you'll pardon the term) the bits and pieces we feel fit our situation and discard the rest.
What I have noticed so far is that, with a few exceptions, the female Mid-Lifer tends to reawaken more quickly than the males do... This may be because Male LBS's are in a very sharp minority here (I believe 40:1 was the ratio I read somewhere) and, quite honestly, the majority (NOT all) male LBS's seem to be more apt to just move on quickly and stick a fork in the M and call it done.
Bottom line is that I thank you for your willingness to expose the target on your chest and give us your insights as to what it was like behind the curtain.
Thank you!
Thanks UM,
Please don't feel responsible because you are not. I shared and I answered questions. I didn't know it would be helpful or encouraging for anybody I just felt the strong desire to share from my perspective of what I went thru. I agree with you totally, MLC is not a one size fits all, and I hope I didn't give anybody that impression in the slightest. Each situation will be different and if what I have shared seems to apply to your situation or you see resemblances of what I shared in your personal situation please take what you need from what I have said here and leave the rest. It may be useful to someone else.
I read threads and some of what I have read doesn't fit my situation with H, or what I did when I was depressed but even still I learn new things and I am thankful for people sharing their experiences. It is definitely not easy to expose the most hurtful things we probably will ever experience besides death. Yet here we are exposing all of our flaws and our spouses flaws trying to understand what is really unfathomable. God Bless You All!!
Denjef31
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Denjaf,
I hope you know just how much I appreciate your perspective. I've thanked you over and over. You are such a strong person, to be going through this yourself, yet sharing your perspective with all of us.
What we do with it, is up to us. You are not responsible for our actions, our feelings, our relationships. You have given us a glimpse into your world, and I know it comes at a cost to you to share it with us.
Thank you!
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Denjef - every post is just so informative I totally agree with all that you say. We have to drop the ego and think about the longer term goals than just short terms wins. I'm definitely playing the long game. It may make us feel better in that instant to fight fire with fire or push for answers but bottom line that wont foster connection. I think what 1trouble said about intuition is also really important - my counsellor echoed it too - we have known our spouses for a long time and know their core personality and this is what we should keep hold of. I genuinely believe there is a lesson in all of this for me and for my H. I'm learning so much, seeing where we could be so much better and I'm invested in a better future. So it comes back to patience and building myself up to be as strong as possible to be able to handle the next part of this journey....
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Denjef,
You have offered me great insight as to what a female mlc er goes through. I see many parallels between your experience and my W. Your writings are a breath of fresh air. I am very appreciative of the time and effort that you have made to share with us your experiences.
Thanks again.
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I have been following this thread and too want to thank you for all your insight from your own experiences.
I suppose from what you've written, I am now wondering if I've blown it with my H. Bomb drop 2.5 years ago, 7 week affair with colleague, he moved straight in with her and her kids and he has been living there ever since.
Initially he would text me re contact with the kids, all teenagers, even although he had already made the arrangements with them and was 'telling' me what they had arranged. I would just reply 'ok'. He would pick whichever teen it was in the driveway and never came to the door. 10 months later I just stopped replying. I have not texted him spoken to him or seen him since May 2015. All correspondence through our lawyers.
He has not filed for divorce and nor have I yet although I may have to as he has raised a court action to force the sale of our house even although it is part of the financial settlement. He just wants his money from the house and wants to forget about everything else eg pensions etc
He does text the kids although sees them all separately never all together and at best sees them once or twice a month, he only lives 20 minutes away. My daughter who is the youngest was seeing him once a month but over the last couple of months he is seeing her every fortnight, his choice, and she has said that he seems more like her old Dad. I suppose I'm wondering if he is trying to keep them on side knowing that he is taking me to court to force the sale of the house !
Anyway long story short, I have remained dignified and basically let him go to do what he needs to do but because I have no contact with him at all will he think that I don't want him or gave up on him ? and if I do have to file for divorce so the house is not sold separately will that convince him even more that there is no way back ?
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Denjef
I would also like to thank you for sharing.
I have been at this for 51/2 years.......I have good and bad days like everyone else. I struggle to understand it all even though I know I shouldn't as none of it makes sense. I often doubt that xH is having a MLC and think that maybe he genuinely just wanted a new life.......Then you or another LBS will post something that just gives that little glimmer of hope that encourages me to continue my stand.
NC baffles me......I have done it on several occasions because it's what I needed to do for me. Now we are NC since September except when I congratulated him on his new job but I'm guessing I got a response as it was about him. It is xH who does not return my texts whether they are about the children or when I text him to say I wasn't happy that he used our D to tell me about OW [I thought I at least deserved to hear it from him] but that if he was happy he shouldn't have a problem with me [feel the need to be rude].
He has said on countless occasions I am stronger than him and will find happiness again with someone else. He said it to my D when he announced OW but I always feel like he is asking if I'm with someone else.
I worry as now the children have found out about OW they want nothing to do with him......not becuase of OW as he and I are divorced so he's not being unfaithful but because he lies to them and breaks promises all the time and allows someone elses Son to call him Dad. As much as I have encouraged the children to have a relationship there are some things I will not justify.
I text xH a month ago saying I was happy for him, that there are things I regret not doing and saying when we were married, he has left a massive void in my life, I can't quite believe we will never share our lives again, I always hoped one day he would want to return, I can't change his choices, I love him but I understand he is moving on with his life and no longer loves me.......wrong I know but I just needed to say it.
He never replied to my text.
I guess my question is-
"Are the children doing more harm by wanting nothing to do with him or is it making his life easier and giving him justification for his actions"
"What do I do about NC......Should I leave him alone, does he need time to process if so what happens if weeks turn into months or should I at some point initiate contact.
Thanks you
Devoted
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Denjef, thank you for addressing the newbie issue on this thread. I say this personally, newbies follow your intuiton, if NC is your gut feeling: go with it. This site is to help you make choices based on the many examples here. If you are a newbie, consider the sources before you take any advice.
Denjef has gone through an MLC and is offering her take, and her take only. The debate about NC is just that: a debate. I'm for it personally, others are not. Make your own decisions. I have noticed there are some on these threads and other posts that take rejecting their ideas, opinions and advice as personal attacks, they shouldn't but they do. Do what you feel is best.
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Denjef - every post is just so informative I totally agree with all that you say. We have to drop the ego and think about the longer term goals than just short terms wins. I'm definitely playing the long game. It may make us feel better in that instant to fight fire with fire or push for answers but bottom line that wont foster connection. I think what 1trouble said about intuition is also really important - my counsellor echoed it too - we have known our spouses for a long time and know their core personality and this is what we should keep hold of. I genuinely believe there is a lesson in all of this for me and for my H. I'm learning so much, seeing where we could be so much better and I'm invested in a better future. So it comes back to patience and building myself up to be as strong as possible to be able to handle the next part of this journey....
THIS is an AMEN post!
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Thanks BB !!!
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Denjef,
Please keep answering the questions to the best of your ability, and please don't pull any punches. Some of us are appreciative of the fact that you are doing this at all. The vulnerability that you have shown is courageous. We don't know anyone's full story on HS, I've stated this before on a post for MrsMedfly last year sometime. Let's be honest, not even RCR could put all on the forum of what she went through.
Please keep in mind that we are sharing our experiences and that most of the people who put on these posts are doing it to help themselves as well as others. Having said this, not all content is for everyone. There is no one size fits all solution. It is what it is. Take what you need, and disregard the rest. It's just a forum, not therapy.
I'm firm believer that if you aren't violating the forums' rules, then you should be able to have your say without being attacked for it. Not all of us can handle all of the content presented, but we should show enough maturity and respect for the person having their say.
IF something is hitting a nerve, then maybe at that point in time, a moment to contemplate maybe a better option? I have a 24 hr rule when it comes to posting something contraversial on these threads now. As much for myself as for anyone else that might want to get into the fray. Some debates are worth having, others are just fights to prove who's right. Enough already and let's stick to the topics at hand.
Just my take.
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Den, what would you have done if the choice wasn't yours anymore? If your h got fed up and divorced you ? Of course during the time you would go for him then run back to om . It seems it was a game for you . How did you feel when you would be teasing your h ? Like he was a piece of $h!te ? Garbage? His feelings didn't matter? He was a doormat ? A chump?
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Den, what would you have done if the choice wasn't yours anymore? If your h got fed up and divorced you ? Of course during the time you would go for him then run back to om . It seems it was a game for you . How did you feel when you would be teasing your h ? Like he was a piece of $h!te ? Garbage? His feelings didn't matter? He was a doormat ? A chump?
I am sure that Denjef will have an answer.
I think that during the crisis, our MLCers do not think much about what we might be feeling because it all about them, not us. They probably know, deep down, that they are not acting honorably, however, it is more important the elusive search for their own happiness and wellbeing, not ours.
JMHO - then again, I have not been in such a crisis, so, what do I know?
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Denjef has been wonderful to all of us. I don't think anyone should say anything hurtful to her. It is an amazing person to get on this site and be willing to help all of us that have so many questions about MLC. All MLC are not the same, but any bit of advise that helps, is wonderful. I hope and pray that Denjef, continues to share with those of us that appreciate what she is doing. I am sure it is not easy for her. Thank you Denjef. I appreciate you and the support you are giving to all of us.
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Denjef has been wonderful to all of us. I don't think anyone should say anything hurtful to her. It is an amazing person to get on this site and be willing to help all of us that have so many questions about MLC. All MLC are not the same, but any bit of advise that helps, is wonderful. I hope and pray that Denjef, continues to share with those of us that appreciate what she is doing. I am sure it is not easy for her. Thank you Denjef. I appreciate you and the support you are giving to all of us.
I agree Strength!
She has been very courageous in sharing her insights.
Kudos to you Denjef and Thank You
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The newbie issue is a huge one. Everybody thought for a guy like me, it should be easy to dump her and run like hell and believe me, I got fed up with getting the same advice over and over and I know you all know me from here and how I'm slowly getting untwisted.. ;D
People like to hand out black and white advice for a gray area problem; it's even easier to do online when you're only seeing the movie one frame at a time. It's hard .. that's all I can say. If you're going to give advice, filter it through letting them know it's ok to do what's right for them..
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Den, what would you have done if the choice wasn't yours anymore? If your h got fed up and divorced you ? Of course during the time you would go for him then run back to om . It seems it was a game for you . How did you feel when you would be teasing your h ? Like he was a piece of $h!te ? Garbage? His feelings didn't matter? He was a doormat ? A chump?
I remember Sewing 22 saying that it was about knowing that that caring was still there. She said she needed to know that he still cared. It wasn't until her XH put his foot down that she stopped. It really is all about them.
One of my male friends said that it made him feel empowered. He also felt more confident to run around ( invincible is a better word ), and that he could still come back home. Confident that she still loved him and would stay right where she was. Boy is he regretting how he was now. At the present time, his wife is going through and MLC and he's seeing the damage that he's done being on the receiving end. Denjef has stated that her husband had been doing similar things to her. What comes around goes around happened. I think that she too has an intimate knowledge of how it feels to be on the receiving end.
She stated that it repulses her to think of how she acted throughout her MLC. What more do you want blood? I know you're angry, but she's not the one that should be getting the brunt. She's doing her best to make amends by helping us. Please give that some consideration while you're on her thread.
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Den, what would you have done if the choice wasn't yours anymore? If your h got fed up and divorced you ? Of course during the time you would go for him then run back to om . It seems it was a game for you . How did you feel when you would be teasing your h ? Like he was a piece of $h!te ? Garbage? His feelings didn't matter? He was a doormat ? A chump?
I will address this because I don't like the way it was worded or what it seems to imply. The choice is not mine anymore right now, and I am standing because I love him. I knew I loved him and that I always would. Even in the fog when I was the most despicable person to him he still was my first real true love. No man has ever touched my heart the way he has. I still saw myself growing old with him. I was not playing a game, none of the MLC'er are playing a game. They are hurting, they are scared of the future, and they are scared to make the necessary changes within to grow.
I never treated H like garbage, but I did treat him as if I didn't love him anymore, and that there was no chance of reconciliation as I loved him but not inlove with him or so I thought. My affections and concerns were fixated on OM at that time, and yes it was hurtful to H but I couldn't help myself. I felt entitled to feel what I was feeling. I felt entitled to start over, to be happy. If that meant hurting H feelings, I felt he would be okay he could get over it as he is a very attractive man and has a lot of admirable and good qualities about him he would be a great catch for some nice women.
I lied to my H about everything, I lived a double life. I pretended to be sick of him, of us because I just couldn't tell him I met and wanted to be with someone else. When the fog lifted, I came clean and confessed to everything. He cried his eyes out and I felt like scum on the bottom of somebody's shoe. He will occasionally bring it back up so I know it is something he will never forget, and I will perhaps spend the rest of my life showing him I will never portray him again.
I do not believe if H walked out and divorced me in the middle of the thick fog that I would have just gave up and walked into OM arms. It would have turned my world upside down, and deflated the big ego I had. I knew the whole time OM was just a distraction, and it would not last at least for me. I hurt OM, as he was really wanting a future and a relationship with me but it was never meant to be. My heart already belonged to someone else but the feelings were hidden and buried deep within. At the time I didn't feel that way I wanted to divorce H and move on with my life and no I didn't give a rats ass about his feelings at the time. That's what the fog does to a person.
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Amen!! It saddens me that this has gone way off topic . I come here because I am hurting and this is my place of comfort . The last thing that I want to read is all of the tearing down and nasty comments . I'm here to be uplifted and encouraged- not to walk away feeling injured again and worse then when I came to the site . Each one of us is hurting...
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The newbie issue is a huge one. Everybody thought for a guy like me, it should be easy to dump her and run like hell and believe me, I got fed up with getting the same advice over and over and I know you all know me from here and how I'm slowly getting untwisted.. ;D
People like to hand out black and white advice for a gray area problem; it's even easier to do online when you're only seeing the movie one frame at a time. It's hard .. that's all I can say. If you're going to give advice, filter it through letting them know it's ok to do what's right for them..
Gman,
You know I got the same advice, let go and detach. Yes it is true that's what we have to do but getting there is no easy task. It hurts like hell, you don't want to let go, you don't want them to think it's over and not repairable. It was very hard for me to finally let it go and stop begging, pleading, manipulating the situation and I know first hand what it does to your spouse when you do that. When my H tried everything he knew to do it just made him very unattractive to me and made me more confident in my decision to pursue OM and see what else was out there.
Everyone says detach but not really how to do that. It is something that takes time and what works for some may not work for others that's for sure. I have told close friends of what I am going through and I was given the advice to go no contact and move the hell on. My intuition was telling me not so fast denjef31, he waited and fought for you...if its real and the love is still there then I should fight for him as the saying goes it aint over til it's over. Coming here reading others standing for their marriage like my H did for 3 years just felt right. It felt like I was amongst people who were and are experiencing what I am going through. I was so resistant to applying what I already knew from my own experience and the good advice given here. I finally let go of the emotional rope a few months back and it was like having a front row seat again to the same behaviors I did to my H.
I really cant even describe it to give MLC a clear picture to someone who hasn't experienced it as it just looks like fun times for the MLC'er, but it isn't. At least for me it was not. I completely 100% relate to the frustration of being told to move on and let go.
Denjef31
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Seriously,
we are all hurting in some way or another but the lashing out has got to stop. This is supposed to be a safe place for all of us to get the support and comfort we need. This is not a place for attacks of any kind. There are many things that we will all disagree on but you do not have to make your disagreements known in a nasty and vile way. Remember that most of us here have been on the receiving end of some pretty hurtful comments.
Den, you have helped many people here and for that we are all thankful for your insight and comments.
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Sorry Denjef, I was posting at the same time as you . Thank you for sharing!!
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Den , Om gosh . In no way did I intend to sound mean or attacking . I'm at work so I just type fast to get my question out there. It's funny you say that , my h actually has told me ( it's been 2 .5 years) and it has inflated his ego . He said he thought I would have given up by now . Now this is confusing because. If I would have given up would he have stopped already? But you said you knew you would spend the rest of your life with h , it does seem like it was a game to you . Do you see my point ? When you came close then he did , then you ran again. Honestly with all the mixed signals and confusion. What's your best advice for an lbs when all this coming and going is going on and as an lbs you get frustrated and feel used , like a doormat . That pull must be very strong if you had an idea that you would be with your h for the rest of your life but yet kept it up with om ,
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Den, what would you have done if the choice wasn't yours anymore? If your h got fed up and divorced you ? Of course during the time you would go for him then run back to om . It seems it was a game for you . How did you feel when you would be teasing your h ? Like he was a piece of $h!te ? Garbage? His feelings didn't matter? He was a doormat ? A chump?
I feel fortunate Denjef is here. It's a wonderful thing she is doing. Please don't confuse her with whoever it was that hurt you. These type of posts will drive her away when so many of us see just how valuable her staying here answering questions is.
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Oh I must have interpreted it wrong. It may seem like a game to some from what I wrote. That's the way I was thinking at the time, that's what MLC is depression and confusion. On one hand I wanted nothing to do with him, but I didn't want him to move on with anyone else. On one hand I wanted and saw a life with OM, but I knew deep within me somewhere that I was suppose to be with H. I knew it would not last with OM, but I pursued it anyway. I completely gave up and abandon everything for something I deep down knew had no potential to go anywhere and that was not because OM didn't want to it was because I subconsciously even in the fog would only let it go so far I guess.
I cant explain why I believed my future would someday be with my H again, as any "sane" person would draw the conclusion if you knew that, felt that why then would you go through all that hurting, pain, and running if I knew the whole time? Well because a part of me didn't want that to be my life, didn't want to grow up, I didn't want to give up the emotional highs I was getting from this new relationship that was so going so well as OM "got me" we just clicked and it was easy and effortless.
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Den... your response to Keep believing's post has touched a cord with me. I want to thank you for taking the time to respond and being so candid. My experience with my H and how I treated him during my mist/fog time did not go down the path of OM. But I hurt him just as badly... through my lack of action, my withdraw from him, from us... I've realized lately that I made him feel horrible emotionally in ways that at the time, I just didn't get because I was wallowing in my own lack of self.
I've had to work on forgiving not just my H, but myself... because I can't allow this guilt that I was feeling about how I was treating him to stay. And oh, during this time where we are reconnecting... it was hard, so hard to hear these things from my H and how I needed to understand what I had done to him emotionally.
I didn't insult him, I didn't physically abuse him... but I feel that by me not taking care of my past childhood issues, not taking responsibility for me and who I was early on in our marriage... contributed to how I treated him and the burden that I placed on him to create my happiness for me. And our conversations that we have had since we started to reconnect have revealed that deep pain I was causing him. It's really a wonder that he hasn't left me.
I just wanted to say thank you... because I feel like your response, as painful as it probably was to respond to, gave me some insight into myself and some things that I am still working on.
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Hmmm i suppose thats the addiction part. You know you will lose your h if you dont give it up. Just as an addict. They know if they dont give it up they will lose eveything. Eventual becoming homeless. But for the some addicts/ mlc er always find somewhere to go if they havent burnt all bridges. So they keep going. And that thing " just one more time" .
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You know Keep Believing, I watch that show on A&E Intervention. I started watching it a few years ago and took an extreme interest in it. Perhaps because I had a brother and a sister that were drug addicts. They have fully recovered but it was not without a high price. They both lost everything. My sister lost her job, her kids, her home, and went to jail for 2 years for shoplifting. My sister is so pretty, a college graduate and had everything going for her and lost it just like that. She couldn't resist the pull of the addiction. She lost it all went to jail and there got help and started to rebuild relationships with her kids and family, and let go of the people who enabled her to keep living that life.
Same thing with my brother, him and my sister would get high together. He also had to go to jail and it still took him years and I mean years to get clean and do something with his life. Both are drug free now, married and doing quite well. They had to hit their rock bottom and it happened for my sister much quicker than it did for my brother. So yes it is just like an addict refusing to give up the feeling from getting high. You know it is bad for you and hurting people but you just cant resist. We tell ourselves we will stop, we got it under control but we know it is not true. Just what we need to tell ourselves to make it okay to get another fix of OP.
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That is the interesting part . I am struggling with this part of MLC right now . The more I keep getting a life and working on myself the more he comes at me . Which is hard because I do just fine now by myself . I don't think of him often like I used to or I should say my every thought was consumed by him . But as soon as he enters the picture again and especially when he wants to be physical in the good sense.... It tugs at my heartstrings . I struggle with if I keep pushing him away will he eventually stop . In the same token the more I seem to push them away more determined he becomes . It's a vicious cycle ! There are days that I don't want him to stop by because it's just easier that way , emotionally . He's been opening up to me more and talking to me more yet he still goes back to live with OW . We've come to a strange area and this now relationship where I can see glimmers of my old H and he treats me kind and wants to make sure that my well-being is cared for but I guess he doesn't want to be married to me . From the very beginning because he is a recovering alcoholic I could see the triggers and the self sabotaging but I never in my wildest dreams thought it would've been an OW I thought it would've been a relapse . In the beginning I even said she was the new drug of choice . Any suggestions Denjef on how I should be handling this ?
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Just as you are Butterfly. You are doing all that you can do. It is so easy, but the most difficult thing to master. I see positives in what you have shared, keep your eyes on the goal and not about what is not happening today. MLC takes time, he wont jump back in to the marriage. You are being tested, he is checking the anchor, he is re-inserting you ever so slowly into his life he just doesn't know quite yet, where you fit in all of this. If you have it in you to see where this goes you just need to follow his lead and let him come to you. Let him continue to peak out of the tunnel and take these baby steps towards you.
Don't get frustrated stay the course Butterfly!!!! You can do this :)
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Thank you so much Denjef!! There are days I just question if I'm doing the right thing or not . I try my best to give it to God yet the last thing I want to do is make a mistake . No matter what I believe whatever the outcome to be as God's will . It's just when I see the glimmers of the old H it's hard not to have my heart touched. And then in my cycling , I think he must be up to something and he's just been kind because he so happy with OW . Thank you for your gracious support ! I will stay the course! God bless
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Thank you Denjef for responding to my question.
I do feel like h goes in circles. Now after months of me telling him that our children aren't ok he says they need counseling. It's insulting really. Because I kept telling him they weren't ok Snd he told me I was being dramatic. That when he sees them they are fine. That its me , etc.
now he has all of a sudden forced me out of coming to his family parties. My kids are hurt and confused. He has never even told them why or that he was moving out . He refuses to face them. They are hurt and confused. When asked why I wasn't coming to parties he told them it was my decision. He can't even be honest with the kids. No accountability.
I'm wondering why now during the most family time of year that he doesn't want me to come. Enough that he'd hurt the kids.
My h family is asking if I'm coming tomorrow to a party for our niece. I babysat her from the time she was a newborn.
My kids want me to go. But I feel so unwanted by h.
It's so painful, I feel like he just took scissors and cut me out.
Every time I think he can't hurt me more he does. I feel like the person who loved me the most can't stand me.
Did anyone else go through this with being cut out and know why.
Denjef , did you and your H continue going to functions together !
We have been since BD , but now he doesnt want me with his family.
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Den. Im curious as to what you feel and think about the om now? Do you think he is a jerk for being with you, married and all? How much of the memories you have together with him do you think of? Does it feel good at all or are you groosed out when you think of when you were with him?
Also im wondering if your h ever cut down your om. If so how did that make you feel? did you stick up for om? And if you did , did you feel bad for doing so ? Did you feel like you were betraying your h when you would do this? Thank you for your input. I cant tell you how much better i feel because of your honesty about your crisis.
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I also am curious about your thoughts of OM.
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I am sorry, if I hurt you, denje. That was not my intention.
Anjae refers to some things that RCR has said and they DO have merit but, even RCR herself says that she is not a professional and her writings are based on HER experience. Stayed (and her H of the famous "Stayed's H's Letter") have yet a third perspective. It is the various bits of information that allow each of us to cherry-pick (if you'll pardon the term) the bits and pieces we feel fit our situation and discard the rest.
Yes, what Ursa said. My experience of MLC is very different from yours, RCR or Stayed. My MLCersis a nasty one that remains bitter and in replay more than ten years down the road and no approach has made a difference. He is also one of the, fortunately few, MLCers that has been physically abusive.
I had a short, mild crisis of my own, but it cannot be compared to Mr J's one. He is in another league.
There are more things I would like to debate and ask, but not now. I am tired, my grandmother is very ill and I do not have the head space to debate or for questions and thoughts a thread like this requires.
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From my own experience if you are mean, nasty, and no contact because of the hurt and pain they have caused you sometimes they will feel they have hurt you too deeply and you will never forgive them. That they can never get back to a happy place with you and so they will stay in their adulterous relationship. Totally abandon you and your kids feeling you are better off without them and you are strong so you will eventually move on and you and the kids will be happier without them.
Denjef, I have drafted so many questions to you but this quote is so relevant to what I've been trying to ask
He thinks I can never forgive him so he's keeping away. He says he loves me but hasn't got the strength to fight for me ( maybe because he doesn't want me enough ? ) and he sees the OW as the easy option, she is so desperate to be with him ( mainly because of his job ) that she will accept anything. She has even told him that she doesn't care that he still loves me, she wants to be with him anyway. I know he's incredibly ashamed but it seems to be a case of he thinks he's made his bed
He has never asked to come home, he has never asked anything really, he told me he wanted me to forgive him and I said we should spend time with each other to see where it went, so he left OW and lived locally, but separate, back in Nov 2015 and we tried to reconnect, but he was still drowning in shame and guilt and became defensive and blame shifting - I hadn't found this site at that time so I wanted begging and pleading and most importantly answers . I learnt a lot from him and much of what he said is how you describe things. He said he 'thought' he loved OW, but now knows he doesn't, he said had the choice of having one woman angry with him or two, that he cried every day and the favourite part of his day was when she went to work, so it certainly wasn't a happy relationship with OW. After a few months of trying with me, I was so disappointed with his attitude that I told him I wasn't interested because he was too selfish and we stopped contact in April. I thought he was working on sorting himself out, but he went back to OW a few months later. He has since told me he still loves me but he KNOWS I will never forgive him, but I've never said that
I still think he wants me to ask him to come back and just forget anything ever happened, but I don't think I'm strong enough to do that, I need him to ask, I need an apology, I need to be told he loves me enough to work through this
So now, it's polite business emails only ( I work for his company ). I sent a personal message when I heard he was ill and he replied politely but that's all. I am GAL and he has told me how impressed he is with how I've coped with everything ( I also feel like he resents that a bit too ).
I don't think he feels like he's scared to lose me, I feel like he thinks he lost me a long time ago. He doesn't seem to have heard any of the hopeful, positive things I've said since this blew up, he is definitely depressed, I don't think there's much hope for us to reconcile. I would like to see if we could, but I'm getting confused about not chasing him ( I'm not ) and paving the way. Do you think I should still not initiate any contact ?
I'm finding your posts so enlightening, thank you for taking so much time to help us all get an insight into what's going on with our MLCers. I understand you're busy with studies, exams and your own roller coaster, but if you have time I would be really grateful if you could give me your opinion and I'm so grateful for everything you've shared here 😊
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I will respond to the questions asked, but I just got back in the house, and I am feeling tired so I will respond tomorrow when I have a clear head and not so sleepy. Good nite and god bless
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Denjef, I like many others on here take great value and inspiration from your story and the answers you graciously give. I just want to say thank you, you have helped clear up some questions I have(some I didn't know I had as well), I see many aspects of your story, your crisis mirrored in what I see in W.
You and many others on here have made this process easier to bare with your knowledge and insight.
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From my own experience if you are mean, nasty, and no contact because of the hurt and pain they have caused you sometimes they will feel they have hurt you too deeply and you will never forgive them. That they can never get back to a happy place with you and so they will stay in their adulterous relationship. Totally abandon you and your kids feeling you are better off without them and you are strong so you will eventually move on and you and the kids will be happier without them.
Denjef, I have drafted so many questions to you but this quote is so relevant to what I've been trying to ask
He thinks I can never forgive him so he's keeping away. He says he loves me but hasn't got the strength to fight for me ( maybe because he doesn't want me enough ? ) and he sees the OW as the easy option, she is so desperate to be with him ( mainly because of his job ) that she will accept anything. She has even told him that she doesn't care that he still loves me, she wants to be with him anyway. I know he's incredibly ashamed but it seems to be a case of he thinks he's made his bed
He has never asked to come home, he has never asked anything really, he told me he wanted me to forgive him and I said we should spend time with each other to see where it went, so he left OW and lived locally, but separate, back in Nov 2015 and we tried to reconnect, but he was still drowning in shame and guilt and became defensive and blame shifting - I hadn't found this site at that time so I wanted begging and pleading and most importantly answers . I learnt a lot from him and much of what he said is how you describe things. He said he 'thought' he loved OW, but now knows he doesn't, he said had the choice of having one woman angry with him or two, that he cried every day and the favourite part of his day was when she went to work, so it certainly wasn't a happy relationship with OW. After a few months of trying with me, I was so disappointed with his attitude that I told him I wasn't interested because he was too selfish and we stopped contact in April. I thought he was working on sorting himself out, but he went back to OW a few months later. He has since told me he still loves me but he KNOWS I will never forgive him, but I've never said that
I still think he wants me to ask him to come back and just forget anything ever happened, but I don't think I'm strong enough to do that, I need him to ask, I need an apology, I need to be told he loves me enough to work through this
So now, it's polite business emails only ( I work for his company ). I sent a personal message when I heard he was ill and he replied politely but that's all. I am GAL and he has told me how impressed he is with how I've coped with everything ( I also feel like he resents that a bit too ).
I don't think he feels like he's scared to lose me, I feel like he thinks he lost me a long time ago. He doesn't seem to have heard any of the hopeful, positive things I've said since this blew up, he is definitely depressed, I don't think there's much hope for us to reconcile. I would like to see if we could, but I'm getting confused about not chasing him ( I'm not ) and paving the way. Do you think I should still not initiate any contact ?
SHF - you have very accurately described where I'm at as well. But my exH has never tried (yet) to reconnect and has never once since BD told me he loves me. There's been no monstering from him. There's been no pleading, begging, crying from me. I have coped well with running our home by myself, which includes doing an outdoor wood boiler for heat. I do think you're right in that the MLCer resents it when we don't fall apart and let everything go.
I don't initiate ANY contact and I respond to his texts factually (none since the first part of September). I certainly am not paving the way because there just is no contact at all between us. If I were to contact him I feel as though it makes me look "needy" and trying to compete for his attention and that is not me. I will never, ever beg anyone to be with me. So.....it's pretty much NC.
Maybe my exH feels as denjef did. If so, based on her experience my NC will probably help to keep him in the stupid relationship he's in with a very nasty affair down OW. If so, there's nothing I can do about it and I've accepted it. I continue to take one day at a time, work on getting stronger and finding joy in the way my life is headed. It's all I can do. It seems you are working hard on doing the same.
I think you are doing very well.
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Stillbaffled,
That's a great way to look at it. I know that my XH resents my moving forward. Boy has he been a thorn in my side for the past year since the divorce. I personally don't care if he ever tries to come back, I'm way beyond that now.
He's a clinging boomerang that has resorted to all sorts of nasty things to do now that I'm NC. I do believe that the AD/OW is behind much of what's going on, and that is all the more reason why I'm NC. I'm not giving her the satisfaction of thinking that she somehow "won". At this point, he's the booby prize in my eyes. So cheers to them!
Mine is now trying to reconnect with the kids, and I'm staying completely out of it. It's his journey, and he's her problem now. I'm just sick of the game playing. As far as I'm concerned, I'll accept an apology if I ever get one. I doubt that his pride or ego will ever let him. But, in the end my younger girls and I have finally detached, I'm more indifferent than anything else.
I know that mine hasn't even attempted a real apology. Even when he gave one to the kids, in front of AD/OW. He just went back to EA so, we're forging ahead.
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Hi Den
I just want to say a VERY late thank you for your reply to my question pages and pages back. It was a very thoughtful and helpful reply. This thread is SO insightful I'm back to doing one of my copy and paste jobs - into a Word doc - so I can read through everything later, when not on the computer.
All I can is, keep bringing these insights, if you can. I think they're among the finest and most helpful anywhere on site.
I'm D'ing my H t the moment, so reckoning I'm pretty detached. But actually, I know I'm not. Almost - maybe 75 per cent there.... But still a little attached around the edges. Still sad about the end of our 24 year marriage. Still regretful that so much has been wrecked for a dis-ease that could have been fixed.
I think once the D is final, I really will start pursuing my New Life and building from the ground up. I'm doing this now, to some extent, but I'll really consider him gone one he's gone, if you see what I mean. (I've been standing for 5.5 years till finally, I realised when I asked him, yes he DOES want a D. So we're D'ing). If it does lead him to look over his shoulder at what he's lost, well, I'll be sure to let you all know! :) I do feel we were joined at the hip (spiritually... you know... by an invisible thread), so in theory, I figure that should mean he'll never entirely forget.
We'll see. Big thanks again Den. Keep posting the wisdom.
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Probably a silly question, but since I'm new here, is there a Part 1 anywhere??
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Probably a silly question, but since I'm new here, is there a Part 1 anywhere??
Yes, here it is: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412 (http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412)
Generally, you will find the link to a previous thread in the first post of a thread.
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Thank you so much, Mitzpah ;)
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After awhile Never, you'll be a pro at this. :)
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Just wanted to join in on thanking you Den. I know it is extremely painful for you to essentially re-live a point in your life that you are not so proud of. But you do it b/c you are a kind, caring and compassionate soul. Thank you for your bravery too!
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Hello Everybody,
I really didn't feel all that well this weekend so I took a much needed reprieve to get some rest and relax as my neck, shoulder was in pain. Think I pulled a muscle during clinicals. Then I felt nauseated all weekend. I feel much better, got a 94 on my pharmacology final class exam, and another test tomorrow. In fact all this week as this is the end of this quarter I will be pretty much having a test thru Friday. Bear with me please.
I know I have some post to respond to and I will, hate that it is taking longer than expected as I know the feeling with wanting a question answered. I will be back soon
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Aw den,
You don't worry about it right now.
Rest up. No ones going anywhere. :)
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Den congrats on your test and good luck on the rest of them.
Take all the time you need we will be here and besides you don't need to explain yourself, we all appreciate your knowledge and advice.
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StillBaffled,
I feel for you. MLC can be very frustrating when they peek out then go back into the tunnel. From what you said it sounds as your H ended it with OW, he was still dealing with his depression and probably withdrawal from the OW. At that time maybe he picked up a vibe, misread what he believe to be what you were feeling, or perhaps you said things out of frustration that lead him to believe that you would never be able to truly forgive him and let it go so rebuilding and healing can begin.
Not saying that is the case, I am saying that at that time it was easier for H to run back to OW then to face the pain and hurt he has caused. Is it fair to the LBS that we have to walk on eggshells, humbles ourselves beyond sanity, tread lightly because our spouse is having a MLC? NO it isn't, but at the same token it is what we the LBS end up doing to some degree to show that forgiveness is within reach, happier times are ahead, and that the marriage can be better than it ever was before.
I feel as LBS that I am eating crow right now, to show my H that I have forgiven him, that I can be and we can be a happy married couple again. I feel I am taking on more of the burden than he is. I also know that I desire to fix the marriage more than he does right now so I have to do more than my fair share to get us there. I throw truth darts when it is necessary but I often hold back more than I want to. I don't say everything that is on my mind, I don't share my hurts, my frustration with him. I don't cry, I don't complain. I know that would serve no purpose right now but send him back to what is easier for him.
Your H has turned away for now, but that doesn't mean that he will not try again. OW has to let up on her façade and the wall has to start crumbling more and the chatter in his head has to get louder again for him to have to try again. Sometimes it takes multiple false returns for the MLC'er to make the commitment. If he should want to reconnect and try again, can you be strong enough for the both of you to bite your tongue, put your hurt to the side temporarily so he can have trust to lean on you and heal?
Denjef31
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I couldn't resist not posting to at least one question :D I will be back tomorrow after school :)
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:)
94 on pharmacology...AWESOME!!!!!
Take good care of yourself...we'll still be here (unfortunately!)
Thank you for sharing your experiences...even for a old timer like me, it is still always helpful to hear what an MLCer is going through and how similar the stories are.
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New Thread, moderators please close this one.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8491.0