Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: BrenM on March 10, 2017, 07:57:48 PM
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I have come across this article on "What is Midlife Crisis". Very interesting and soooo MLC Script, thought I would share with all the beautiful souls whose lives have been touched by the medically non-existent/non-recognized MLC epidemic......apparently we too are living a dream/nightmare (definitely no fantasy 👺)!
My MLCer told me that he needed space and that I deserved better....yes I certainly did and do 😂. Guess you have to see the funny side of their lunatic behaviors 😬. He also told me that he left me because I wore flannelette pyjamas pants to bed....excuse me they are comfortable and I stopped wearing the sexy lingerie after kids, for obvious reasons. For many years it did not bother him. They came off easier and quicker for intimacy then lingerie 💋For the record I now wear sexy lingerie....for me....he is missing out....after participating involuntarily in the MLCer LBS Diet (😜) my body is in good shape....he is missing out big time lol. I am beginning to think that I might be good enough 👡👗👠👡💃👸 after having my self confidence destroyed and shattered. Such a dark period for a once very confident woman to endure 😢.
Looking back we see the pathetic excuses for what they are. Yes they appear to be script for so many of us. ❤
MLC Script: Reasons for leaving and justifications for behavior many MLCers give
I need space.
I need to be on my own.
I need to go away and find myself.
I need to be alone.
I want a new life.
I’m becoming the man I always should have been.
I need to find happiness.
It’s time for me to be happy.
I haven’t been happy for years.
I want to be selfish for once in my life.
It’s my turn to be selfish now.
I’m tired of spending my life doing what everyone else wants.
I feel like I’m dying.
I was suffocating.
You suck the life out of me.
If I didn’t leave, I’d die.
I had to leave.
I tried.
The marriage is killing me.
I don’t give a damn what anyone else thinks.
I love you but I’m not in love with you.
I don’t love you the way I should.
I haven’t loved you for 10 years, but I was stuck and too lazy to do anything about it.
I never loved you.
I never should have married you.
We didn’t work.
We’re not compatible.
We drifted apart.
We’ve become different people.
We’re more like brother and sister.
We're more like roommates.
In my head I decided you don’t love me.
You changed.
You never change.
Now we can become the people we were meant to be.
I felt so alone.
I’m so unhappy.
It’s a crime to the universe to be this unhappy.
I’m not happy and you are the cause.
Nothing I did made you happy.
All I ever did was try to make you happy.
Nothing I did was good enough for you.
Why do you always have to be right about everything?
You emasculated me.
You didn’t make me feel wanted.
You pushed me away.
You abandoned me.
You don’t admire me.
You don't respect me.
You micromanaged me.
You were too controlling.
I’m nothing but a paycheck to you.
I didn’t abandon you guys, I still give you money.
You are the one in denial.
You need to move on.
We’re over and you’re not accepting it.
You’re too independent.
Our marriage was over 5/10/15/20 years ago.
I am never coming back.
Why can’t I have both of you?
The affair is not why I left.
The other woman has nothing to do with why I left.
The affair is irrelevant.
The affair doesn’t matter.
The other woman listens to me
The other woman admires me.
The other woman adores me.
The other woman is a fantasy.
The other woman is a distraction.
The other woman makes me feel safe.
The other woman makes me feel sane.
You should date other people.
You’ll find someone better than me.
I’m not good enough for you.
I hope you find someone to give you the happiness I couldn’t.
I’m sorry I wasted your time.
I’m sorry I wasted so much of your life.
I hope we can be friends.
I don’t want to make any promises or give you false hope.
I’m not leaving the kids, I’m leaving you.
I did not leave the children.
The kids will be fine with me leaving.
The kids are better off.
The kids are happier now that I’m happy.
I’m a better dad now.
I’m happier now than I’ve ever been.
I hope we can settle this amicably, without the need for lawyers.
Maybe we can get back together when all the debts are settled.
Posted by whatismidlifecrisis
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Wow... thanks for that ! My h said 50 percent of these things.
I never slept naked before and now I do for me lol... I seem to do a lot of things for me now just like you do :) I wish I had taken my friend's advice years ago in regard to doing things for me lol. Hindsight is always 20/20
One thing that I know for sure is ... I will never ever lose myself again. You either like me the way I am or not at all...
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Before BD and just after, my husband expressed many excuses in addition to his main reason. I have noticed already a lot of those reasons simply don't hold up. Case in point, my cooking was so terrible. Now he praises it and criticizes OW's. I just found out a few days ago that he has told OW his core reason for their relationship isn't even important to him.
They may really believe these reasons when they give them. But once they start to see the grass isn't greener on the other side, I think it all starts to fall apart like a house of cards
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Changing4Eva - I patiently wait for this day to arrive. The OW in our situation is a heavenly angel in ExH eyes. He refuses to listen to anyone who has anything negative (& truthfully) to say about her. Believe me she has a colourful reputation around town. He is totally infatuated and goes in a total rage to defend her...hmmmmmm.
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Where does the "you caught me in a lie" fall?
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Mine has said that :
He hasnt been happy in years.
He wants his freedom.
He is bored and sick of the routine.
Marriage shouldnt be this much work.
He is an immature or selfish a##hole.
He doesnt know if he wants to be faithful to me.
He thinks im miserable to be with.
All there is between us is sex.
If it wasnt for the kids we would have never stayed togetger.
Friends are family and you wont let me have friends.
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I just remembered a phrase my husband told the ow when they met
' I am in a partnership to raise four kids'.....Wow a partnership that is why he has abandoned his kids totally. Why doesn't anything make sense? Why was I not the first to know that our loving marriage was nothing but a partnership?
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MendingLoiness - that statement just shows you how messed up they are 😘
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Wow, my h also used about 50% of these to say we were done. It's like they all get a script to go by. I read midlife crisis for dummies and I swear my husband wrote it word for word. It'seems weird.
I have lost 40 lbs since January. He doesn't say anything but I see him noticing. Now, he is always trying to get me to eat.
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Hmm... I don't think that any of us are the first to know we have problems in our own marriage. I am starting to think it is because they want the ow to feel pitty for them. Big bad mean wifie lol
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Changing4Eva - I patiently wait for this day to arrive. The OW in our situation is a heavenly angel in ExH eyes. He refuses to listen to anyone who has anything negative (& truthfully) to say about her. Believe me she has a colourful reputation around town. He is totally infatuated and goes in a total rage to defend her...hmmmmmm.
It is amazing how they justify their behaviors and beliefs. The OW for us has a colorful reputation in the work place. We work for a state agency and she is known state wide for her antics w/men. Posted over 1800 pics, mostly selfies, because who would want to be with that piece of trash. it is a good thing for Instagram and other apps to make people look better, don't know what she would do without them.
My H defended her and said he was "only trying to help her". My reply was "help her what? Get out of her pants?" I finally had to ask if she asked for his help, she didn't, she is all about drama. I find it amazing that our Hs manage to find such ugly, troubled individuals and build them into things that they are obviously not. But I think that's what feeds the Hs egos.
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"We drifted apart" and "she is just a friend" were what I was subjected to. Our drifting apart was me trying to better myself and provide better for us by getting a Masters Degree and opening up career paths. It required a lot of work from me. I don't regret doing it. It gets me though that for him it was the drifting apart period which happened to be about the same time OW (Skank) came along.
"Just a friend" - I never bought it. Never. He works with a good amount of women. He would come home and tell me things him and these women talked about. And he mentioned names. Some I have met in passing. But the skank? Not a mention EXCEPT when she got into some trouble for some unprofessional behavior and was suspended. I think he only mentioned that because he was probably torn up that he had to go to work and not see her skank face.
Ohhh, and one of my favorites that I am sure he regrets telling me: "because she was so attractive". This excuse soon ended when I was able to see what she looks like thru FB and Instagram. Attractive? Beautiful? to the blind, perhaps. Or desperate.
The sad thing is if I brought this up (which I learned not to do) he would probably crawl back into the tunnel and revert back to the she was just a friend nonsense. You don't keep friendships from your spouse. You don't go to great lengths to buy that friend a gift and hide statements and receipts from your spouse. I am a firm believer in if someone isn't a friend of the marriage, they are not a friend to either spouse. AND if someone isn't a fan of their own marriage, they probably aren't a fan of yours either.
Sorry, had to vent :)
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You know what? I used to dwell and feel like $h!te over h posting ow's picture and saying "the most beautifulest woman in the world". Then I got to thinking... Is she confident enough in her natural looks to take selfies WITHOUT make up? If she was REALLY beautiful, she would have told me "I'm so sorry. I will back off and tell him he needs to deal with his issues." BUT she didn't. She still wants him.
What makes these op think that our mlcers won't end up doing the same to them? They really don't stop and think. But it's NOT my problem. And h's ow won't be coming and crying to me when he does the same to her because I got smart and blocked her. :P
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Amazing similar stuff. I got told by h that ow was just coming out of a divorce and that he was trying to build up her self esteem. One thing led to another and he started talking about our marriage as if she was a friend instead of talking to me. He was not bothering to help build my self esteem. Weird. I did email the cow after I caught him lying and she proceeded to tell me that he loves me and only me and that she was not a homewrecking sl@t. She said she was going to back off so that we could work on our own crap. Thing is I didn't know we had any crap. She lied anyway because he told me a few weeks later that they had went out on dates and that he really liked her. I am not sure if she is still in the pic bc he works all the time so I am not sure when he would have the time. Who cares anyway at this point. Jerks
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Exactly how I feel, Tyks. My feelings toward h right now are back to how they were before this last t&g... Numb... Without him around, I actually feel a sense of peace... And S 5 1/2 and D 6 1/2 been handling his absence pretty well... Although they may be a bit upset today as they are spending time with him right now... I can prepare myself for a vanishing act but how do you prepare children that young?
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My h's ow used to babysit him when he was a kid. They lived right next store to each other. She kept in contact with his sister's and when he got fb she sent him a fb friend rewuest. He accepted because at the time he was fishing for an affair. She was living in tenessee with her 2nd husband, who was dying of cancer, and they began talking about their unhappy marriages. Her husband died in sept.2015 . She had already begun the process of reeling my husband in and she got him and still does. Caught her flirting with him in oct.2015 one month after her husband died. Sje has also said that she thought my h could help her son who has aspergers. She started out as just a friend too. She encourages him to flirt and get other womens phone numbers. He told that she also allowed her best friend to join them in the bedroom and she did. He said it wasnt what he wanted because hus ow would only let her friend perform orall on him. My d is supposed to go to their house in a couple of months with all this going on. Nice.
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Amazing similar stuff. I got told by h that ow was just coming out of a divorce and that he was trying to build up her self esteem. One thing led to another and he started talking about our marriage as if she was a friend instead of talking to me. He was not bothering to help build my self esteem.
Sounds so familiar. I also told him that if he felt the need to help someone, he should have been helping me. I also said we have children so if he had such a need to help people, he should have looked within his own family.
On another note, there was something I said once, out of anger. I think it might be funny now, not sure. Anyway, the skank is 22 years his junior and 12 years older than our son. I made a remark one day about maybe he should have tried hooking them up since they are MUCH closer in age! The look on his face was priceless.
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It's been a while since I posted this letter. I received it 10 days post BD after I sent him a letter basically telling him off for disrespecting me. His promises of us getting together to talk never happened. Also, the roommate comment is hilarious, I approached him time and time again to be intimate and HE pushed ME away. ::)
Let me first start out by saying I am sorry. I know those words mean nothing to you right now and maybe never will, but I am sincere. After reading your letter I was deeply hurt and angry with myself. I'm not saying I disagree with how you viewed my actions over the years but I honestly didn't realize that I was being like that. I know it's not an excuse and I'm not making it one. I have a lot going for me upstairs but there must be something else terribly wrong. I am in pain right now. You and the kids are all I've ever known. I put my entire life into trying to be a good husband and parent and thought I did pretty well. We both did. I don't know what happened, what went wrong. Something inside me changed. I'm not, nor have I ever blamed you. Maybe I grew apart. Maybe it wasn't us. It was me. It's easier for me to say we grew apart but in reality, I think you stayed the same and I changed. I don't know why. There is something I want to get straight. Please don't ever say or think that I never loved you. I know you're deeply hurt by what I've done and that is probably just a jab to try and induce pain in me but it's simply not true. In your heart I think you know that. We had a lot of good years together and some great memories. In time I'm sure you'll look back and think the same even though right now you think it was all fake. There's a part of me that still loves you very much and always will. Again, that's not just me saying $hit to try and manipulate you and make you feel like I'm a good guy. It's the truth. The strange thing is that we becoming roommate's terrified me to the point that I couldn't just hang out with you. Now that's what I miss the most. I don't know where it all went wrong for me. I'm very f*cked up in the head. I'm sorry I changed to this guy. I'm babbling right now because I don't know how to express what I'm feeling. I'm distraught that I've hurt you and our kids so badly. As f*cked up as it sounds, I'm worried about you. I don't hate you. I want you to know that. I think you're one of the most sincere, intelligent people I know. Whether you realize it or not I've always been very boastful of you accomplishments. Maybe even a little jealous. You said you always wanted to have a relationship with me in the future. Is that possible? I hope it is. I hope you find true happiness with someone who treats you as an equal, something you never felt you had with me. Again, I apologize for that. No excuses but I learned on the fly. I had nothing to go by and neither did you. We were kids and we both grew up in dysfunctional homes and maybe that has something to do with it. I don't know. I've been soul searching for the past week and just keep coming up with excuses to try and justify my behavior. I know you really don't think I'm a bad person. I'm a good person and I did something bad. I hope that someday you'll find it in your heart to forgive me. I hope the kids do too. I know that you are not the kind of person to persuade them to hate me. I hope that through all of this, you reassure "son" that he means the world to me. He is my clone. I hope for his sake that he is part your clone too. I don't want him to think that I don't love him or love him any less. I'm shaking and crying as I write this because I'm scared. Please tell him that for me. I know he needs time. I'm very happy that he is so protective of you but I need him. "Daughter" seems OK but that will take time to mend also. She is a different breed. I'm not sure I've got her figured out. I have a different connection with "Son" and he knows it. When "Son" gets a new phone let me know so I can try to reach him OK? You and I still have a lot to talk about but I wanted to respond to your letter first. I hope to hear from you soon and I will never, ever forget or downplay what we did. There will always be a piece of you in me. That's the truth.
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Nah, I see your husband is a Vanisher. To his kids as Well? He speaks so caring and sounds sincere in his letter about you all. What happens to them to walk out on their life? Their kids?
I truly believe that the real person is still in that head somewhere. They know what they are doing and have done. The hurt that they have caused, but they think if they run everything will be ok. As we all know that it is not. You can't run from your problems forever.
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Nah - thanks for posting the letter.
Is your son really a "clone" of your ex?? I sure hope not.
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My son physically looks like my ex but is not at all like him. He talks to his dad but is much closer to me.
As strange as this sounds my daughter is now close to her father and hasn't talked to me in about 2 years. She has been manipulated by him and his family. If anyone else on here has this issue with their adult children, we talk about it on my3girls thread.
I'm not sure how often he sees or talks to either of them but I don't think it's often.
I call my husband a vanisher but I can contact him and he will answer. Just yesterday he "accidentally" transferred $2000.00 out of my account to his account. I contacted him in a very blunt and business-like tone so he immediately apologized, corrected the "mistake" and made excuses with multiple apologies again. I didn't respond.
He use to make close to 1/2 a million a year, he is now in debt with less than $100 in his account.
Let them go and protect yourselves or they will bring you down with them.
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He use to make close to 1/2 a million a year, he is now in debt with less than $100 in his account.
Let them go and protect yourselves or they will bring you down with them.
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Agree with you 100% Nah. P hasn`t actually said it out loud but sometimes he gives me the impression that he`s not as financially secure as he was before he lived the high life during his excessive Replay, which went on for a few years and during which he must have spent a fortune. Since he came back in November he`s been practically counting every Cent and has become extremely stingy.
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Nah... that lettter sounds like something my h wrote as well. It is so weird. It is like they have a script they all get hold of. Also... my h is a vanisher but if I contact him about the kids or whatever he replies in kind immediately. Once he replies I also do not reply if it is not necessary.
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My husband is so atypical in some ways for an MLCer. He said nothing but nice things about me to OW to the extent that she feels she will never be as precious to him as I am. Up front he said to her, "C4E has never wronged me and I will never leave her."
And as he started replay he practically begged me to give him a reason why we should stay together. So I thought of something unique about our relationship that OW could never replicate and he agreed that it was good enough reason. So here we are still.
Inside out lizard brain I guess.
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I have no idea what the Leaver has said to the girl about me. I have seen her twice and both times she turned her back and put her head down. She's scared to death of me. She has never really mattered to me.
As for what the Leaver says to others?, it's always the same, "Nah and I weren't on the same page but now we are best friends." :o
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Interesting thread ! My husband also said apart from the ones mentioned...
he thought of his future and wasn't sure if he wanted me in the picture,
That he didn't feel like sharing his life with me at the moment. Maybe in two,five or twenty years time, things would be different.
And that he had a lot of love to give ... to whom??? Apparently, not to me
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Best friends? I really would like ro know their definition of friendship. If this is how these guys treat their friends i want no part of it. Not that i would have to worry. My h has told me over and over again how we were never friends.
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My h just told me he hasn't been over to see the kids because he can't stand being around me anymore. Why? Cause I called him out on his lies?
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They will say anything to place blame on someone eles and justify their behavior wont they?
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Totally agree! If only they could listen to themselves and hear their pathetic and lame excuses they would understand....guess that is impossible in the MLC fog.
Definitely agree that it is all about self justification for the Mlcer's brain. If they say it, it must be true. It is very sad when they start to believe their own lies and fabrications.
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We should record all our conversations with them and make them listen to it at a later date. I think im going to do thatvthe next time h wants to talk. That will probably never happen again. But if i get the opportunity...
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I have been saving texts from h since last Sunday. Would it even register if he saw them after coming through this?
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What I heard: (man = woman)
I need space.
I need to be on my own.
I’m becoming the man I always should have been.
I need to find happiness.
I haven’t been happy for years.
I was suffocating.
I love you but I’m not in love with you.
I never should have married you.
We’re not compatible.
We’re more like brother and sister.
We're more like roommates.
I’m so unhappy.
I’m not happy and you are the cause.
All I ever did was try to make you happy.
Why do you always have to be right about everything?
You don't respect me.
You need to move on.
We’re over and you’re not accepting it.
Our marriage was over 5/10/15/20 years ago.
I hope we can be friends.
I don’t want to make any promises or give you false hope.
I hope we can settle this amicably, without the need for lawyers.
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It is just plain craziness 😡
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Extract from Vicki Stark's book - Runaway Husbands
This is my script....anyone else?
The reason that Wife Abandonment Syndrome is so traumatic is that the change in the husband's behavior is dramatic, sudden and unexplained.
In order to justify his decision not to include his wife in the process that led to the end of the marriage, he needs to come up with a compelling explanation for his actions. That explanation often has little to do with reality, causing the bewildered wife, who had previously trusted her husband's word, to wrack her brains trying to make sense out of something that is inherently nonsensical.
The type of man who abandons often appears to be unusually moral and trustworthy, making it even harder for the wife to accept that his words are empty justifications. The most important first step in healing for a woman in this situation is the realization that her husband is not the man she thought she knew and that he never was.
Ten Hallmarks of Wife Abandonment Syndrome
1. Prior to the separation, the husband had seemed to be an attentive, engaged spouse, looked upon by his wife as honest and trustworthy.
2. The husband had never indicated that he was unhappy in the marriage or thinking of leaving, and the wife believed herself to be in a secure relationship.
3. By the time he reveals his feelings to his wife, the end of the marriage is already a fait accompli and the husband moves out quickly.
4. The husband typically blurts out the news that the marriage is over "out-of-the-blue" in the middle of a mundane domestic conversation.
5. Reasons given for his decision are nonsensical, exaggerated, trivial or fraudulent.
6. The husband’s behavior changes radically, feeling to his wife that he has become a cruel and vindictive stranger.
7. The husband exhibits no remorse; rather, anger is directed toward his wife and he may describe himself as the victim.
8. In most cases, the husband is having an affair and moves in directly with his girlfriend.
9. The husband makes no attempt to help his wife, either financially or emotionally, as if all positive regard for her has been extinguished.
10. Systematically devaluing the marriage, the husband redefines what had previously been an agreed-upon view of the couple's joint history.
Warning Signs for Married Women of Possible W.A.S. (even if your husband has not talked about being unhappy in the marriage)
1. Has he had affairs in the past or left previous relationships in a similar way, even if you were the one for whom he left his last wife. That's the strongest predictor that he has what it takes to do that again.
2. Does he seem uncharacteristically unhappy with his life, even if his complaints are not related to the marriage. It's a sign that he may be re-thinking his life.
3. Do you notice a personality change? Does he just not seem himself? Is he withdrawn or suddenly irritable? Is he snapping at the children or not wanting to participate in family activities?
4. Are his habits changing - suddenly going to the gym, buying flashier clothes, dying his hair, getting a tattoo, buying an expensive car?
5. Do his values seem to be in flux? Is he adopting ideas that he used to belittle or belittling things he used to value? Is he espousing new beliefs that surprise you?
6. Is he taking "business" trips or disappearing for periods of time and the reasons given just don't seem to make sense?
7. Has he started to frequently mention a woman at work?
8. Does he work in a career in which he is in a position of power or authority, such as a professor, pastor, business executive or chaplain, where younger women may look up to him?
Gaslighting
In an effort to validate leaving, departing husbands devise nonsensical excuses and re-write the past, reversing statements that they had previously made. This greatly confuses their wives, often causing them to feel like they are losing their minds. This form of manipulation is called Gaslighting in reference to a 1944 Ingrid Bergman film, Gaslight, in which in which the devious husband of the delicate heroine flickers the gaslights every evening as part of a plan of psychological torture designed to delude her into believing that she has gone mad.
Women who are subjected to Wife Abandonment Syndrome are often presented with statements that are contrary to those their husbands made prior to leaving. For example, the man who used to say that his wife was "the rock of his life" now says, "I never really loved you". Women are forced to question their own memories and are at a loss to know what to believe – it's almost impossible to accept that their husbands are just out-and-out lying to strengthen their positions.
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Yes, ma'am. Almost to the word :(
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Has anyone heard of Abandoned Wife Sydrome before.....symptoms etc sound very similar to Mid Life Crisis......are they different?
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I read her book soon after bomb drop. Like many resources on this phenomenon it is descriptive, with few answers. Her focus is on the healing process/pattern.
She is describing here what we are calling MLC. It is also the pattern experienced by people after the discard phase of a narcissistic relationship. Moreover, it can also be the behavior exhibited by someone in a manic state.
By the way, she describes my own situation in great detail, particularly because my bomb drop, like hers, came after I had been away.
What she doesn't offer is follow up and this is where I think the stories differ and become more revealing. Many of us have observed far more unusual behavior beyond just someone coldly abandoning us. This extends to spending habits, choice of friends, perception of time, treatment of children, work habits, physical changes, and more.
In that regard, I think there is a lot more work to be done and many more questions to answer.
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I also read the book shortly after BD. V is right. The focus is on the healing process.
Most of the Hallmarks she lists fit my exH as well.
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What she doesn't offer is follow up and this is where I think the stories differ and become more revealing. Many of us have observed far more unusual behavior beyond just someone coldly abandoning us. This extends to spending habits, choice of friends, perception of time, treatment of children, work habits, physical changes, and more.
In that regard, I think there is a lot more work to be done and many more questions to answer.
I agree. She makes good observations but stops there. I think we all need a bit more understanding and that is what we get on HS. Key in this quote is
The most important first step in healing for a woman in this situation is the realization that her husband is not the man she thought she knew and that he never was.
Delete he never was.
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What she doesn't offer is follow up and this is where I think the stories differ and become more revealing. Many of us have observed far more unusual behavior beyond just someone coldly abandoning us. This extends to spending habits, choice of friends, perception of time, treatment of children, work habits, physical changes, and more.
In that regard, I think there is a lot more work to be done and many more questions to answer.
I agree. She makes good observations but stops there. I think we all need a bit more understanding and that is what we get on HS. Key in this quote is
The most important first step in healing for a woman in this situation is the realization that her husband is not the man she thought she knew and that he never was.
Delete he never was.
Thankyou calamity 😘. I was beginning to doubt everything I have believed in MLC for so long.
I know my husband, Probably better than he knew himself. Everyone did. His family and kids. This person in his body at the moment, controlling his actions now is NOT the man we know so well and love so much.
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And the latest from my "stbx"
He hasn't been happy for the last 7 yrs
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And the latest from my "stbx"
He hasn't been happy for the last 7 yrs
And this is the first you knew about it? 7 years hey? Living together for that long and you had no idea.....really? They are really sad souls.
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Key in this quote is
The most important first step in healing for a woman in this situation is the realization that her husband is not the man she thought she knew and that he never was.
Delete he never was.
In my experience the original quote is accurate as stated when including the "and that he never was."
My view based on experience:
We all like to think we "knew" our husbands thoroughly. In a sense that is true in that we knew the person he was when he was with us, the person he showed us he was, the person he allowed us to see.. But that is not and was not the sum total of him. He had secrets big and small. (That in itself is normal, to have some secrets. But his secrets were so much more.). We also had and have secrets.
But if we "knew" them oh so thoroughly, why couldn't we see this coming? This MLC disaster? Why do most of the posters express such shock that this happened?
Its our husbands that are doing the nasty things. Its not some alien body snatcher or imposter in their bodies. Its them.
What we never "knew" is the dark side of them that always existed in them but was for the most part kept under wraps for various reasons. Facing that, is part of allowing them to own their actions and giving them space to deal with their demons in order to potentially put those demons to rest and find healing. Failing to accept that is pressure on them to stay the same as they were and simply stuff those demons back under the rug only to trip over them later when they again emerge. It adds exponentially to the guilt which adds debris that gets in the way of them coming home. That's a recipe for staying on the MLC rollercoaster indefinitely. Failing to understand that also allows no room for the true sense of reconnecting and reconciling to happen. Many MLC authors write that its a new relationship. It cannot be a new relationship if expectations exist as to "knowing" them oh so well. It is then that we find out just how much we didn't know them as new (to us) qualities emerge.
No one should ever be able to say another knows us better than we know ourselves or that we know someone better than they know themselves. If true, that would mean either we aren't mature and aware adults and so are neglecting our own growth and selfcare or that we are stagnant, an equally unhealthy state. And in the converse it is a subtle control and arrogance issue to believe anyone could know someone better than they know themselves. What we know is what we are shown. People change. People evolve. Who a MLCer is today is a reflection of seeds that were always in them, dormant and unseen by us but there nevertheless. Nothing grows without first there being a seed.
Part of what keeps love alive and fresh is the continual growth of both parties, the surprises big and small.
Lp
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And the latest from my "stbx"
He hasn't been happy for the last 7 yrs
Next week it will be 10 years, the a time frame longer than you were together, then he was never happy. When they are in this state what is current is what always was.
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And he also "acted happy for the kids". Really?!
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LP-I get what you are saying but I think armed with info about MLC and its typical manifestations we may actually know better the possible reasons for it before our spouses do and can see where they are going with it. For instance, my husband told me about his father's abuse. I have known about it since early in our marriage when my husband explained some of his strange behavior with me in light of the abuse, but then he never brought it up again. I can see how it is playing out especially in his relationship with OW, but in a very different way from how it was with me. But she has NO CLUE about this. And I doubt he is aware too, at least not yet.
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Yes, Changing, I agree that once we learn about MLC etc., we may be aware of some broad brush things and possible things that led to or were seeds for the crisis. But suspecting or being aware of those things is not knowing his secrets in the way he knows and remembers them. And what they discuss, especially before the crisis, is only the tip of the iceberg. Its only what they can process at that given time, not the real root which has to do with squaring the emotions of a child with knowledge of a man and true acceptance of feelings and specific memories. It also has much to do with other aspects and people aside from the direct abuser. For example, the feelings towards why the other parent didn't protect them from the abuse. Yes as an adult we may say or even rationalize well she was powerless to do so or its not culturally acceptable for her to have done so. But that doesn't answer the pain in the child's heart for the abandonment.
So knowing his secrets or perhaps more truthfully parts of his secrets is still not knowing all of him.
That the OW has no clue is not important. Her place in the drama is not relevant to him replaying these memories and patterns. She is nothing more than a tool to make his need to replay possible. In ways she is playing the role of his mother in the pattern. She has the correct skills to do that on a base level. She's a stand in. It would not be suprising if his mother is a truer source for him as the physical wounds of abuse are not the worst part of abuse so its not necessarily the perpetrator of those that is the origin of the real pain.
Lp
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For example, the feelings towards why the other parent didn't protect them from the abuse. Yes as an adult we may say or even rationalize well she was powerless to do so or its not culturally acceptable for her to have done so. But that doesn't answer the pain in the child's heart for the abandonment.
LP,
I value your input on the subject and also mixed with your experience from your line of work.
What you stated in the above is something I think a lot about to day in my healing process, when I work through my FOO. The "only" answer I can come up with is (about why my mother didn't stop the abuse from my father against us children) she was abused by him as well. I don't or can't remember that I witness any physical abuse towards my mum only a lot of emotional/verbal.
The common saying in my country (might be the same around the globe) from police/womens shelter IC/layers in DV is that;
1. The abuser inherited the violence behavior from their father.
2. They will never get cured from this, only worse.
3. There is a huge possibility that their own children will inherited the same abusive behavior. (My IC at the shelter for DV, said that only IF the children has a emotional healthy/a mother who is present for the children the pattern will not be repeated)
My now XH never expressed that he was abused as a child, even if both me and my SIL both saw that H+ his brothers was in a way terrified about their father. SIL witnessed much more violent behavior from him than I did but I know he acted in various violent ways towards different people, when he was stressed out (I'm not in any way justifying his behavior bc he was stressed out nor am I justifying any ones behavior due to stress)
IF I'm trying to put 2 and 2 together, could the OW (for the male mlc'r ) play the part of the abused mother that he is trying to save as in he couldn't save her when he was younger against his father and also play the part of "getting the love from the mother they didn't get"?
I know we are trying to put logic thinking into a irrational behavior which is impossible but since your above statement resonate with my own thoughts now a days about why didn't my mother shield us from the abuse herself, why did she let him continue his abusive behavior?
Hugs
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IF I'm trying to put 2 and 2 together, could the OW (for the male mlc'r ) play the part of the abused mother that he is trying to save as in he couldn't save her when he was younger against his father and also play the part of "getting the love from the mother they didn't get"?
The more I got out of my H about the OW, the more of a pattern I see between her and his mother. They are both narcissistic and all about them. Throw in a little Borderline Personality for them both playing victim in any scenario. I honestly believe my husband has approval and acceptance issues from his evil, wicked mother who was verbally abusive all his life (and continues to be). I think OW in some aspect reminded him of her and he was seeking the approval and acceptance. Lucky for me, OW showed her true colors which I firmly believe was H's wake up call. I also see some type of connections in other people's postings about their own situations. I think there are unresolved other issues which relate in some way to the OW.
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What we never "knew" is the dark side of them that always existed in them but was for the most part kept under wraps for various reasons. Facing that, is part of allowing them to own their actions and giving them space to deal with their demons in order to potentially put those demons to rest and find healing. Failing to accept that is pressure on them to stay the same as they were and simply stuff those demons back under the rug only to trip over them later when they again emerge. It adds exponentially to the guilt which adds debris that gets in the way of them coming home. That's a recipe for staying on the MLC rollercoaster indefinitely. Failing to understand that also allows no room for the true sense of reconnecting and reconciling to happen. Many MLC authors write that its a new relationship. It cannot be a new relationship if expectations exist as to "knowing" them oh so well. It is then that we find out just how much we didn't know them as new (to us) qualities emerge.
I think this is very insightful. I think in many ways what we see is unchecked emotional self. Without going into theories for why it becomes unchecked, I believe too that it is accurate to say that this emotional self (inner child/shadow persona) was always there. I think yes this is also important way to look at it, that we cannot ask them to return to the person they appeared to be because it was not an integrated/healed person.
I had a very interesting chat with a fellow LBS recently. We discussed how once the MLCer projects his anger into the LBS, he is in many ways free to love his parents again. Many of us notice a spouse who was resentful or indifferent to his parents suddenly show a lot of devotion to them after bomb drop.
I am very curious what causes this turning point when the OW/OM becomes the "parent," if this is true.
Passiflora, my MLC-H's mom also did not protect her children from their abusive stepfather. She stayed with him for many years. The father also did nothing.
I find it curious then that my MLCer is acting like all three of these adults, repeating all their exact mistakes, while simultaneously attempting to project this onto me, who was raised in a more loving intact home and has always been a very loving, devoted mother. My therapist hypothesized early on that perhaps his inner child was jealous. It struck me as an odd remark yet I am reminded of it from time to time.
Great discussion!
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IF I'm trying to put 2 and 2 together, could the OW (for the male mlc'r ) play the part of the abused mother that he is trying to save as in he couldn't save her when he was younger against his father and also play the part of "getting the love from the mother they didn't get"?
In my H's case, the OW plays the part of the abused mother, but he's not trying to save her, he's trying to get her to accept the abuse unquestioningly. I'm the one who he is trying to protect.
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That the OW has no clue is not important. Her place in the drama is not relevant to him replaying these memories and patterns. She is nothing more than a tool to make his need to replay possible. In ways she is playing the role of his mother in the pattern. She has the correct skills to do that on a base level.
Actually, I think it does matter in my husband's case. She believed he is really tough and that no one could ever lay a hand on him. While on one level I think he is playing his father in all this, at another level I think he is playing himself and projecting an image of himself as someone who escaped the abuse altogether because he was strong.
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Yes I totally agree that the OW (or Slore as we call her - cross between Sl^t and wh*r^...thanks Kardashians 😂) is told many untruths about our marriages and relationships. She then becomes the mother figure to protect our messed up MLCer. My husbands mother was not nurturing and quite often turned a blind eye to my husband's emotional and sometimes physical abuse and ignored it totally. Maybe this is why our Mlcer's tell a untrue sob story to the unexpecting ow in order to seek sympathy...a mothers sympathy.
My husband also plays the Daddy role to the Slore.....her father passed away when she was young, she has Daddy issues. Has a reputation for breaking up happy families. Could be a jealously thing on her behalf, seeing a family unit happy? But it also highlights her need to have a close relationship with a man some 15 years older. BUT I COULD NOT CARE LESS ABOUT HER ISSUES....I only focus on the man I care about. She will move on sooner or later 😆
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Ow in my case also has daddy issues ...apparently her father is somekind of a playboy who cheated on her mother various times and is a father to many other kids .....h is her substitute father being twice her age ......I could not even believe it when i heard her asking h (on the phone while he was here in Malta visiting the kids sept2015) "what am I going to eat ?" and "ohhh I can t go out without you " and many more child like questions !!!! I m amazed that their conversations revolve mainly on food !!!!!
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I also think that my H has mother issues but in my case I think that it is actually his mother that is ‘helping’ him deal with them now but as he has cut me off from his family I don’t really know what is going on. H does not have many memories about his childhood, that there wasn't any physical abuse and on the surface they seem like a normal family, however….. MIL was left to raise 3 sons almost single handed, FIL worked away from Monday morning until Friday evening. MIL is not at all loving or nurturing, H admits to not having a loving childhood he describes it as practical, he and his brothers (H is the middle son) were not allowed to show emotion and when once asked by a counsellor what their family moto would have been H replied ‘You must conform’. MIL has always used withdrawal of affection as a punishment, even on her adult sons. She also seems unable to show affection to more than one child (or grandchild) at a time so the brothers had to complete and the ‘best’ boy got it. Since moving out last August he has been developing his relationship with his mother, up until then their relationship had only ever been ‘duty’ on Hs part, now he is describing her as being ‘A wonderful strong and supportive women’. :o She is now a frail 81 year old and spent 3 weeks quite ill in hospital at the beginning of this year; and whilst I wouldn’t want to wish her gone I am not sure how H will cope if she where to pass away in the near future, will he come out of this MLC or go further into depression. Will this time getting to know her as an adult help?
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Interesting read Enyo. My husband's father was exactly as you describe your MIL. Definitely not fatherly or nurturing. Cold, Cruel and Harsh would be my exact words. My FIL had the favourite child, the one that could do no wrong, almost the preferred child. It was very sad to watch whilst at the few family gatherings. He did the same thing with his grandkids. All of my four kids don't won't anything to do with him due to his cruel ways. A decision they all have made alone. The stories that they have told me since BD have shocked me.
After researching I blame FIL wholeheartedly for my husbands MLC. He was never good enough, irrespective what he did in life. His father would always mock him in public, he did not careless who heard him. When he was 40 he had to give up work due to depression. It appears to be a domino effect now with my husband. He has turned his kids away from him. Something that the old version husband would never do.
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That the OW has no clue is not important. Her place in the drama is not relevant to him replaying these memories and patterns. She is nothing more than a tool to make his need to replay possible. In ways she is playing the role of his mother in the pattern. She has the correct skills to do that on a base level.
Actually, I think it does matter in my husband's case. She believed he is really tough and that no one could ever lay a hand on him. While on one level I think he is playing his father in all this, at another level I think he is playing himself and projecting an image of himself as someone who escaped the abuse altogether because he was strong.
Changing, important as in significant or differentiating. Almost 100% of the people here with affairs involved can attest to the fact that it is not unusual or even uncommon that the OP is told lies about who he is, his personality, his history, his financials, his position, his image. A large percentage of the men paint themselves as invincible heroes/leaders/knights in shining armour/brave soldiers/leaders of important families/great warriors/captain's of industry/etc etc to the OW. The other portion fall somewhere in the group of poor victims of circumstance/abused by the wife/abused by an unfair world etc etc.
That the OW does not know of his previous abuse is part of her roll in this drama. It is so common that it is part of the script described within the relationship. It is so common that it is listed in articles, for example,
#10: MOST MEN IN MIDLIFE CRISIS HAVE AFFAIRS
The other woman knows little or nothing of his history or flaws. The mid-lifer feeds the other woman rewritten history about his spouse. She starts the relationship by idealizing the mid-lifer. The mid-lifer can portray himself as heroic, perfect and accomplished. Both individuals are living a fantasy.
He cannot play out this roll as easily with someone who knows his history since he is rewriting history and trying on another persona.
If she didn't fit the roll, she would not have been cast in it and someone else would have. And that qualification was not deciding but convenient for him as he doesn't even have to be all that careful or specific or detailed in his rewriting of history because she didn't have a clue. That's the qualification she brought to the table and how perfectly expendable she is. That's a part of keeping the fantasy alive for them.
But in the long run, it is just very unimportant as it is not a lasting quality.
Easier and common just do not add up to important, differentiating or significant.
Lp
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For example, the feelings towards why the other parent didn't protect them from the abuse. Yes as an adult we may say or even rationalize well she was powerless to do so or its not culturally acceptable for her to have done so. But that doesn't answer the pain in the child's heart for the abandonment.
LP,
I value your input on the subject and also mixed with your experience from your line of work.
What you stated in the above is something I think a lot about to day in my healing process, when I work through my FOO. The "only" answer I can come up with is (about why my mother didn't stop the abuse from my father against us children) she was abused by him as well. I don't or can't remember that I witness any physical abuse towards my mum only a lot of emotional/verbal.
The common saying in my country (might be the same around the globe) from police/womens shelter IC/layers in DV is that;
1. The abuser inherited the violence behavior from their father.
2. They will never get cured from this, only worse.
3. There is a huge possibility that their own children will inherited the same abusive behavior. (My IC at the shelter for DV, said that only IF the children has a emotional healthy/a mother who is present for the children the pattern will not be repeated)
My now XH never expressed that he was abused as a child, even if both me and my SIL both saw that H+ his brothers was in a way terrified about their father. SIL witnessed much more violent behavior from him than I did but I know he acted in various violent ways towards different people, when he was stressed out (I'm not in any way justifying his behavior bc he was stressed out nor am I justifying any ones behavior due to stress)
IF I'm trying to put 2 and 2 together, could the OW (for the male mlc'r ) play the part of the abused mother that he is trying to save as in he couldn't save her when he was younger against his father and also play the part of "getting the love from the mother they didn't get"?
I know we are trying to put logic thinking into a irrational behavior which is impossible but since your above statement resonate with my own thoughts now a days about why didn't my mother shield us from the abuse herself, why did she let him continue his abusive behavior?
Hugs
Well Hello Passiflora!
I hope things are coming together well for you. It has been some time since I have seen you posting. Thank you for your kind words by the way.
Abuse is often not "remembered" naturally because it is too painful to recall for the mind to go there. My mother has little to no recollection of life at home with her father or her childhood for example. And her father was a very violent man.
Yes, mothers that don't stop the abuse are often abused. That is the adult answer. However, when addressing it with these men, it is getting to how the child felt that is the root. With J he was so torn. He told me in the end that he could not be angry at his mother. "She was all we had. She was our only source of love." That's what he told me. So it was not safe for him as a child to be angry with her. If he had been, he would have been turning his back on his only source of love.
Yet in the end when I asked him during the real Depression phase, how the little boy that he was felt, he said he didn't know. Then I asked him where his mother was while he was being beaten by his stepfathers. He went blank as looked at the floor and mumbled that he didn't know, that he guessed she was out in the kitchen listening. I asked him what that little boy would have wanted to say to his mother when it was happening. He screamed, "Mommy why are you letting this happen!?!! I hate you and I love you. Why don't you love us? Why don't you help us?"
And after that we worked out how torn in two he felt. Including the anger he felt towards his mother. And I talked to her about it afterwards. She had her reasons for what she did and the mistakes she made as well.
As to the part the OW plays, yes, quite so. The H has to work out the two sides: Love for his mother and the child's feelings of betrayal that the mother did not protect him as well as his feelings of inadequacy as to being able to protect her.
Then add in a third source of tension which is the idea of manhood. In a male child's life, the man in the house defines the roll of manhood, what it means to be a man. So the example is set for the boy as to being violent and aggressive, but this only causes more confusion as the boy is torn between love for his mother and wanting to protect her, wanting her to show him love by protecting him, and wanting to be a "man".
I see so many men that are torn between those areas, unable to find a balance, unable to confront the mother about being angry with their mother for not protecting them because that means they risk their source of love, while the logical part of their brain understands she was powerless. And that is another problem. Can someone who is powerless be respected as the root of love is respect? Hence the disrespect for women takes root as a proxy for the weakness of the mother and the subsequent anger. And if someone is not respected, then the issue becomes, how can one love a mother who is weak, who is disrespected, who has not protected her child Etc? But who can face that if the only source of constant love and stability is the mother?
That's another source for the root of conflict avoidance and fear of being alone/abandonment which equates to being unloved. They often are very angry, and take out their anger on those around them, which includes things like barroom fights for some. J hurt many many people over the years, some quite seriously. And he was arrested and convict of Domestic Violence on his OW. And like his mother, the OW bailed him out of jail and took him home using her child support money to do that. And so the circle was complete, a mirror of his childhood situation, except that he did not beat her children. He beat her instead.
Since he has healed and worked out that root of tension, he has not shown any indication of violence towards anyone.
The cycle can stop. It has stopped for J. It has stopped for me.
Lp
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Hmm... I don't think that any of us are the first to know we have problems in our own marriage. I am starting to think it is because they want the ow to feel pitty for them. Big bad mean wifie lol
Oh Tyks that did make me laugh - yup big bad mean widow for making them be married and trapped..... ;D
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I have come across this article on "What is Midlife Crisis". Very interesting and soooo MLC Script, thought I would share with all the beautiful souls whose lives have been touched by the medically non-existent/non-recognized MLC epidemic......apparently we too are living a dream/nightmare (definitely no fantasy 👺)!
My MLCer told me that he needed space and that I deserved better....yes I certainly did and do 😂. Guess you have to see the funny side of their lunatic behaviors 😬. He also told me that he left me because I wore flannelette pyjamas pants to bed....excuse me they are comfortable and I stopped wearing the sexy lingerie after kids, for obvious reasons. For many years it did not bother him. They came off easier and quicker for intimacy then lingerie 💋For the record I now wear sexy lingerie....for me....he is missing out....after participating involuntarily in the MLCer LBS Diet (😜) my body is in good shape....he is missing out big time lol. I am beginning to think that I might be good enough 👡👗👠👡💃👸 after having my self confidence destroyed and shattered. Such a dark period for a once very confident woman to endure 😢.
Looking back we see the pathetic excuses for what they are. Yes they appear to be script for so many of us. ❤
MLC Script: Reasons for leaving and justifications for behavior many MLCers give
I need space.
I need to be on my own.
I need to go away and find myself.
I need to be alone.
I want a new life.
I’m becoming the man I always should have been.
I need to find happiness.
It’s time for me to be happy.
I haven’t been happy for years.
I want to be selfish for once in my life.
It’s my turn to be selfish now.
I’m tired of spending my life doing what everyone else wants.
I feel like I’m dying.
I was suffocating.
You suck the life out of me.
If I didn’t leave, I’d die.
I had to leave.
I tried.
The marriage is killing me.
I don’t give a damn what anyone else thinks.
I love you but I’m not in love with you.
I don’t love you the way I should.
I haven’t loved you for 10 years, but I was stuck and too lazy to do anything about it.
I never loved you.
I never should have married you.
We didn’t work.
We’re not compatible.
We drifted apart.
We’ve become different people.
We’re more like brother and sister.
We're more like roommates.
In my head I decided you don’t love me.
You changed.
You never change.
Now we can become the people we were meant to be.
I felt so alone.
I’m so unhappy.
It’s a crime to the universe to be this unhappy.
I’m not happy and you are the cause.
Nothing I did made you happy.
All I ever did was try to make you happy.
Nothing I did was good enough for you.
Why do you always have to be right about everything?
You emasculated me.
You didn’t make me feel wanted.
You pushed me away.
You abandoned me.
You don’t admire me.
You don't respect me.
You micromanaged me.
You were too controlling.
I’m nothing but a paycheck to you.
I didn’t abandon you guys, I still give you money.
You are the one in denial.
You need to move on.
We’re over and you’re not accepting it.
You’re too independent.
Our marriage was over 5/10/15/20 years ago.
I am never coming back.
Why can’t I have both of you?
The affair is not why I left.
The other woman has nothing to do with why I left.
The affair is irrelevant.
The affair doesn’t matter.
The other woman listens to me
The other woman admires me.
The other woman adores me.
The other woman is a fantasy.
The other woman is a distraction.
The other woman makes me feel safe.
The other woman makes me feel sane.
You should date other people.
You’ll find someone better than me.
I’m not good enough for you.
I hope you find someone to give you the happiness I couldn’t.
I’m sorry I wasted your time.
I’m sorry I wasted so much of your life.
I hope we can be friends.
I don’t want to make any promises or give you false hope.
I’m not leaving the kids, I’m leaving you.
I did not leave the children.
The kids will be fine with me leaving.
The kids are better off.
The kids are happier now that I’m happy.
I’m a better dad now.
I’m happier now than I’ve ever been.
I hope we can settle this amicably, without the need for lawyers.
Maybe we can get back together when all the debts are settled.
Posted by whatismidlifecrisis
OMG, that MLC Script is PERFECT. Its only been a couple weeks and I think I heard 50% of those already. But again, its early, I still have a chance to hear them all!!!
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LP, a fantastic explanation (to Passi) of something incredibly complex. Even though I worked most of this out a couple of years ago, your writing reminds me of how complicated their issues are.
Thank you.
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Tyks I meant wife!
I'm so glad someone has posted the abandoned wife atydrome thing I saw the site and book and was too scared to read it as it looked so final. I now see fork these comments that possibly the AWS abandoners are likely MLCRs...
The OW in my case has daddy issues and totally did the 'my boss is so great' thing (H is her boss). He was recently made more senior and is pulling out all the stops to play the part (I could see through it and even mentioned a few things like why wasn't he as 'in' with the other directors for e.g. And was shot down in flames - I should add I have always been more succesful, better paid etc so maybe that was an issue in the end).
And OW played the 'poor me, rescuer me I'm a damsel in distress' card perfectly by making up an ex BD who abused her.
It's textbook really.
All the points outlined in the abandoned wife syndrome post are spot on (apart from BD not occurring at a mundane moment) I recognise them all and much of the 'script' from the very early posts...
Doesn't really help with the 'what next' these MLCRs spins round in a fig for sometimes forever..... and the AWS stuff seemed to imply they've gone, move on and give no info as to what may happen with the abandoner so not taking into account the MLC process that they may come out at some point etc....
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My MLC er said at the BD (October 14, 2014)
Marriage was dead long time ago (two months prior to that he was telling me that I was the love of his life, and these difficulties will pass, etc) My S4 was named after him, and definitely was a child of love.
Love is gone long time ago
I told him about finding looking outside the marriage (whereas I was telling him, that if people do not connect in marriage they eventually look outside to satisfy their needs)
I excommunicated him from house (justification for spending 1,5 year prior to BD in garage)
I got clod on him after kids were born. (apparently I forgot to change his diaper. :D)
I am controlling
I am money and status monger
We are incompatible
It is better for children, as I am taking out my anger towards him on my children.
March 27, 2015 (6 months post-BD) after the short-lived affair (3 weeks long) with OW,
1. Marriage was good there was a lot of good stuff in marriage
2.He always felt better and happier when life with me was an option
3. He wants to reconcile whats to know my opinion.
4. It is better for children to grow up in complete families with loving mother and father.
July 2015
I am the love of his life. He loves me again, the feeling, as he said came back, literally overnight. Wants to be a better husband.
September 2015 asks what are my conditions for him to come back home. I provided with very reasonable conditions like counselling, exclusivity in marriage, personal and financial responsibility, etc.
Says he is not jumping through my loops. I only said sorry, these are not loops these are real work that we need to do in order to live together like husband and wife.
Completely second what LP wrote concerning MLC er and OW. My H. was a combination of Knight in Shining Armor ( who was saving OW from her abusive husband, helping her with finding cure from inexplicable debilitating pain (a.k.a opiod addiction) . OW btw had 10 pages long criminal record, ranging from child abuse, writing worthless cheques, prostitution), etc. But in his eyes she was perfect, because she was striking his vulnerable ego. Telling him that he is a great father, (sure, who is getting ready to leave his children and wife and move in with her to support her very expensive addiction habits)
To all others he presented himself as a devoted father, who suffered greatly from his abusive wife, and needed to set himself free. That he is doing it for the best of our children.
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Makes you wonder what is really going on in that mixed up brain
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Rossbren,
I do not wonder anymore. He is now telling friends that the reason for me not wanting him to come back is because I already found somebody else. And that "somebody"is none other than my friend's husband a father of one child. The reason for him not being back with me, of course, cannot be that he refused to do the work, because that would have forced him to look at himself, which MLC ers cannnot/are not able to.
And this is highly educated man, with Phd, who held rather high positions in the major International Organization. Sad, very sad to waste that potential.
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Okay, so I just love this thread. I know now that I am not crazy. I actually sent that article to my h. I know, against the rules and I never do that stuff. But I thought that if he actually read something it might snap him out of the fog. Nope.. so I decided to post his response here to get thoughts on it. I had said in the email to him that the separation agreement would be final and to please make sure that that is what he wants.
So this was his response. I am really looking forward to what people have to say about this email. I had asked him not to respond if he did not have anything positive to say
This email does not require a response either i only hope it gives you some insight on what I am thinking.
I am not so sure this is a response to your email but it is something I have been meaning to do and have been thinking about doing for the last few days.
The reality of were we are weighs heavy on me. I know my silence makes you think I don't care about you and your multiple attempts to try to re connect with me some way, some how. Since we have separated I have done what I usually do in situations where you and I don't agree or where we face confrontations. I have remained quite for the most part. It does not mean I don't care, what it means is we don't communicate very well at all and we never really have. Alot of that is to do with me shutting down, giving in or up or going along just to keep the peace and not to hurt anyone's feelings.
The situation is not fair to you at all. You have not done anything to deserve this type of treatment. I don't mean to be mean. I don't mean to be unfair. I am not a bad person or at least i keep telling my self that.
Let me explain why I believe separation is best for us.
You and I are opposites. And for years that worked well for us. I supported you with my positivity and encouragement you looked out for and supported me and took care of the house and the kids and most everything else that needs to be taken care of to raise a family. We had a good life, not perfect but good. Of course perfect will never likely happen. There were issues like anyone's relationship. I could never satisfy you sexually. I don't think thats anyones fault just the reality. That always weighed on me. But it was something we lived with and adapted to. And of course other issues some bigger some smaller. Our communication as mentioned before sucked and we are both at fault for that.
There is no excuse for me to have looked outside our relationship for what I subconsciously thought i was lacking. But for some reason I did and more than once. That is not right and not fair to you or the vows we took. It wasn't until we separated that I really realized that. We all deserve someone who is committed to us and not seeking the company of others. The fact that I did/do this is a big factor in my decision I don't want to disrespect you like that ever again. You don't deserve that. No one does. I know I wouldn't like it.
One of the reasons that I did seek out another, in hindsight, was to connect with some one who was like me, personality wise. Everybody is different of course, and as I said before you and I are opposite in alot of ways personality wise. I have been getting tired of that for some time and of course rarely saying much about it. quite frankly until all this went down in September i didn't know why i was being agitated and spending more time outside and not feeling like being intimate, but I believe that is how it started. Tired of us being on different sides of things, of thinking of things differently, tired of being the positive one.
I have not been able to try really to get us back on track because of many things but the last one is the biggest reason. While it worked for us for a long time I am to the point now where the ying and yang thing is not working for me. And I feel that is why I have said we have drifted apart. There are things we could change, things we can do different but we are who we are.
I know that this separation changes everything, our future, our lives, obviously our relationship and I feel embarrassed, at times ashamed, at times lost. But I am trying to be honest with myself and you. I know it hurts and it sucks but I am trying to listen to myself which is really hard because it is not something I have ever really done. Maybe I am reading myself wrong I don't know but I am doing my best to try and do the right thing for me and us.
I hope this brings some clarity to you on how things are from my perspective.
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Things my H said at BD
You are controlling
You are needy
My ED is your fault (ouch!)
We have never been happy (for 34 years?)
I don’t want to be your carer
You dress like Waynetta Slob around the house ~ just goggle 'Wayne and Waynetta slob' and you will see just how insulting that one was. BTW I wear yoga pants and a sweatshirt around the house.
You are socially inept
You are the reason I have no friends
I married too young
and I never got to do what I wanted!
When we met and married we were both in the RAF, I stayed in the RAF for 9 years after our marriage and only left when our children came along. H stayed in for another 11 years. Life in the forces was good and H traveled all over the world with his job so 'never go to do what I wanted' where the hell did that come from?
Enyo
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Their brains are in meltdown. Unbelievable. It amazes me that they don't direct their venom to others? Why is it only the LBS and sometimes children? Don't people in their workplace see that there minds are not the same? Apparently not 😳
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Tyks, is this how your husband wrote before bomb drop? Did he send long letters and use this style?
I am wondering because my MLC H was always very direct, simple letters with a little humor. Post bomb drop lengthy texts, letters, soliloquies, monologues, lectures. Oftentimes in a sort of flowery or overwrought style or else like the one you have posted, like a letter someone might compose in a Merchant Ivory film.
I have seen things written by other MLCer and it is like they all have this same writing style. My thinking (I just made a similar comment to Lioness) is that it is the emotional mind trying to sound rational. (Limbic brain without full input of prefrontal cortex function.)
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Tyks,
In one word--- script
The Leaver pretty much said and wrote the same stuff to me.
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I have been reading this thread and yes I see my BD experience here too
I need space don't try to find me
I will always love you
I'm just a paycheck to you all
That's just some of the things he said . He left home in sept 15 and filed for divorce in sept 15 I wasn't served until Nov 15
Still not divorced received one settlement offer my lawyer laughed about it
I told him 2 weeks ago that he needed to call his lawyer because the suit was going to be dropped if he didn't,,,he still hasn't called lawyer...just sent me a text not long ago that it was time for our physical..for insurance..would I like to come to his work and do it together..wtf
He said i spent all HIS money and he was tired of being a husband,father,and grandpa,there was more to life..
So yes thank you for this thread now I truly believe he is in MLC and not a walk away spouse
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Velika... this was written on wednesday... so six months after bd lol
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I am a bit crap at deciphering this script. When I read Tyks letter I thought that it was actually pretty together, open, he shared his feelings it sounded pretty thought out blah blah....It's much more coherent and with thought given than any thing I've ever got from my h. Actually he never has really responded to me with any detail and ignored my attempts to ask questions.....but he did respond to my dad who wrote a pretty detailed letter but all he said really was 'I never meant to hurt anyone, people and feelings change and I wasn't prepared to live a lie)....so total script and that's all he said around BD too. And a load of other sh*te of the list - trapped, want to be true to myself, want to be free, Maybe I'm not good in relationships, I don't want a relationship for a v long time (went straight to one), I just don't feel the way I should about my wife, I feel nothing, I feel numb. He even said he wasn't attracted to women, women piss him off really, he couldn't be bothered. he didn't feel anything for his parents, he drove around pretending to be ok..... loads of nonsense.
My dad pointed out something, he said that my Hs ability to deal with contention/problems etc is almost non existent - it's practically pathological. He just can't so I think this is why he (and many others) avoid. As for the script well it seems as though the aliens send down that info to the MLCRs just in time for BD. It's just ridiculous they all say similar things?! How is that even possible? Is it just the whole 'it's not you it's me' type thing? The Crap excuse said in breakups the world over....
And now I seem to be getting extremely cold detached v briefly scripted almost hostile messages designed only so he can get his things.... sigh....
And Tyks, you said it, this thread is great, it makes you step back and think 'I'm not going mad at all'
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This is one fab thread! I do enoy it a lot! :)
Where do I start?
First I must say, I might not write so much these days (but I do read, almost everything) "MY" mlc'r/depressed XH is a black belt vanisher 8) haven't seen/spoke to him since okt. 14 when oldest son and I tried to start dividing assets but he did ordered a credit card for me in sept -15 (thanks XH but we are divorced) he also wanted to take my car to the dumpster sep -16 (He wanted to do that but he could not send me the paperwork for the vehicle inspection on my car in jan -15 so that I could still be driving MY car?????) Oh and he tried using my youngest son, age 26, as abuse by proxy back in november -16 when I started the process with my laywer. I think about all of this as he wants a reaction from me as in call him, not going to happen XH, I'm dealing with teenagers in school all day long, I know how your kind operate! :D So nothing to report from this "bad-@ss-bat-sh*t-crazy-mlc'r" He is probably drinking heavily, having the time of his life with OW, who knows.
I must tell you something else that happened yesterday with my grad students. One boy said; first time I stepped into your classroom, Passi, I saw you with leather boots and leather jackets and thought to myself; -"Thats a bad-@ass teacher!". That made my day, that 16 year olds thinks that a 50 year old woman is still rocking. Put a smile on my face all day :)
LP; Thanks for your input!
"Mommy why are you letting this happen!?!! I hate you and I love you. Why don't you love us? Why don't you help us?"
1. As an abused child myself, these questions has not entered my mind until now when I'm trying to heal from xh heavy abuse the last years before I kicked him out. You are probably right, LP, that we as children buried these questions cause as a child you are not able to get any answers to this. I know I haven't buried the abuse it self, maybe more the "feeling of helpness" that I felt, if that make any sence.
2. This; I love you and I hate you....this to me is "trauma bonding/Stockholm syndrome". So my 0.02 cents on this must be that child abuse is the first "trauma bonding" experience, since the child has no were to escape also.
3. Doesn't this; I love you..I hate you...why are you letting this happen....why don't you love me. Doesn't all this also sound familiar to all of us LBS. I know all of this is something I was struggling with in the beginning a lot, still do sometimes but it gets easier with time.
And if someone is not respected, then the issue becomes, how can one love a mother who is weak, who is disrespected, who has not protected her child Etc? But who can face that if the only source of constant love and stability is the mother?
My oldest son age 28 (soon) has stated this to me over and over again, maybe not so much about his fathers treatment towards me it's more the other way around. You are not a doormat mum. You should not let him disrespect you. Why are you crying about him when he has done what he has done to you (first christmas eve -14) So, your words correlate a lot with how my son sees me or want to see me. I never connected the dots about this.
That's another source for the root of conflict avoidance and fear of being alone/abandonment which equates to being unloved. They often are very angry, and take out their anger on those around them, which includes things like barroom fights for some. J hurt many many people over the years, some quite seriously. And he was arrested and convict of Domestic Violence on his OW.
Yes, yes yes. My father back in 1995 (when my mum went into mlc with her OM 1980, my father started his journey and had his own, never recovered from it. Don't know how many women but a lot. I only meet him once or twice 5 years after they divorced) he shot one woman (airgun) who tried to leave him after a 2 year relationship. Ended up in jail. I have been trying to find and read the documents from the court but it's archived and NOT in an electronic way, so it's like looking for a needle in a haystack. I so want to read his psychological evaluation and see what he suffered from.
something incredibly complex.
Yes Medusa,
So complexed but yet so easy and simple psychology and from what I "know/have seen" even if they do hit that low depression state at some point unless they seek an IC, I don't think so many of them will really understand why they did what they did. To get that much needed help to heal that inner child and become better humans, show full remorse toward the LBS/children etc.
Tyks, I will save a copy of your husbands mail. What a joy to send this "script" back to a mlc. Will they get it, hearing their own words?
A questions for everyone. Why do they always say; we are going to seperate, we are seperating, we have seperated. Why don't they use the word divorce? I read that a lot from others refering to what their H/W says. My xh also used the word seperate and when I pointed out "DIVORCE" he went all monster at me with these black scary eyes, totally balistic angry.
Don't people in their workplace see that there minds are not the same?
"I" have a situation at work, 2 coworkers having an affair. Don't worry, I make life a living hell for these but they are living in their bubble in lalaland. Him 50 her 35isch. We were away on a skiing trip 2 weeks ago and I caught them in the act so to speak again, last time was a year ago, that time they did stop after 15 min of me yelling and screaming! ;D but I talked to another coworker what did happened and if we are talking about the "state" of the OW, people do notice (even people who don't know about the affair) they notice the change in behavor and the mental changes. The OW in my workplace is hard to reach, to really connect to, very manic bahavior for the last 1,5 years.
Last but not least, the roles in this play. I think in my case OW#1 big daddy issues, and the only reason I say that is bc of the difference in age. The second after OW#1 dumped him some weeks after I kicked him out (they had soooo much feeelings for eachother and still their relationship couldn't handle more then some weeks in daylight, still hidden for most people) OW#2, damsel for sure, needy, posted about their relationship on FB before anyone know OW#1 was out of the picture. XH, knight in shining (he will not win an oscar for that part down the road) but if we talk about the psychological aspects of this. When in the relationship I don't think they think about these roles, they are subconsciously playing out these roles but I think they will not understand this until they solve the puzzle with an IC later on. That's another 0.02 from me
OK, long post
Hugs to you all
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I just remembered something my MLCer said to me when he was deep into his MLC. Trust me when I tell you I am a nice person. People who know me well will tell you I have the patience of a saint. I am a good friend to anyone who needs one. I am as selfless as they come. That's just me. Well, when H was deep into his MLC and EA, he told me I was not the nice person everyone thought I was! At that point, I felt like he was a total stranger. I had to share that one.
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Great thread.
I heard:
I love you but I'm not in love with you
I married you because you were pregnant, I was coming over to break our two month engagement off the night you told me you were pregnant
God trapped me
We didn't have the "chemistry" that we should have had
We are roommates
We were only meant to be friends
You didn't do the dishes one weekend when I went on a trip
You used to fall asleep in your nice clothes I bought you
You didn't compliment me when I wore a suit as I was leaving you for the weekend to go out of town
I couldn't stand that you always gave "I don't know" as an answer to where you wanted to eat. It is my least favorite phrase.
I've given all I have to give to this relationship
I'm unhappy
I don't love you
I fear you are becoming your mom
Your mom moving in with us for 3 months wrecked us
I wish I could put you and the kids on pause and crawl under a rock somewhere
The things I feel and want to say are trapped inside of me somewhere and I can't say the right things or get you or anyone else to understand
No one gets what I am going through
After D was final:
I am jealous of your support you are getting from others
When asked any questions about his plans for the future or his thoughts on anything... "I don't know"
When asked about why he proposed, knowing that he married me because I was pregnant he said
I never said that. I never said that I was coming to your house to break up with you. What I said was that I don't know if I would have gone through with it, had you not gotten pregnant
I will add to this as I think of things
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Thanks for your indepth and knowledgeable reply Passiflora. It is sad to read that you seldom post now, for whatever reason. I loved your post ❤. Please contemplate on sharing your wisdom with us all more....we could certainly all benefit from your experience and presence 😘
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Off top of my head:*
I never loved you as a man.
We are friends.
We have a parenting relationship.
I am not leaving our son, I am leaving you.
Our son will be happy if I am happy.
OW and I have better chemistry.
This is not a story of a man who once loved his wife and had seven bad years.
We had a bad marriage.
Our marriage made me physically sick.
For the last four years I have wondered, How old does our son have to be before I leave Velika?
Mommy didn't cut up fruit for me. (Told to our then S7.)
We didn't dance enough at our wedding.
We didn't sleep together on our wedding night.
"Remember Earth Day 2004?" (Said in ominous tones. I still don't remember.)
I don't like the way you have handled stress, and the way you have handled my leaning you is why I had to leave you.
We had a happy family life but I wanted to teach our son a lesson.
This isn't about OW.
OW was a catalyst.
OW is currently a good friend.
OW is very special to me.
OW would be a good friend to you.
Would you consider living with me and another woman as a platonic friend?
OW wants to meet you.
I am taking steps to lead a more fulfilling life!
There is much happiness to come!
We don't need to hire lawyers.
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I love this thread I've thought of a few things I missed
'I didn't fall out of love with the dog'
'I can do what I want we aren't going out' (no we are married)
'Maybe I just didn't mean the things I said in the cards, you just say stuff don't you (when I questioned all the loving messages in recent cards)
'This is the hardest de idiom ive ever had to make. It it is the right one'
'I would have always left you at some point anyway, 2 year, 2 years, 5 years'
'You deserve to be with someone who can love you like you deserve to be loved'
'We didn't have any passion' (this nearly floored me as he was suffering ED and low sex Drive and had done for years)
'I can't imagine being intimate with you again (we had been 3 days before'
'I'm not attracted to women'
'I feel numb'
'I don't have anyone around me I have no brothers and sisters'
'I'm not happy' (said over a million times)
'If you'd have been with one of my friends there'd have been arguments all the time'
'I'm intimidated by you'
'I need to be true to myself'
'I've never done anything with my life'
'It pains me to say but there really is no feeling there' (towards me)
'I look at pictures of us from a years or so ago and I just don't feel that way anymore'
This was all after I found him out flirting with ow on text. We had had our wedding anniversary a couple of months before and he has said 'I love you more and more each day, I'm so proud of us' he'd said in a text after a minor row a few months before 'the only thing in the world that effects me is arguing with you I want us to live a long and happy life together' and another separate text thread 'I know I'm crap at empathy but I love you more than you will ever truly know and I think that counts way more' and that's only the big declarations my text thread is full of normal loving text exhbages with love pet names etc as we have had for the past 12 years. Then one day it's stopped and all the above happened! And all he says about this is 'people say stuff to just go along with it' ???????
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'I look at pictures of us from a years or so ago and I just don't feel that way anymore'
In my husband's case about 2 weeks ago we looked at pictures of us from years ago and he said, "Those were the good days, not like these days."
With time I think they realize all these reasons are excuses. The question is, what are the REAL reasons they do all this $h!te?
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'I look at pictures of us from a years or so ago and I just don't feel that way anymore'
In my husband's case about 2 weeks ago we looked at pictures of us from years ago and he said, "Those were the good days, not like these days."
With time I think they realize all these reasons are excuses. The question is, what are the REAL reasons they do all this $h!te?
I keep coming back to this thread and learning more and realizing more. Another thing that happened recently - I found vacation photos from August 2014. When I looked at them this time, I realized H's eyes had that look that I have read on these boards about. Almost like an emptiness? And there I was smiling in the photo, having no idea that he was in his EA with a skank and somewhere in the process of MLC.
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Passi, you asked why some of them dontnuse the word "divorce". I've also wondered this as X has only used it once.
I think that some of them don't want it--they just want to be separated and live the "single" lifestyle. For some it might be that they aren't sure and so they don't use it as a way of keeping us tethered. If they never say it, our hopes remain. And, I think, hey also may avoid the word because of the need to be the "good guy".
The best X could do was say he was "pretty sure" he wanted a divorce (he was asked by a mediator). But, he also did things that pushed me to be the one to file. So not saying it, for him, may also have been a control thing. He dragged his feet not so much because he wanted me but I think in his weird world, he wanted the hope to continue so he wouldn't have to pay alimony and half of his retirement. This MLCer is all about money.
In my case the divorce became a consequence of his decisions, and he dragged it out for as long as humanly possible. I continue to get controlling behavior, but I haven't gotten the monster since right after it was finalized in December, when he accused me of "jamming" it through (after 3 years) so he would have to pay taxes as a single person for 2016. :o
I wold love to hears others thoughts on this because it is strange how some of them react to divorce.
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'I look at pictures of us from a years or so ago and I just don't feel that way anymore'
In my husband's case about 2 weeks ago we looked at pictures of us from years ago and he said, "Those were the good days, not like these days."
With time I think they realize all these reasons are excuses. The question is, what are the REAL reasons they do all this $h!te?
I keep coming back to this thread and learning more and realizing more. Another thing that happened recently - I found vacation photos from August 2014. When I looked at them this time, I realized H's eyes had that look that I have read on these boards about. Almost like an emptiness? And there I was smiling in the photo, having no idea that he was in his EA with a skank and somewhere in the process of MLC.
Belle, I did this too and noticed the same. Even going way back, I saw a type of anger/hardness/sadness I hadn't properly registered before.
Now his eyes often look vacant or blown out. So strange.
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I have pictures of my husband on my phone. One is us before we were married, and we both look relaxed and happy and alive and in love. Another is a picture of him the first time he ever rode an airplane and he just looks so alive and excited. Another is of him when he was 13. Looks serious and miserable. But this was when his father was abusing him.
There's a photo I've seen of him with OW. She looks like Snow White, with the same lack of depth and emotion as the cartoon character, and he for some odd reason chose to wear his glasses in the photo. But he looks stiff, serious and his eyes are vacant. Not happy at all.
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Passi, you asked why some of them dontnuse the word "divorce". I've also wondered this as X has only used it once.
I think that some of them don't want it--they just want to be separated and live the "single" lifestyle. For some it might be that they aren't sure and so they don't use it as a way of keeping us tethered. If they never say it, our hopes remain. And, I think, hey also may avoid the word because of the need to be the "good guy".
The best X could do was say he was "pretty sure" he wanted a divorce (he was asked by a mediator). But, he also did things that pushed me to be the one to file. So not saying it, for him, may also have been a control thing. He dragged his feet not so much because he wanted me but I think in his weird world, he wanted the hope to continue so he wouldn't have to pay alimony and half of his retirement. This MLCer is all about money.
In my case the divorce became a consequence of his decisions, and he dragged it out for as long as humanly possible. I continue to get controlling behavior, but I haven't gotten the monster since right after it was finalized in December, when he accused me of "jamming" it through (after 3 years) so he would have to pay taxes as a single person for 2016. :o
I wold love to hears others thoughts on this because it is strange how some of them react to divorce.
Medusa-- As you know our timelines, situations, and husbands are eerily similar.
Mine also dragged out the divorce, even didn't show up at a hearing and somehow blamed me... :o My lawyer said it was strange dealing with a divorce when neither client seemed to want to get divorced.
However, when I offered to change from a divorce to a separation (since he kept stalling), he actually stomped up and down like a two year old and screamed, "NO, I NEED A DIVORCE". My lawyer, his lawyer and myself just looked at each other with our mouths open.
I found out later he was in the process of buying a house while we were still married.
So IMO, I think they want to jump into this new fantasy life but keep us under glass as plan B.
Again, this is my opinion only but the reason for the different types of MLCERs?
The clingers and boomerangs.... they are trying to keep their spouses just close enough in case they change their minds.
The vanishers.... they know we are going to move on and they can't watch bc they too want us around for their plan B. If they don't look then we are still available in their minds.
Heck, the Leaver even said it the day after BD, "I can't imagine you with anybody else",.... I responded with, "well, if you walk out that door you better imagine it, b/c it will take me ten minutes to replace you". He never even once drove down our street again after he walked out the door that day.
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I wold love to hears others thoughts on this because it is strange how some of them react to divorce.
Hi all of you! I really hope you are having a wonderful saturday, spring is here for me!
Rossbren; First thanks for your kind words. I don't write on the board so much cause I think, since I have a "black belt vanisher", that I don't have much info to share on what he is up to. My own dad vanished for 5-6 years when my mum MLC started his mlc, so I have experienced this vanishing act before but they always return one day when they want something is my experience. The only thing I can share on the board mlc vise is other peoples mlc/depression that are in my world. So it's as simple as that why I don't post much but believe me I'm pretty updated on everyone else's threads. I promise I will be better to share and pay it forward, my "healing process" what I have done and are doing, since I'm almost 3 year from BD.
Medusa (and the rest)
I know some of you might not agree with me, but some might. I'm only speaking from my own experience now. Aprox one month after BD my boss at work directed me to a psychologist ( I couldn't function at work, tough one but my XH emotional/psychological abuse in the end made me think I was the crazy one. I felt I was in "Matrix". I did have the best Boss ever all costs was paid by my employer) After 6 months of treatment, I started treatment in the care of "our" women shelter for aprox 8 months, after that I got 6 months of another group therapy also within the organization of abused women in my city.
All of these; psychologist, therapy coaches, lawyers, police has stated what I went through is abuse/domestic violence. My now XH has never put his hand on me before, never this "heavy" emotional/psychological abuse but I do recognize a lot of other things during our 32 years. Stuff that I down played, excused him for, didn't stand up for me and my needs, this I'm fully responsible for. My own FOO issues, child abuse, the "only" relationship I've seen and or copy was my mum+dad. It was very hard to "label" myself "DV victim" took aprox 1,5 years, even harder to put the label "abuser" on my xh around 2 years. It's also really really strange how one of my SIL refers to the other SIL that "our divorce" is a "Happy divorce" and the DV shelter+lawyer describe the same divorce as an "high conflict" divorce.
I'm 100% convinced that what we have been exposed to is labeled domestic violence. I'm not saying that the whole marriage was violent but what "monster" does; emotional/psychological/physical/financial/to children is abuse. "Only" infidelity to a person causes/ can cause PTSD, those of us who experienced this during a long period of time and/or during childhood, might also be diagnosed with Complex PTSD. This "power and control" they are "doing" is a way to manipulate or abuse another person. I found the material from the "Duluth model" very informative.
What causes someone to "behave" in this way? Depression? Mlc? Infidelity? FOO? personality disorder? Substance abuse? All of the above? This I don't know. Can they improve, take responsibility for their actions? Understanding the hurt/pain they inflicted in other people? This I don't know, maybe someone who has a "recovering" mlc husband/wife can ask him/her. Law Professors "friend" J, did seamed to grasp what h*ll he put other people in. I only have my own experience from my father on this subject, and he's been dead since 2007 something. But I remember those letters he sent when he was in jail for shooting that woman with an air gun who was going to leave him. I've been NC with him 10-15 years by that time he reached out and wanting us children to come and visit him in jail. The only thing he stated over and over again in the letter was poor me poor me, I'm a victim etc. It is still, to this day, hard to grasp how some one, convicted for shooting someone, paint himself as a victim!? I mean how on earth?
Oh, this is going to be another long post. :D
So, back to Medusas question.
The last research I read from a university in my country, dated autumn 2015 on men and their abuse, their moral for doing what they are doing etc. The research state that not participating in selling property, delaying settlements etc are controlling tactics used to abuse the other part, usually the woman It's in swedish but I'll copy/paste some from the abstract that's in english. If anyone wants to read it, I can send you a link. It's in swedish but I think you can use google translate! Any way, here is what the abstract says;
The main part of the analysis explores how the interviewed men present themselves. In other words, the thesis highlights the men’s explanations and portrayals of their own retold experiences. The analysis shows that all the men construct a morally decent description of their selves. Inspired by Scott & Lyman’s (1968) sociological concept ‘accounts’ and Goffman’s (1971) ‘presentation of self’, the moral work, made by presenting the retold violent acts and their relationships, are identified.
Furthermore, the men switch between denying and claiming responsibility. At times they deny responsibility for the violence used and place it with the women (“it’s her fault”), their background, or specific situations. At other times they claim responsibility, and do this on three different levels; 1) in the situation, 2) by explaining that they have been trying to end the relationship and 3) by arguing that they has been trying to seek help. The men also negotiate the concepts of ‘violence’ and ‘women abuser’, making efforts to make distinctions between themselves and “real” women abusers.
Sunny regards from me to all of you
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"Remember Earth Day 2004?" (Said in ominous tones. I still don't remember.)
I don't know why I keep laughing when I read this. It almost sounds like a meme you could put together with all sorts of ominous photos with the text "Remember Earth Day 2004?" plastered on top of them.
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"Remember Earth Day 2004?" (Said in ominous tones. I still don't remember.)
I don't know why I keep laughing when I read this. It almost sounds like a meme you could put together with all sorts of ominous photos with the text "Remember Earth Day 2004?" plastered on top of them.
😂😭😂😭
Yes like a candlelight vigil. "Never Forget." But there can be no mention of what we are not forgetting.
Much like MLC itself.
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Here's for you Velika. Maybe next time he brings it up you can give him this answer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cHLoHou8uY
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Here's for you Velika. Maybe next time he brings it up you can give him this answer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cHLoHou8uY
LOL 😂
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'I look at pictures of us from a years or so ago and I just don't feel that way anymore'
In my husband's case about 2 weeks ago we looked at pictures of us from years ago and he said, "Those were the good days, not like these days."
With time I think they realize all these reasons are excuses. The question is, what are the REAL reasons they do all this $h!te?
I keep coming back to this thread and learning more and realizing more. Another thing that happened recently - I found vacation photos from August 2014. When I looked at them this time, I realized H's eyes had that look that I have read on these boards about. Almost like an emptiness? And there I was smiling in the photo, having no idea that he was in his EA with a skank and somewhere in the process of MLC.
Belle, I did this too and noticed the same. Even going way back, I saw a type of anger/hardness/sadness I hadn't properly registered before.
Now his eyes often look vacant or blown out. So strange.
I think my H was panicked by what he felt, when he said it it was probably one of the most panicked times I had seen him he was literally shaking saying I look at pics and I just don't feel the same, I can't imagine being intimate with you like it was a massive shock and it scared him and then he did the whole I have to go, I can't stand the tension (no tension only his). he left about an hour later - not planned, nothing packed he just tyre stuff into a bag and went.... when he came back 2 weeks later to collect some stuff he was a total alien, hard, business like and harsh. Very 'this is happening, I won't ever change my mind' it was surreal. Like being in a weird horror movie....I'm almost sure he was on something (he was doing a lot of cocaine at this time).
The eye thing has haunted me for ages I look at pics from 2014 and 2015 and H literally looks like a different person, wholesome, healthy, happy, relaxed and as you look through 2015 it changes and then 2016 it's dramatically different even his style changed. I was showing my IC and she was stunned. He just looks so cold and hardened, I wish I could show you all you would see what I mean. His look is almost sinister.... and he just looks like he's not really there. It's incredible really and v upsetting.
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I had been trying (to no avail) to accommodate h for the kids' sake. I had told him that I would sleep on the couch and be in a different room when he is downstairs. I had told him I would leave and stay elsewhere for a night or 2. I offered to be in a different room if he wanted to come and spend time with the kids. Nothing has been acceptable other than me moving out so he can come home.
Well... I was told by Lioness and a couple of my family members to stop trying to accommodate him. One of my family members mentioned that I have offered all I can and it is HIS choice to make and deal with. I see it now.
My only concern right now is taking care of myself and my children. I will no longer entertain the alien who wants to control me.
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My only concern right now is taking care of myself and my children. I will no longer entertain the alien who wants to control me.
It is ironic how the MLCer often states as one of the reasons for leaving the marriage is that the LBS was too controlling, yet in their actions during MLC they like to control everything. And I mean everything! Unfortunately it doesn't work like that!
MendingLioness....that is all you can do under the circumstances....be a bloody fantastic mother and look after yourself. Leave everything else to fate ❤
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My H was upset that I told him he needed to choose as marriage was made for 2 people, not 3 :)
So he wrote me....I need to sort this out for myself. I don't want anything from you.
That is all I got, to this day.
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I think my H was panicked by what he felt, when he said it it was probably one of the most panicked times I had seen him he was literally shaking saying I look at pics and I just don't feel the same, I can't imagine being intimate with you like it was a massive shock and it scared him and then he did the whole I have to go, I can't stand the tension (no tension only his). he left about an hour later - not planned, nothing packed he just tyre stuff into a bag and went.... when he came back 2 weeks later to collect some stuff he was a total alien, hard, business like and harsh. Very 'this is happening, I won't ever change my mind' it was surreal. Like being in a weird horror movie....I'm almost sure he was on something (he was doing a lot of cocaine at this time).
Yup....that pretty much happened here except he didn't throw anything in a bag. Left with the clothes on his back and his truck. Lots of his stuff is still here. I don't think my exH was on anything other than the batcrap crazy train he had boarded. :o
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Ha ha ha Still baffled that did make me lol.
I find it v weird that all these LBSs the world over report such similarities even down to the words they say. And I am also totally shocked that this is just not more known about or recognised. How Can such a destructive thing not be?
Rossbren, you make a v good point, the whole 'I'm trapped, you're controlling (I never heard you're controlling) is in stark contrast to how they behave. It does sound in so many cases that the MLCr often acts in an opposite way to the way they did. My H would literally call and text and always be touching base, I never required it but he would always do it and yet now, in MLC, I literally hear nothing. He's a vanisher. It's an opposite! And he is stubborn and angrier where as he was never like that, always yielding and always calm. Again opposites? I've kind of alluded to it before but he was softer and wholesome and now he's hard and sinister again opposite. Hmmm?
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Rossbren, you make a v good point, the whole 'I'm trapped, you're controlling (I never heard you're controlling) is in stark contrast to how they behave. It does sound in so many cases that the MLCr often acts in an opposite way to the way they did. My H would literally call and text and always be touching base, I never required it but he would always do it and yet now, in MLC, I literally hear nothing. He's a vanisher. It's an opposite! And he is stubborn and angrier where as he was never like that, always yielding and always calm. Again opposites? I've kind of alluded to it before but he was softer and wholesome and now he's hard and sinister again opposite. Hmmm?
The funny thing in my situation is that the OW is very controlling. She controls everything, yet he idolises her, she can do no wrong, he can not see her manipulative ways. I often wonder if he now realises what controlling is. I guess we just have to have faith in the whole MLC process. Time.....it takes time.....a bloody long time, which is very heartbreaking to us all.
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I asked W yesterday what happened to us and why. She just Said "too late ,,," that a great answer which i can Work with going Forward.
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I asked W yesterday what happened to us and why. She just Said "too late ,,," that a great answer which i can Work with going Forward.
Silly WhyUs!
She is not in the mindset to be looking for fixes. She has made her mind up for the moment. Don't ask those questions and don't let the answers bother you.
Ignore what she thinks and do what you think is best. Change what you want to change and if she responds well to it, it is a nice practice for a future relationship. If it will change her mind, she will be your future relationship. So, focus on future relationships and change YOU, don't ask her what needs to be changed to change the current one.
She'd just love saying Too Late, because according to her you are the source of all her problems and she wants to make you feel like that. And you walk right into that desire she is having.
Been there too. :)
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My only concern right now is taking care of myself and my children. I will no longer entertain the alien who wants to control me.
It is ironic how the MLCer often states as one of the reasons for leaving the marriage is that the LBS was too controlling, yet in their actions during MLC they like to control everything. And I mean everything! Unfortunately it doesn't work like that!
MendingLioness....that is all you can do under the circumstances....be a bloody fantastic mother and look after yourself. Leave everything else to fate ❤
I feel my h is doing everything possible to control me. His new thing is making it so I have no money. Basically, I pay what bills I can and he will pick up the rest leaving me with nothing. I believe this is his way to get me to go where he wants and when. This is all he has left to control me with. I also feel as if he is trying to keep me close just in case. He uses divorce to try and get some emotion from me.
MendingLioness... I just told my h that this is what I am doing. Living for me and my kids.
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I never really considered them using money to control us. My h hasnt helped me in a year and a half. My child support hasnt kicked in yet and he still dont offer. Maybe he is using it as control because thats the only thing he has left.
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MendingLioness... I just told my h that this is what I am doing. Living for me and my kids.
[/quote]
At this point, that is all we can do, OHM... The mlcers aren't thinking of anyone but themselves and it leads to monster... Sad but we deserve happiness as do our children and we can't achieve that until we focus off of the h.
((Hugs))
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Sorry. Haven't learned how to quote yet.
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I am so glad that I am catching up on this thread. It is great!!!
"Mommy why are you letting this happen!?!! I hate you and I love you. Why don't you love us? Why don't you help us?"
1. As an abused child myself, these questions has not entered my mind until now when I'm trying to heal from xh heavy abuse the last years before I kicked him out. You are probably right, LP, that we as children buried these questions cause as a child you are not able to get any answers to this. I know I haven't buried the abuse it self, maybe more the "feeling of helpness" that I felt, if that make any sence.
2. This; I love you and I hate you....this to me is "trauma bonding/Stockholm syndrome". So my 0.02 cents on this must be that child abuse is the first "trauma bonding" experience, since the child has no were to escape also.
3. Doesn't this; I love you..I hate you...why are you letting this happen....why don't you love me. Doesn't all this also sound familiar to all of us LBS. I know all of this is something I was struggling with in the beginning a lot, still do sometimes but it gets easier with time.
I agree #3 is exactly how I feel right now.
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I am wondering, then, is the MLCer reenacting the abuse they experienced onto us, the spouse, to make us the victim?
My ex grew up with an abusive stepfather, who had a very strong regional accent. In the worst moments of cruelty to me, he uses this accent. It's really nasty. Once he even told me that I reminded him more of his abusive stepfather than anyone he ever met.
The OW he hooked up with highly resembles his mom, in personality, socioeconomic background, and looks. Now they are still together as a result of an unplanned pregnancy — when my ex was the same age as our son is now.
This is a shocking detailed reenactment, but I can't tell if the mind has a "method to the madness" or if this is just totally unconscious mess created by a fearful and unstable/damaged mind. After all, it seems at one point these men and women could control it. Something had to happen to tip them into this state.
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I am wondering, then, is the MLCer reenacting the abuse they experienced onto us, the spouse, to make us the victim?
Yes and yes again....I really believe this is the case...unfortunately for us LBS's 😢😢😢
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Reasons for leaving:
First conversation he was very sweet and compassionate:
- I am happy but not sure if as happy as can be
- I've done a lot of thinking after helping others out with their relationships
Next day: monster (s11 heard all of this from his room)
- you are the reason for all of the bad in my life
- I have not been happy for years but just realized it
- you are worthless and have been for years
- we have nothing in common
- you are not the person you use to be
- you need friends
- you need a real job ( I work f/t as an assistant to the teacher for special need preschoolers)
- I am just a paycheck to you
- I can do so much more sexually then you
- I can't guarantee you a future
- you can't even lose weight and wasted so Much money on gym memberships
Monstering a week later
- my family says you are lazy with no drive
- I'm leaving for GA in 2 days for a week
- ive given all I have to our marriage
- you are horrible with money
- you work 24 hours and I work 60 hrs
- u are incapable of change
- I have been unhappy for 10 years
- the house is always a mess
And most of what was said before
Many more monstering and excuses since everytime I fix something from his original complaints.
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I am wondering, then, is the MLCer reenacting the abuse they experienced onto us, the spouse, to make us the victim?
I think so too. My h's father married ow (in Vegas without telling boys) right about the same time he was my s11 age and told him that he will always choose his new wife and her family over them. They had a falling out when I met my h and his father and family wanted nothing to do with h for about 5 years. They reconnected again because with s2. When s was 7 and dad nearly died, dad told h that he wants to have nothing to do with him or family and that he didn't even like who he was. Sounds like a lot of what he is doing now.
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I am wondering, then, is the MLCer reenacting the abuse they experienced onto us, the spouse, to make us the victim?
This is a shocking detailed reenactment, but I can't tell if the mind has a "method to the madness" or if this is just totally unconscious mess created by a fearful and unstable/damaged mind. After all, it seems at one point these men and women could control it. Something had to happen to tip them into this state.
To me it is not so important what happened to tip them into this state, but what gets them out of it. My husband consciously expressed his need for an OW to put up with his "nastiness" (=reenacting abusive father) and even told her this when he met her. I do believe this came from being around MIL after we moved in with her some months before. Something triggered memories of childhood and now he is the same age as his father was when he stood up to his father and told him to stop the abuse.
Some also have what HB called "children of the issues." My husband has both. I think they are simply two sides of the same coin.
However, I'd like to hear from those who are further along in the process, whether you actually reconciled with your MLCer or not, did you see them get rid of these different personalities eventually? And if so, can you attribute this to any specific factors? And is this necessary for them to come out of the fog? Or do these personalities sometimes get integrated into their future personality after MLC?
I'm almost wondering if my standing up firmly and definitively like he did with his father would snap him out of it. OK, my husband threatened his father that he would kill him if he didn't stop abusing his mother, which is a bit extreme, but a threat to leave him might be the same.
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I am wondering, then, is the MLCer reenacting the abuse they experienced onto us, the spouse, to make us the victim?
I think so too. My h's father married ow (in Vegas without telling boys) right about the same time he was my s11 age and told him that he will always choose his new wife and her family over them. They had a falling out when I met my h and his father and family wanted nothing to do with h for about 5 years. They reconnected again because with s2. When s was 7 and dad nearly died, dad told h that he wants to have nothing to do with him or family and that he didn't even like who he was. Sounds like a lot of what he is doing now.
All of this is just so sad! It literally breaks my heart that I cannot fix anything for my MLCer and all the othe MLCer's and their families.
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I see so many men that are torn between those areas, unable to find a balance, unable to confront the mother about being angry with their mother for not protecting them because that means they risk their source of love, while the logical part of their brain understands she was powerless.
That's another source for the root of conflict avoidance and fear of being alone/abandonment which equates to being unloved. They often are very angry, and take out their anger on those around them, which includes things like barroom fights for some. J hurt many many people over the years, some quite seriously. And he was arrested and convict of Domestic Violence on his OW. And like his mother, the OW bailed him out of jail and took him home using her child support money to do that. And so the circle was complete, a mirror of his childhood situation, except that he did not beat her children. He beat her instead.
Since he has healed and worked out that root of tension, he has not shown any indication of violence towards anyone.
The cycle can stop. It has stopped for J. It has stopped for me.
Lp
This is all very interesting. You gave me some new thoughts about my husband's dynamic with his mother. I believe she is having issues with age. She gets aggressive toward me sometimes or accuses me of lying etc. All of which I don't think she can control. I regard it as signs of dementia. But when I tell my husband about these incidents just out of concern for her and ask him not to say anything, he will get very angry at her and bossy and tell her to knock it off and not harass me.
How did your husband manage to break the cycle? I'd like to hear more about that.
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I often wonder if my h is projecting his mother's abandoning of him and his sister and his father abuse of him on me.
His mother had left him with his father when he was young. He had told me of an incident where his father beat him with a belt when he was taking a shower. I guess there was some favoritism that took place among the stepbrothers.
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That the OW has no clue is not important. Her place in the drama is not relevant to him replaying these memories and patterns. She is nothing more than a tool to make his need to replay possible. In ways she is playing the role of his mother in the pattern. She has the correct skills to do that on a base level.
Actually, I think it does matter in my husband's case. She believed he is really tough and that no one could ever lay a hand on him. While on one level I think he is playing his father in all this, at another level I think he is playing himself and projecting an image of himself as someone who escaped the abuse altogether because he was strong.
That the OW does not know of his previous abuse is part of her roll in this drama. It is so common that it is part of the script described within the relationship. It is so common that it is listed in articles, for example,
#10: MOST MEN IN MIDLIFE CRISIS HAVE AFFAIRS
The other woman knows little or nothing of his history or flaws. The mid-lifer feeds the other woman rewritten history about his spouse. She starts the relationship by idealizing the mid-lifer. The mid-lifer can portray himself as heroic, perfect and accomplished. Both individuals are living a fantasy.
He cannot play out this roll as easily with someone who knows his history since he is rewriting history and trying on another persona.
If she didn't fit the roll, she would not have been cast in it and someone else would have. And that qualification was not deciding but convenient for him as he doesn't even have to be all that careful or specific or detailed in his rewriting of history because she didn't have a clue. That's the qualification she brought to the table and how perfectly expendable she is. That's a part of keeping the fantasy alive for them.
But in the long run, it is just very unimportant as it is not a lasting quality.
Lp
What I find a bit odd is that it was important for him in the beginning of our marriage for him that I know about the abuse. He acted odd, and he felt he owed it to me to explain his odd behavior, and he did so in light of his childhood. And I accepted him that way. And he knows that. He knows he doesn't have to be fake with me. I love him as is. He doesn't need to act. But he was not as successful in his career before now (things are really good at the moment) than he would have liked and I am the only one who knows that and it is a secret I keep for him. So maybe he wants someone who doesn't know that. But I am just proud of him now, I don't care about the past and I have told him he is getting what he deserves now in terms of his career success.
What do you mean that it is not a lasting quality? Is it because keeping up the act gets harder and harder and more stressful?
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Medusa-- As you know our timelines, situations, and husbands are eerily similar.
Mine also dragged out the divorce, even didn't show up at a hearing and somehow blamed me... :o My lawyer said it was strange dealing with a divorce when neither client seemed to want to get divorced.
However, when I offered to change from a divorce to a separation (since he kept stalling), he actually stomped up and down like a two year old and screamed, "NO, I NEED A DIVORCE". My lawyer, his lawyer and myself just looked at each other with our mouths open.
I found out later he was in the process of buying a house while we were still married.
So IMO, I think they want to jump into this new fantasy life but keep us under glass as plan B.
Again, this is my opinion only but the reason for the different types of MLCERs?
The clingers and boomerangs.... they are trying to keep their spouses just close enough in case they change their minds.
The vanishers.... they know we are going to move on and they can't watch bc they too want us around for their plan B. If they don't look then we are still available in their minds.
Heck, the Leaver even said it the day after BD, "I can't imagine you with anybody else",.... I responded with, "well, if you walk out that door you better imagine it, b/c it will take me ten minutes to replace you". He never even once drove down our street again after he walked out the door that day.
Nah, I agree about them wanting to jump headlong into the fantasy while keepingnusnunder glass, at least for the boomerangs. Yours at least needed the divorce. X just went ahead and bought a new house about a year after w eparqted...but kept dragging out the divorce. :o
Passi, it's great to have you back posting!
I agree that we are the victims of abuse. Like you, so,e f it was subtle during the marriage and I would never have realized it wa abuse because the relationship became codependent. When I finally accepted that, I was able to accept responsibility for my role in it and begin my own healing from own own issues.
The abstract from the study is fascinating and give some interesting insight into how they think. Shortly after our old house sold (he had to do all that work because I'd moved), he wrote an email to me, my attorney and his attorney saying it was a good thing he is an honest man because a smart man would have defaulted on the house. Can you say twisted attempt at being the good guy and somehow taking responsibility?
But it makes sense that they would lay blame, etc. Taking real responsibility means doing the hard work that we have done, and they simply aren't capable of that.
The important thing for us is to recognize that we are victims of abuse. It isn't easy to say your spouse is abusive, especially if for the majority of the marriage he wasn't (or it was very subtle). None of us likes to be a victim, but I believe the only path to healing is to accept that the constant games the MLCer plays is abusive and get ourselves help.
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Hi I m reading some of the posts about ex dragging divorce....Me and a friend have asked this many times but the most recent question with us is why do they also stall with child support even though courts order them to pay up ? Is it a game they play so they keep us trapped in courts and under some kind of control or is it simply cause they don t care what happens to us and the kids? A lawyer said its a game so that we give up and stop going after them for child support so they can continue with their new lives in peace ......to me it s death-wish cause they know they could end up in jail!!
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..Me and a friend have asked this many times but the most recent question with us is why do they also stall with child support even though courts order them to pay up ?
I don't think most MLCers are as complicated as we make them out to be. They're going through a selfish phase and really don't like to think about anything or anybody but themselves. Child support?? meh. Not something they want to think about so they ignore it, just like everything else.
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I agree with that with every ounce of my being.
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Recently, he told a family member that he pretended to be happy for the kids. Really? Sheesh
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..Me and a friend have asked this many times but the most recent question with us is why do they also stall with child support even though courts order them to pay up ?
I don't think most MLCers are as complicated as we make them out to be. They're going through a selfish phase and really don't like to think about anything or anybody but themselves. Child support?? meh. Not something they want to think about so they ignore it, just like everything else.
Completely agree Nah. I think it's v easy to over analyse. When actually I think it's just extreme pathological selfishness along with a total lack of self awareness. They just aren't thinking straight so I don't think there is a great deal of logical thought about anything andvthey are so focused on their own nonsense entirely self absorbed they just don't think much beyond that.
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No more discussion needed, I just found the secret tape from a MLC convention. All questions answered.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=finding+nemo+mine+mine+mine+birds&view=detail&mid=5CA6F0FE474F3D0DD0535CA6F0FE474F3D0DD053&FORM=VIRE
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No more discussion needed, I just found the secret tape from a MLC convention. All questions answered.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=finding+nemo+mine+mine+mine+birds&view=detail&mid=5CA6F0FE474F3D0DD0535CA6F0FE474F3D0DD053&FORM=VIRE
Lmao!!! Thanks nah!!! I needed that!!
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LMAO also, Nah!! Thanks for ending my night on a happy note!!
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BAHAHA......I enjoyed that!! ;D
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No more discussion needed, I just found the secret tape from a MLC convention. All questions answered.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=finding+nemo+mine+mine+mine+birds&view=detail&mid=5CA6F0FE474F3D0DD0535CA6F0FE474F3D0DD053&FORM=VIRE
How come we don't have a rolling on floor laughing emoji?
ROFL!
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Thanks for the laugh Nah.....yes 'THEY' are the only ones in their life during MLC.
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Hahaha, nah, so true.
My MLCer didn't give me any reasons, tended to tell everyone else.
What he told me
*I love you but it would work better if we weren't together (when he first wanted to move out)
*You're the only fat girl I've ever stayed with (wtf?! I was a UK size 12 when he said this, US size 10 and i suffer from PCOS)
*You're a b!Tch. Everyone thinks you are. Even SS24 (of course he thinks i am, I'm the one who sets him boundaries)
*It's not you, it's me
*my head's a mess, i feel like i did when we first met (he was an angry person)
*I don't want you around when i lose it (i didn't press this)
*I'm lost
What he told others
*She kicked me out on Christmas Eve which is evil
*I was planning on leaving for weeks
*I was planning on leaving for months
*I was planning on leaving for years
*We were separated months
*We were separated years and she knows it
*The house was a mess
*She wouldnt let the dog on the sofa
*She wouldn't let the dog in the bed
*She controlled everything
*She controlled the kids too much
*She let the kids get away with everything
*We only stayed together for you and your brother (said to D9)
I'm sure that there's more but this is what I've heard.
I'm glad I read this thread. His mum was in a series of abusive relationships and he always felt bad for not being able to defend her. She did always put her boyfriends above her sons (according to MLCer). Since BD, he did get close to her then stopped being as close and is calling her out on a lot of things.
His dad abandoned him time and again throughout his childhood and young adulthood. He rekindled a relationship with him when he was 36/37 from the age of 19. He felt abandoned by his dad again just before BD and i think this was the straw that broke the camel's back.
It's good to have some kind of understanding about what replay is about. ow was in an abusive relationship with her ex, she isn't a very good mum-she leaves her kids with her mum the majority of the time to spend time with him and she is manipulative (said by MLCer himself)-all traits held by his mum.
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W finally got in touch with an old GF of hers. She is also my S18s Gfs Mother. She knows whats going on.
She has been telling me for years that im crap around the house and dont do enough - sure I could have done more but I done stuff which has obviously not been seen. She just sees what she has done. Sure she complained now and again but nothing to make you think it was a gamechanger!
I worked most days from 7 -18 O Clock because W said it was about time I got a promotion. I was being pressured to working more hours and then expected to do all the housework too!
I done all the shopping, including spotting the best offers available. I always took the rubbish out and sorted old paperwaste. I cleaned the cat litter if the boys (forgot) again. I filled and emptied the dish washer. I put the vacuum over the floors (only when she told me too though to be honest). I always lighted and fed the fireplace when it was cold. We cleaned the windows together. We done all the online banking together because its quicker. I cooked when I had the time, mostly weekends. I done all the driving when one of the boys needed a ride. Her coffee was waiting for her everyday when she woke. Weekends the breakfast table was always waiting when she woke. ... she has forgotten all this apparently
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W finally got in touch with an old GF of hers. She is also my S18s Gfs Mother. She knows whats going on.
She has been telling me for years that im crap around the house and dont do enough - sure I could have done more but I done stuff which has obviously not been seen. She just sees what she has done. Sure she complained now and again but nothing to make you think it was a gamechanger!
Whyus, do you have your own thread? I'd like to reply to your posts, but I don't want to hijjack this thread. Your situation sounds very familiar to mine but I see some "don't do's!" in your story.
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..Me and a friend have asked this many times but the most recent question with us is why do they also stall with child support even though courts order them to pay up ?
I don't think most MLCers are as complicated as we make them out to be. They're going through a selfish phase and really don't like to think about anything or anybody but themselves. Child support?? meh. Not something they want to think about so they ignore it, just like everything else.
Yes, yes, yes! I've had so many people, even people in my life who don't know about MLC or don't believe in it, who are suggesting my H is avoiding me and not following up on the D paperwork he sent me in November because he's confused, scared, lost, struggling, doesn't really want the D or any other number of reasons.
I personally think it boils down to he doesn't actually want to honor the agreement he already signed or pay me what he agreed to pay.
He's not paying his bills either, but he's golfing like crazy. I think that about sums it up.
He wants to golf and eat out and spend his money like a teenager with no responsibilities.
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Has anyone got any theories on why the MLCer runs away from their financial obligations....even the ones concerning their own children?
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W finally got in touch with an old GF of hers. She is also my S18s Gfs Mother. She knows whats going on.
She has been telling me for years that im crap around the house and dont do enough - sure I could have done more but I done stuff which has obviously not been seen. She just sees what she has done. Sure she complained now and again but nothing to make you think it was a gamechanger!
Whyus, do you have your own thread? I'd like to reply to your posts, but I don't want to hijjack this thread. Your situation sounds very familiar to mine but I see some "don't do's!" in your story.
In my signatur
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Has anyone got any theories on why the MLCer runs away from their financial obligations....even the ones concerning their own children?
Ohhhh yes that s exactly what I d like to know !!!!!! Is it all just selfishness? Being vindictive towards his old life ? Could not careless? Keep somekind of strings? What I see is them running and leaving others to face the problems while they re enjoying their new life with ow !!
Mine paid for a while after he realized that he was in grave trouble .....in his words he wanted to prove to me that he wants to care for the kids....in my opinion he wanted to save his ass from jail!! Now he s back to not paying and I m back to reporting and dealing with court hearings on my own (since he does not live in the same country)
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My P used to be the most generous person one could meet, but since MLC, he has turned into Scrooge himself. The other day he bought me a bread roll, which btw I didn`t ask for and then demanded the 30 Cents that it had cost:D.
He has even said several times that he won`t be happy until he sees me in the gutter! I haven`t given him the pleasure of that and certainly don`t intend on doing so.
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Today I was told:
- you are depressed and bringing everyone else down with you and everyone knows it
- you are not the best choice for our kids
- I have tried for years
- you have been undesirable for a decade
- you only try to look nice once out of 5 months
- you need new friends
- you need to get out and do more
- I just don't have those feelings anymore for you
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Has anyone got any theories on why the MLCer runs away from their financial obligations....even the ones concerning their own children?
Yes, why this behavior?
The "only" thing I found is that one sign of male depression, about that their thought and feeling patterns has changed are that they are worried about their own economy. This paper is from one of our university hospitals, so it must have some validity I think.
But my dad, I cut contact with him for his last 20 years or so and he might never have recovered from his mlc/depression but he changed a lot from when I was little. In my childhood he was very generous with money but the point from when he "started" his mlc journey up until his death he was the total opposite. He tried to buy us kids in the end with his money, IF we only came and visit him and reconnect with him we would get his money. I never did, there wasn't enough money in the world that could make me forget all his destructive/hurtful stuff he has done to us/me.
The other day he bought me a bread roll, which btw I didn`t ask for and then demanded the 30 Cents that it had cost:D.
LOL……And we have a winner………That's the answer why I have a vanisher………..He know that if he ever did anything like this…..I'll tell him to sue me! 8)
OneHotMess;
You have to put an end to that kind of talk from your H, just walk away when he says stuff like that. That is destructive to your mental health, I think. To have someone tell you, you have been undesirable for a decade and the rest of what he is saying to you. That's abuse and these kind of verbal abuse can do much harm (flashbacks etc) for a long time. He is saying this to bring you down mentally.
What I see is them running and leaving others to face the problems while they re enjoying their new life with ow !!
Yes yes and yes……….but what I really can't wrap my head around is how these woman wants a man behaving like this or are they much more reliable to the OW or are they just as irresponsible but she does the cleaning up there and doesn't mind as long as she can have him by her side?
Hugs
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In my H case he said i spent all HIS money and now I could see how it feels not to have any. That he was the one working he would spend it as he wanted too ,,no questions.
There is no way this is true if you knew me you would know better . It's his rewrite of our history . Sometimes no often I wonder if he just got tired ,out of love ,or if it is MLC. I know most of us do and we may never know .
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Passi,
Unfortunately, this was done through text msgs and started after I told him that I am not going to let him bring me down. The stronger i look to him the more filth that comes out of his mouth. it did hurt me very bad. Had me asking my friends if I was a bad mom. makes me want more and more for this weight to come off to be desirable to other men. Its funny how at first its been awhile and now its been a decade. I honestly didn't think he could have said anymore to get to me but he managed.
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My H has also been paying more attention than usual to the money he spends on the family. I try to show him I don't need his money because I also work and can handle my finances. But it has really called my attention.
Perhaps it's all connected to the mentality he's the only one important, it's his time to do things, it's his money, his rights...his self-centerdness.
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My H has also been paying more attention than usual to the money he spends on the family. I try to show him I don't need his money because I also work and can handle my finances. But it has really called my attention.
Perhaps it's all connected to the mentality he's the only one important, it's his time to do things, it's his money, his rights...his self-centerdness.
Yes, after 14 years of a mutual marriage in which we both contributed I was told shortly after BD that "nothing in this house belongs to you". Later, he apologized for his words, but I felt that since he threw them out there, he really did feel that way.
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Perhaps it's all connected to the mentality he's the only one important, it's his time to do things, it's his money, his rights...his self-centerdness.
Sadly they forget about all the other expenses that still need to be paid irrespective of their MLC. House Insurance, House Rates, Loan Repayments, MV Registrations etc etc. My husbands has even refused to pay for private school fees for 3 of our kids, uniforms, text books, medical expenses, private medical cover....just the basics....my head is still spinning in disbelief. His brain has been fried!!!!
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What I see is them running and leaving others to face the problems while they re enjoying their new life with ow !!
Yes yes and yes……….but what I really can't wrap my head around is how these woman wants a man behaving like this or are they much more reliable to the OW or are they just as irresponsible but she does the cleaning up there and doesn't mind as long as she can have him by her side?
Hugs
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I believe they say alot of lies to ow and show her a completely different face! It s most probably a mask . My ex has become a vegetarian and is living the healthy ,responsible lifestyle and things which i used to do ,things he used to find irritating ,he sees them as cute with her ....like for example I used to drive really close to the steering wheel and he used to get angry and tell me it s as if i don t know how to drive ...he finds that cute with her and calls her an attentive driver .....things I used to want when we were together he gives to her etc etc . I remember she used to call or text when he used to come visit the kids and he used to find her cute and caring while i saw her like a controlling b!tc#. He used to say that i used to use the kids to get him closer to me (in his words i use the kids like a carrot to a donkey) while she is doing just that now using their child to keep him with her ! He used to say that i keep him away from the kids while it was her not wanting him with them !!!! Well now she s got it all ex living with her in another country and me cutting all contacts ....hope she s happy now !
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What I see is them running and leaving others to face the problems while they re enjoying their new life with ow !!
Yes yes and yes……….but what I really can't wrap my head around is how these woman wants a man behaving like this or are they much more reliable to the OW or are they just as irresponsible but she does the cleaning up there and doesn't mind as long as she can have him by her side?
Hugs
Maomina. I really think that the OW,is just as mixed up as the MLCer. Ignore her and her little games....
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He tried to buy us kids in the end with his money, IF we only came and visit him and reconnect with him we would get his money. I never did, there wasn't enough money in the world that could make me forget all his destructive/hurtful stuff he has done to us/me
Passi, my exh has also tried to buy our kids. Stating that if they contacted him he would help out with their schooling and expenses etc. Fortunately my kids have declined. Who thinks that money can buy love?
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Passi, my exh has also tried to buy our kids. Stating that if they contacted him he would help out with their schooling and expenses etc. Fortunately my kids have declined. Who thinks that money can buy love?
Hi Ross,
my now xh does the same (bought youngest son a car this autumn) but he has done this towards our youngest his whole life. I was the "bad cop" in our marriage towards our kids; setting boundaries, time to be home, home work, duties at home etc. Husband never ever "stood by" my "rules", when I think about it now, he never said "you should do what your mum ask you to do". This was the only thing we argued about. Me trying to raise the kids with that you have responsibilities etc. and husband opened his wallet time after time. Never ever did he think about what signs it will send to a child, not doing home work, other duties and be "rewarded" if you did something good. He just gave and used his money, to be the good cop, as to "buy love" from them.
Now when I write this, maybe I'm getting to "philosophical" or "psychological" about it but......if you think about it in a wider concept. If you think that you can BUY love with money/stuff etc. no wonder the mlc male buys so much and pays for everything for the OW. All stories I've heard about, read about states the same, the mlc male spends his money like there is no tomorrow and if the money stops OR OW can't put her hand on them all, he is being kicked out or their arguing begins. Is this a social norm and/or "Hollywood love story" or a mlc man measure his value with how much money he spends on his partner? I write mlc male, cause my xh was not this way towards me.
I can also confirm this, by the way my xh military friend that rented a room from me, that was his story. The real story was that he wanted a relationship with me (and when I kicked him out he wanted a R of my female friends). Anyway in those 6 weeks he stayed in my apt. he wanted us to go out to dinner, he wanted me to book a holiday for us etc. And my whole body was screaming no no no, I don’t want to have anything with you. I’ve known him for 30 years (found out later but I suspected also separated due to infidelity) now 5 years later, he is obese, alcoholic, gambling addiction and “sex-talks” the whole time (no I did not encourage this at all, found it disturbing).
Any way, my BIL acts this way to my SIL (yes he left her bc an OW they have been separated 15 years) He can pay for a 14 days holiday, all included for the OW to some Greek island but he asks my SIL to do all work, like sewing etc. Since my "story" began 2014 and she has gotten herself into counseling, this behavior from her side has stopped, not all enabling stuff but a lot.
As for my 2 sons. Oldest one can't be bought...lol....he has never put that much thought into money and the other one has been this way a lot but maybe he is slowly changing.
Hugs
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Wow--those letters from Nah and Tyks H's could have been written by my H.
-At BD, our R was over under no uncertain terms.
-2 months later he asked me how could I "throw away 20 years together"? (This after I told him to leave my house---he had already moved out but was using it as a party house while I took our S10 on a vacation)
-6 months after BD he wanted to work on our marriage. He wanted "us" back.
-7-9 months after BD--clearly states he does NOT want a divorce. But never talks to me. Or wants to spend any time together, even with our S10.
-10 months after BD-tried to find his way home but just couldn't. Still no mention of a divorce. Oh, and I apparently am a wonderful person.
He is a wallower. I would say half of those reasons at the beginning of this thread have been used by him at one time or another. The script is just amazing to me.
Oh and my H is Fun Uncle Santa Dad too. S10 eats it up b/c he is 10. But, then I am the one who is still there when Dad must escape. Which is every night. Love that MLC!
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One he just texted me tonight....
"I didn't walk out on the kids... I walked out on you... Don't get the 2 mixed up EVER again."
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One he just texted me tonight....
"I didn't walk out on the kids... I walked out on you... Don't get the 2 mixed up EVER again."
y
I too have heard these words not just by him but also by his family .......then when i cut contact he called (last june) and accused me of wanting to move on and leave him behind .....he keeps getting weird and weirder !!!!! Anyways he s done just that moved on and left us behind errmm apparently i m not allowed to do the same :o :o
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Yeah... I don't get it either, Maomina.
H was actually being civil with me yesterday when he dropped the kids off. Then he went upstairs to get some things and found I had taken some of his things off the walls (almost 3 weeks ago when he left) and picked the lockbox to see if he had also sold my engagement ring. Then all hell broke loose. He monstered. Said he was going to have me locked up. Blah blah blah. Ugh. So done with monster.
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One he just texted me tonight....
"I didn't walk out on the kids... I walked out on you... Don't get the 2 mixed up EVER again."
y
I got this too, but he did walk out on the kids. Refused to support them financially and emotionally, walked out of their lives and hasn't looked back. He doesn't see them, or phones them. APPARENTLY THAT IS NOT WALKING OUT ON THE KIDS? I am totally confused......
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One he just texted me tonight....
"I didn't walk out on the kids... I walked out on you... Don't get the 2 mixed up EVER again."
I got this too, but he did walk out on the kids. Refused to support them financially and emotionally, walked out of their lives and hasn't looked back. He doesn't see them, or phone them. He does not care what they are doing, or cares how they are - physically or emotionally....but... APPARENTLY THAT IS NOT WALKING OUT ON THE KIDS? I am totally confused......totally gobsmacked....totally floored....what has happened to the man I knew so well? The man who loved his kids beyond.........
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That is horrible that these men just left the kids. I am very sorry!!
My h is being the extreme opposite. He said today " you should consider going back to school and let me take care and f the kids. No reason for you to work Harder. You are still in your 30's and should invest your time while you still can. You can see the kids on your off time"
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Time to start a new thread, Rossbren. :)
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New thread
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8868.0